Gas piston conversion kit

[Guest GLOCK2340]

I have deicided to go with a gas piston conversion kit from Bushmaster for my bushmaster flattop 556. Does anyone have any experience installing them? Is there anything that I should be weary of? Are there any special tools that I would need? Any info would be great, thanks in advance!!

[Guest gcrookston]

I've not seen one work right yet, from the HK 416 on down. I think the Gas Impingement system is hard to improve upon. Let me now how it goes for you...

Edited November 11, 2008 by gcrookston

[Guest GLOCK2340]

What kinds of problems have seen gcrookston? I read as many reviews as I could find on the net about them and they are positive on the piston kit.

[Burboy]

I thought the whole idea of the piston kit was to fix the AR's biggest design flaw.

I must admit I have no experience with any of them but I have read about them a lot as well and they seem to be a good way to go, if you can afford one.

[DavidD]

I thought the whole idea of the piston kit was to fix the AR's biggest design flaw.

Being a newbe to the AR world, what exactly is supposed to be the design flaw?

[Guest sling]

Being a newbe to the AR world, what exactly is supposed to be the design flaw?

The gas system on AR's sucks dookie.

Edited November 13, 2008 by sling
corrected my quickly typed terminology

[DavidD]

The gas piston on AR's sucks dookie.

Ok I'll bite, other than sounding like a worn out truck spring when firing, what is wrong with them?

[Guest sling]

The direct gas impingement system isnt really the most reliable thing on the planet.

Gas impingement uses gas directly from the barrel to cycle the action. The gas goes into the carrier key which drives the bolt backwards. This in turn turns the bolt and the whole shebang moves rearward. Extractor flings the case out and the buffer "old truck" spring pushes the bolt forward again. This whole process dumps all that gas crap into the action... and the bolt face... and the carrier key... and all the nooks and crannies in the bolt. All of this results in these kinds of issues.

Gum up the extractor, causing a failure to extract,

Decelllerate the bolt carrier enough that it won't have enough force to strip off a round and lock into the barrel, or

The bolt won't be able to lock because of the excess amounts of fouling in the lug recesses

So. There is your design flaw. A piston keeps all that s*%# out of the action.

Now, naturally, most civi shooters dont really have these issues because they have the opportunity to clean their weapons at pretty much anytime. GI's... well... hell lets face it. Its pretty inconvenient to have to stop in the middle of a firefight to 'clean the carbon out of your action.'

Edited November 13, 2008 by sling
corrected my spelling.. i type too fast.

[molonlabetn]

Considering that the most likely scenario for any of us to use our personal ARs in a real encounter will probably not even expend an entire magazine... the fouling caused by direct impingement should be #99 on a 100-line list of things to worry about (#100 is whether to wear boxers or briefs during SHTF).

Get gas-piston if you want it... I personally think they are pretty cool, but have zero illusions that they give any tangible advantage unless you are running a suppressed SBR or something (and hate getting a noseful of gas every time you pull the trigger).

[Smith]

I kinda lazy about cleaning, so I like that aspect as well as the fact that it won't get near as hot. That being said, I see them more of a neat add on as opposed to an essential modification. Let's face it, on AR's most folks spend more on accessories than the gun so it's nothing out of the norm. Linda like deciding to get a new set of hand guards or something.

[Guest sling]

Considering that the most likely scenario for any of us to use our personal ARs in a real encounter will probably not even expend an entire magazine... the fouling caused by direct impingement should be #99 on a 100-line list of things to worry about (#100 is whether to wear boxers or briefs during SHTF).

Get gas-piston if you want it... I personally think they are pretty cool, but have zero illusions that they give any tangible advantage unless you are running a suppressed SBR or something (and hate getting a noseful of gas every time you pull the trigger).

+1

Eddie makes a very valid point. Your not in the desert shooting at terrorists... your not in the jungles hunting charlie...

There just really isnt a need. Just another tacti-cool accessory.

[TGO David]

unless you are running a suppressed SBR or something (and hate getting a noseful of gas every time you pull the trigger).

And the combination of a PRI GasBuster charging handle and an adjustable gas block will fix that for a lot cheaper than a piston-driven upper will.

[Guest Mugster]

I have to say, its not powder residue that is the problem in ar's. Its getting gunk in from either mags that get stuff on them or just directly into the ejection port. A little bit of mud or dust in the wrong spot gunks them up in a hurry.

Its not a real robust design, but the direct impingement is not really a factor, imo.

[Guest GLOCK2340]

I realize that the kit is basically a tacticool accessory, and that i just get pleasure out of working on a gun. I have no qualms with the direct inpingment sys., it has worked fine for me, you just have know how to maintain the weapon. When I get it and get it installed I'll try to let you guys know how it works out. Hopefully it will be painless.

[Guest sling]

I realize that the kit is basically a tacticool accessory, and that i just get pleasure out of working on a gun. ess.

And that ladies and gentleman... is all that matters.

[DavidD]

The direct gas impingement system isnt really the most reliable thing on the planet.

Gas impingement uses gas directly from the barrel to cycle the action. The gas goes into the carrier key which drives the bolt backwards. This in turn turns the bolt and the whole shebang moves rearward. Extractor flings the case out and the buffer "old truck" spring pushes the bolt forward again. This whole process dumps all that gas crap into the action... and the bolt face... and the carrier key... and all the nooks and crannies in the bolt. All of this results in these kinds of issues.

Gum up the extractor, causing a failure to extract,

Decelllerate the bolt carrier enough that it won't have enough force to strip off a round and lock into the barrel, or

The bolt won't be able to lock because of the excess amounts of fouling in the lug recesses

So. There is your design flaw. A piston keeps all that s*%# out of the action.

Now, naturally, most civi shooters dont really have these issues because they have the opportunity to clean their weapons at pretty much anytime. GI's... well... hell lets face it. Its pretty inconvenient to have to stop in the middle of a firefight to 'clean the carbon out of your action.'

Thanks Sling, that makes perfect sense. As far as the OP, if you got it, spend it! I'd say it sounds like a better investment than the golf ball launcher I was looking at the other night.

[Guest GLOCK2340]

Alright, I I got the conversion kit from my wife for xmas!!! I finally got it installed this evening, but have yet to test it. I hope I got it right...... When I do test it I will give an update. I must say that if anyone else is thinkin of gettin this kit be prepared for a little improvisation b/c the instructions included are quite vague and a little confusing as are the pics.

[Guest gcrookston]

What kinds of problems have seen gcrookston? I read as many reviews as I could find on the net about them and they are positive on the piston kit.

I saw a catistophic failure at on target in Murfreesboro of a POF system. A friend in North Carolina retrofitted a Bushmaster system that after much tinkering and several returns to the manufacturer he has yet to get function reliably. Another friend of mine in Louisiana purchased, shot and sold his 416 upper stating he couldn't get two entire mags through it without a malfunction. These are the only first hand accounts I've had and 3 for 3 none were positive.

I do not put weight in 2nd hand accounts, but when I receive them first hand I take notice.

I was very interested in these 2 years ago, but have no interest in them now.

My brother and many of my buddies have used M4's and M16 in real world conflicts, my son has used one on two tours in Iraq. These people have experienced no problems with their weapon. Which begs the question: what are we trying to fix?

I myself have put 10s of thousands of round through various types of ARs in 20+ years in a civilian function and have only had one failure in all that time (in a Bushmaster).

This exhausts my knowledge on this subject.

Edited December 26, 2008 by gcrookston

[Guest GLOCK2340]

I finally got to test out my Bushie w/ the piston kit. After using multiple types of ammo, in pmags and regular bustmaster ar mags, I could not get it to work right. Apparently the bolt is pushed back far enough to extract the casing of the first shot, however not far enough to grab the next shell out of the mag and push it into the chamber. I suppose that maybe I did something wrong in the process of building it, but I sure can't find what it is. I am gonna go over it with friend that is a gunsmith, hopefully we can work out the kinks!! Gcrookston, is this similar to the probs that your friend had with his kit? Do you know his exact malfunction with the kit? Thanks

[DavidD]

Thanks for posting Glock2340. Keep us informed of any progress you make.

[Daniel]

I saw a catistophic failure at on target in Murfreesboro of a POF system. A friend in North Carolina retrofitted a Bushmaster system that after much tinkering and several returns to the manufacturer he has yet to get function reliably. Another friend of mine in Louisiana purchased, shot and sold his 416 upper stating he couldn't get two entire mags through it without a malfunction. These are the only first hand accounts I've had and 3 for 3 none were positive.

I do not put weight in 2nd hand accounts, but when I receive them first hand I take notice.

I was very interested in these 2 years ago, but have no interest in them now.

My brother and many of my buddies have used M4's and M16 in real world conflicts, my son has used one on two tours in Iraq. These people have experienced no problems with their weapon. Which begs the question: what are we trying to fix?

I myself have put 10s of thousands of round through various types of ARs in 20+ years in a civilian function and have only had one failure in all that time (in a Bushmaster).

This exhausts my knowledge on this subject.

Only issues with the weapon is that you do have to clean it. You do not clean it in the middle of a fire fight. You do clean it daily ( at least a brush off of bolt and bcg). You also give it proper maintenance on a schedule as required.

[Guest Astra900]

I see the AR's gas system as a 2 edged sword. It does crap where it eats, but no moving piston means no harmonic vibration; Just another reason an AR is so ridiculously accurate.

It's as close to impossible as you can get; To make properly built AK jam, but that pistion slapping back and forth does NOTHING for accuracy. Ever see a high speed camera view of an AK firing? That sucker is flexing all over the place.

I used to really grudge the Stoner design, then I grew up, stopped being lazy and cleaned/maintained it right, as well as feeding it a good healthy diet. I reload with AA 2520 ball powder, and I get VERY little fouling. I only clean it if I have shot more than 100 rounds and it has NEVER jammed. I personally don't see the need of a piston conversion anymore. I used to think that way. I suppose if I were REALLY gonna put one through the wringer and my life depended on it, I might consider it, but Falluja is one place my scary white a22 will never be found:D