Bad guy with gun shot by good guy with gun

[Omega]

 

I don't know if you saw this but we won't have to worry about Sharpton and the like jumping in on this. I was on the KPD Facebook page and saw this exchange between a race baiter and the KPD.

 

• Rebeccs Parker Swiger I am rereading the statement and something is puzzling to me. It says the friend was outside watching, How was his life in danger then? He had nothing to do with what is going on inside the building. He decided to get his gun and shoot. This is no justice. He needs to be prosecuted for something. the law was interpreted to protect white shooting black. Go figure.

  Like · Reply · 1 hr

 

Knoxville Police Department Ms. Swiger, The male friend, who shot the suspect while he was committing the armed robbery with a fully loaded handgun, was African American.

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  https://www.facebook.com/KnoxvillePD

 

Epic.

[Garufa]

Looks like the shooter will get popped after all...he's a felon:  http://www.knoxnews.com/news/watchful-eye/robbery-suspects-killer-idd-as-felon-with-a-lengthy-record_49617640

[Oh Shoot]

Looks like the shooter will get popped after all...he's a felon:  http://www.knoxnews.com/news/watchful-eye/robbery-suspects-killer-idd-as-felon-with-a-lengthy-record_49617640

 

Still can't bust him with the TN statutes, but could see if Feds want to do him.

 

edit: I guess they could get him from the TN part if they give the gun back to him and he takes it then!

 

- OS

Edited June 18, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[bronco302]

Kind of a shame really, at least in this case He still did the right thing.


Joe W.

[Lumber_Jack]

Looks like the mother is pushing for charges

http://controversialtimes.com/news/mother-of-armed-robber-wants-the-good-samaritan-who-shot-killed-her-son-charged-video/

EDIT: appears old link from local story already discussed. Carry On Edited June 19, 2015 by Lumber_Jack

[btq96r]

So, if he hadn't been in the car when seeing this, but rather was carrying without a permit from Point A to Point B and walked in during a robbery in progress, he would be covered for the shoot, but prosecutable under carrying without a permit, right?

[Spots]

Even if he had been illegally packing while walking down the street in public rather than having it in his vehicle, he'd be immune from prosecution for it under 39-17-1322.

- OS

So, if he hadn't been in the car when seeing this, but rather was carrying without a permit from Point A to Point B and walked in during a robbery in progress, he would be covered for the shoot, but prosecutable under carrying without a permit, right?

No see the above quoted law from Oh shoots post. Even if you care carrying illegally, without a permit, you can't be prosecuted if you use it in self defense. My understanding is that is because the way the laws are worded. In Tennessee carrying a firearm is a crime. You are still breaking the law with an HCP, but the HCP is a justifiable and recognized defense to that law. The same goes for carrying without a permit then using in self defense. The fact that you used it in self defense is a recognized defense to carrying the firearm

Sent from the backwoods

[btq96r]

No see the above quoted law from Oh shoots post. Even if you care carrying illegally, without a permit, you can't be prosecuted if you use it in self defense. My understanding is that is because the way the laws are worded. In Tennessee carrying a firearm is a crime. You are still breaking the law with an HCP, but the HCP is a justifiable and recognized defense to that law. The same goes for carrying without a permit then using in self defense. The fact that you used it in self defense is a recognized defense to carrying the firearm

Sent from the backwoods

 

Can't say I like that.  In my mind, carrying without a permit should be separate and prosecutable, even if using the weapon is justified...unless the state has a Constitutional Carry law in effect.

[Oh Shoot]

No see the above quoted law from Oh shoots post. Even if you care carrying illegally, without a permit, you can't be prosecuted if you use it in self defense. My understanding is that is because the way the laws are worded. In Tennessee carrying a firearm is a crime. You are still breaking the law with an HCP, but the HCP is a justifiable and recognized defense to that law. The same goes for carrying without a permit then using in self defense. The fact that you used it in self defense is a recognized defense to carrying the firearm

Sent from the backwoods

 

Yeah, like that.

 

Even though you'd technically be breaking the law up until the time of the shoot, you would have had to have been caught for it separate from the incident. IOW, the shooting itself can't be used as the discovery of the infraction or whatever. Of course, being a felon, it was also illegal in his car, but same rules, you can't get a conviction out of an "assumption", however logical.

 

Now, I assume they took the gun for purposes of the investigation -- but since he's a felon, if they gave it back to him and he took it, I guess he could be immediately busted. Then again, since he is a felon, I imagine they won't even give it back at all, as that would be against federal law.

 

edit: And who knows, maybe local LEA has contacted ATF about it to see if they want to prosecute him .. he was indeed clearly culpable under federal law, good shoot or not.

 

- OS

Edited June 22, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Spots]

Can't say I like that. In my mind, carrying without a permit should be separate and prosecutable, even if using the weapon is justified...unless the state has a Constitutional Carry law in effect.

The problem would be a shooting just like this. It is completely legal to carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle in TN. But once you exited the vehicle to defend someone else holding the gun you could be prosecuted if it was seen as a separate law, because then you would be carrying outside a vehicle without a permit. Of course all this would be avoided if TN would actually follow the Constitution and quit charging people $115 and a forced class to excersie their right, turning it into a prvielege

Sent from the backwoods

[chances R]

The Knoxville paper today had an article explaining the law. Also revealed gun used was confiscated and no record of it being stolen

[Oh Shoot]

The problem would be a shooting just like this. It is completely legal to carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle in TN. But once you exited the vehicle to defend someone else holding the gun you could be prosecuted if it was seen as a separate law, because then you would be carrying outside a vehicle without a permit. ..

 

Well, the pass in 39-17-1322 has been around a lot longer than the car carry thing of course, looks like it goes back in present form at least to 1994.

 

It seems to just be a nod to the fact that self defense trumps any of the other violations in the Part, most of which are just non-violent ones, and most are only misdemeanors to boot. But yeah, it's as hypocritical as it is noble.

 

- OS

Edited June 22, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[btq96r]

The problem would be a shooting just like this. It is completely legal to carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle in TN. But once you exited the vehicle to defend someone else holding the gun you could be prosecuted if it was seen as a separate law, because then you would be carrying outside a vehicle without a permit. Of course all this would be avoided if TN would actually follow the Constitution and quit charging people $115 and a forced class to excersie their right, turning it into a prvielege

Sent from the backwoods

 

This shooting I'm fine with.  The guy followed the letter of the law by having the gun in his vehicle, and not taking it out of the vehicle until he saw a threat.  Had another person been carrying without a permit while say, walking from his house to the store to get milk or something, then came upon the incident and acted, it still doesn't negate that he was carrying without a permit.

 

I get that Constitutional Carry is the answer, but while we have a law on hand, and one that would clearly be upheld by even this conservative court it should be respected. 

[Oh Shoot]

This shooting I'm fine with.  The guy followed the letter of the law by having the gun in his vehicle, and not taking it out of the vehicle until he saw a threat.  Had another person been carrying without a permit while say, walking from his house to the store to get milk or something, then came upon the incident and acted, it still doesn't negate that he was carrying without a permit.

 

I get that Constitutional Carry is the answer, but while we have a law on hand, and one that would clearly be upheld by even this conservative court it should be respected. 

 

The law on hand is 39-17-1322, which negates being charged under 39-17-1307 for carrying without a permit (or any other violation in the 39-17-13x Part).

 

I used to joke that if you're gonna carry illegally, best to try and off a bad guy in a good shoot. ;)

 

As I mentioned, this guy still broke Federal law, though.

 

- OS

Edited June 22, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[btq96r]

The law on hand is 39-17-1322, which negates being charged under 39-17-1307 for carrying without a permit (or any other violation in the 39-17-13x Part).

 

I used to joke that if you're gonna carry illegally, best to try and off a bad guy in a good shoot. ;)

 

As I mentioned, this guy still broke Federal law, though.

 

- OS

 

True.  Though, I'd chock this up to legislative ignorance more than anything else.  At best, that sounds like a law to stop overzealous prosecution before stand your ground laws came into play.

 

And I missed the he's a felon part, which is a big deal.  A convicted felon carrying a gun and avoiding prosecution because of a law that would probably be changed if our legislators knew half as much as we do here.  Great fuel for the anti-gunners.

 

It does bring up that there should be a restoration of rights process even for felons.  If this guy has been on the up and up for long enough to demonstrate he's moved on in life, his past shouldn't be held against him.  Where that magic number is, and if this guy is at it yet, I'm not sure.

[Oh Shoot]

  A convicted felon carrying a gun and avoiding prosecution because of a law that would probably be changed if our legislators knew half as much as we do here. ...

 

Well, don't be real surprised if the Feds decide to pick him up. Hard to believe local LE didn't notify them.

 

- OS

[chances R]

The paper article seems to lead me to think the feds are not interested.....leaving it to the state.
I can certainly live with the outcome and the current laws. Rare circumstances indeed. If anything needs to be changed it would be the sign/force of law issue.

[Clod Stomper]

The feds probably won't mess with this one. There's too much chance for jury nullification. The guy didn't actually do anything wrong, was just breaking a law by picking up a weapon. I suppose he could have been "in possession" while he was alone in the car with the pistol. But he may well have saved someone's life.

Just trying to see it as a jury of regular folks might.

[JRWnTN]

Several years ago (10+), also in Knoxville, a clerk used a shotgun to shoot and kill an armed robber, after he left the store.  No charges ever made, state or federal. 

 

The US Attorney has bigger fish go after than a felon who shoots an armed robber.

[Oh Shoot]

Followup:

 

http://wate.com/2015/07/13/deceased-knoxville-robbery-suspects-mother-holds-candlelight-vigil-still-seeking-justice/

 

- OS

[mikegideon]

The story should end with the shooter being presented with a cash award and certificate of appreciation. I'd contribute to a fund set up for that purpose... And just imagine the popping noises of liberal heads exploding all over the country! Win win, amiright?

 

So, what's stopping us? I'll cough a $20, and will up it to $100 if Obama mentions it on TV.

[chances R]

Looks like to me she got what exactly what she is asking for.........justice was served.