Alcohol + Handgun: Hypothetical Question

[Guest MemphisMan]

Scenario 1:  I drink two beers at home, then about an hour later I get into my truck with my handgun for a quick run to Lowes. I am stopped, given a breathalyser test because alcohol is smelled on my breath, but the results show that the content in my blood is below the legal limit for driving. Is there a problem due to my handgun?

 

Scenario 2: Same as the first, but instead of being stopped, I shoot someone in the Lowes parking lot in clear self defense. I am assuming that in this case, I am sure to lose the likely lawsuit at best and found guilty of manslaughter at worst.

 

I'm not much of a drinker but I enjoy an occasional beer and am curious.

Edited June 28, 2015 by MemphisMan

[R_Bert]

If you have to ask those questions here, then you already know the answer.

 

I would suggest a smoother start to this forum.

Edited June 29, 2015 by R_Bert

[Erik88]

A cop can charge you with DUI even if you're under the legal limit. If you have your gun on you AND you've been drinking me thinks you're asking for trouble. It's going to depend on what type of mood the cop is in honestly. 

[Oh Shoot]

There is no BAC established for possession of firearm while under the influence.

 

If you're involved in a shooting, of course every aspect of that would be investigated. If you are not charged with anything, there's always still the distinct possibility of a civil suit, whether you had any alcohol in your system or not.

 

It's not possible to completely predict a certain outcome of either scenario.

 

- OS

[Omega]

While I would not chance that particular scenario, I wouldn't let the fact that I had a beer or two keep me from defending me or mine. I wonder if anyone who was involved in a home invasión (home owner) ever been tested for alcohol and drugs, and been charged if positive? I would think that self defense would trump that charge.

[EssOne]

The homeowner might be required to take a blood alcohol or drug test until the police get it all sorted out and figure out what happened. But a homeowner cannot predict when a home invasion will occur and there is no law against him drinking in his home. So if it is a righteous shooting fired in defense against a real home invasion, my personal conviction is that the alcohol will be a moot point since it is not unlawful to possess or consume at that time and place.

Edited June 29, 2015 by EssOne

[300winmag]

Can you still be charged with DWI in Tennessee without a breathalyzer or other BAC test if an officer believes you are intoxicated?  I'm assuming an officer could charge you with DWI just based on other types of evidence, such as alcohol smell, slurred speech, etc.  There are some folks out there who would be intoxicated even though they are under whatever the BAC limit is.

Edited June 29, 2015 by 300winmag

[Pain103]

Yes you can be charge with DUI without a breathalyzer or blood test. Happens all the time people refuse to take the test and get charged with the refusal also. The .08 BAC limit is a presumptive level where the law assumes you are impaired. You can be DUI with under that level but typically you see someone who is hammered with a low BAC or has drugs in their system along with it.

 

To the OP there is no limit on how much alcohol you can have in your system and be in possession of a handgun. Any is illegal along with any controlled substances. If you are grown you take your own chances. I prefer to drink my occasional beer at the house away from all the idiots out and about.

[10-Ring]

You are inviting trouble when you are out and Scott intoxicated and carrying a gun. Since we all have a different definition of the word "couple" a good rule of thumb would be to stay home after you pop the top. I knew a fella that was involved in a SD shooting while highly intoxicated, things did not go well for him legally. Basically he perceived the guy that he shot at as a threat when he wasn't, had he been sober there would have been no altercation. I believe that it would be irresponsible to propose that it's ever appropriate to mix guns and alcohol.

[Fallguy]

Basically just as the law "presumes" you are in imminent fear of death or serious bodily harm if someone breaks into your house, even though it might can be proven later you weren't, also just as you can have that fear away from home.  The law "presumes" you are under the influence (as far as driving) if your BAC is 0.08% or higher.  But that doesn't mean you can't be charged at lower percentage, just that it might be a harder case for the state to prove.

 

No as far as it applies to the carry of a handgun, it is OS said there is no established BAC, it would basically be up to the officers discretion as far as if  you are under the influence as far as the position of a firearm goes.  Seems like most LEOs I've seen comment on this have said in their opinion if you can legally operate a vehicle you can be armed.  But that is just that individual office'rs opinion.

[DaveTN]

Scenario 1:  I drink two beers at home, then about an hour later I get into my truck with my handgun for a quick run to Lowes. I am stopped, given a breathalyser test because alcohol is smelled on my breath, but the results show that the content in my blood is below the legal limit for driving. Is there a problem due to my handgun?

Depends on if the Officer thinks you are okay to be carrying and takes the responsibility of letting you drive off armed. A .05 -.07 BAC tied with whatever he observes that made him test you probably won’t end well for you.
 

Scenario 2: Same as the first, but instead of being stopped, I shoot someone in the Lowes parking lot in clear self defense. I am assuming that in this case, I am sure to lose the likely lawsuit at best and found guilty of manslaughter at worst.

Explain how you feel you can be found guilty of manslaughter in a “clear self-defense case”? I put that in the same category as those that worry about what kind of ammo they carry; its homicide and its justified or it’s not. Your level of intoxication will only be an issue if the Officers or the DA feel it’s not justified.

Are you going to voluntarily submit to a BAC test after a shooting in the parking lot? I’m guessing when you call your attorney he will tell you “No, not unless you have had nothing to drink”. Unless the cops are pursuing a homicide case against you and get a warrant to take blood; how will anyone in a civil case know your BAC level? And if the cops are pursuing a case; unless you are very well off there probably won’t be much left to get in a civil case if you stay out of prison.
 

I'm not much of a drinker but I enjoy an occasional beer and am curious.

I won’t drive even after one beer; same with carrying a gun.

[Jonnin]

1) if you concealed it, you have about a 99.999% chance of the cop never knowing about your gun so long as you behave like a normal human being.  However, in TN, it is not legal to carry a gun under *any* influence, so you would indeed have a problem if he saw it.

 

2) actually, you might be in better shape here.  The law prevents prosecution of the shooter in a valid self defense shoot.   ???  Not sure how it would play out, but I think you would get raked over the coals for having been drinking regardless.   You do not want to be in this situation, no matter if you come out clean... you just don't want this.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Jonnin

[Caster]

Drink all you want......at home. Drinking while in public is a gamble. Drinking in public with a weapon is just stupid.

[tnhawk]

The only case I can recall of someone with a HCP using a handgun after consuming alcohol didn't end very well for anyone.  Two families lost husbands and fathers.  One dead.  One in prison. 

 

The option is choose one, alcohol or weapon.  Each can be a problem.  Together, they lead to serious problems.

Edited June 29, 2015 by tnhawk

[Chucktshoes]

I take a slightly different position. Legalities aside, if you having a few drinks makes you unsafe around a firearm, you were already unsafe around one independent of the other. It is best to find out which and eliminate it from your life.

[DaveTN]

I take a slightly different position. Legalities aside, if you having a few drinks makes you unsafe around a firearm, you were already unsafe around one independent of the other. It is best to find out which and eliminate it from your life.

Just like with DUI by the time many people find out; it’s too late someone is dead and they are on their way to prison.

[Chucktshoes]

Just like with DUI by the time many people find out; it’s too late someone is dead and they are on their way to prison.

I would agree and don't see any conflict in our statements. I would even go so far to say that your statement can be used to support my position.

[chances R]

I take a slightly different position. Legalities aside, if you having a few drinks makes you unsafe around a firearm, you were already unsafe around one independent of the other. It is best to find out which and eliminate it from your life.

 

pretty broad statement.  Would you make the same statement in regards to driving?

[Chucktshoes]

pretty broad statement. Would you make the same statement in regards to driving?

While analogous in some ways, it isn't really an equal comparison.

Alcohol has a diminishing effect on the human body in two ways. It diminishes judgment and it diminishes motor control, both fine and gross. I would rate the loss of those three things thusly.

Diminished fine motor control
Diminished judgement
Loss of fine motor control/diminished gross motor control
Loss of judgement
Loss of gross motor control

The primary issue folks have with mixing alcohol and firearms is diminished judgement. If you drink to the point that your judgement is diminished enough to make you a danger with a gun, you are a danger without a gun. Many folks have diminished fine motor control due to myriad reasons such as physical maladies or age. That doesn't make them inherently unsafe with a firearm, just maybe less accurate. One doesn't really become physically unsafe to handle a firearm until they begin to lose gross motor control.

Cars are a bit different. Operating a car can become dangerous for others as soon as one experiences diminished fine motor control. Slowed reaction times, the ability to keep hands steady/feet firmly on the pedal with the proper amount of force. These are all examples of diminished fine motor skills that make not just drunk folks dangerous in a car, but seniors or folks with certain disabilities as well. One may be physically unable to safely operate a car well before one loses the ability to make good judgements on how to safely operate it.

*For simplicity's sake let me say that I am considering the reduction of mental acuity in the ability to process and react to stimuli to be a symptom of diminished physical ability as opposed to a symptom of diminished judgment. Diminished judgement is the increased likelihood of engaging in "hey y'all, watch this!" type of behavior.*

[chances R]

I agree with a lot of what you say except the broad and I think unsubstantiated statement that alcohol impaired gun handling is implied to be indicative of poor sober gun handling skills. It may certainly be the case for some, magnifying poor skills. However in some I would think it is apples and oranges.

[Chucktshoes]

I agree with a lot of what you say except the broad and I think unsubstantiated statement that alcohol impaired gun handling is implied to be indicative of poor sober gun handling skills. It may certainly be the case for some, magnifying poor skills. However in some I would think it is apples and oranges.

I think you slightly misunderstood what I was saying. If your gun handling becomes unsafe due to alcohol impairment, you are unsafe with either the gun by itself or you are unsafe with the alcohol by itself. I recommended figuring out which one it was and eliminating that. The implication was more along the lines of folks having more of an issue with alcohol than they think.

[Omega]

I think you slightly misunderstood what I was saying. If your gun handling becomes unsafe due to alcohol impairment, you are unsafe with either the gun by itself or you are unsafe with the alcohol by itself. I recommended figuring out which one it was and eliminating that. The implication was more along the lines of folks having more of an issue with alcohol than they think.

I'm a bit lost here, I can handle my weapon very well sober, I can handle my liquor well enough, but I don't mix the two. Of course I don't drink to excess either so maybe that's why your point may be lost on me. When I drink more than a beer or two I make it a point to not handle or carry my weapon or drive, even if I feel no effects. Not that I feel I may be unsafe, it's that I don't want to put myself in a position where someone else gets to decide whether I am safe or not.

[Pete123]

Since we all have a different definition of the word "couple" a good rule of thumb would be to stay home after you pop the top.

 

This is what I was thinking when I read the original post because of a few things:

 

1. wondering about having more than one beer when driving and having a gun.

2. Having a couple of beers before a trip to Lowes would lead me to suspect a day time trip.  Most people very seldom drink multiple drinks during the day.  

3. Based on the previous two items, I would be concerned that it wasn't just two beers and that a full two hours had lapsed.  

 

I no longer drink.  One of the reasons I quit is that after a couple, my mind started telling me things that weren't true.  For example, I would think I hadn't consumed nearly as much as I had.

[suspiciousmind]

There have been times that I had a beer or two over the course of a few hours that I realized I needed something at the corner store(milk, dip, whatever) and I felt fine with going armed. A beer or two over that period of time does nothing to me.

Do I do it frequently? No. Maybe once or twice in the past. Usually I just stay at home and wait til the morn.

Basic rule of thumb for my life is if I've consumed a sip or plan on doing so, the gun stays at home.

[Mike.357]

if I have to wonder what might happen to me if I am found with a gun I pretty much don't go.

 

I don't mind a beer or two and some .22 plinking here at the estate.  Crucify me if you must.