H Buffer or Not?

[EssOne]

I have a couple of M4geries, a PSA and an LMT. I've upgraded the buffer springs in both rifles with the M4/CAR 15 Extra Power Buffer Spring from Tactical Springs.com. This is the spring with the red end and carries stock number 820-001. Both carbines have standard Milspec buffers in them provided by the manufacturers.

 

Should I be using an H Buffer in these guns? If so which one? Any help appreciated.

 

EssOne

[Photoguy67]

I guess my first question would be, why do you think you need one? What are the rifles doing they should not be or not doing they should be?

[btq96r]

I use an H2 and Spike's T2 buffer in my two AR's.  Not sure which one I like better.  They are in carbine length gas systems; H2 in an open gas 16" and the T2 in a tuned gas 10.5".  Maybe one day I'll get an itch to swap them out and see how it feels.

 

Someone may come along and get über technical with things like what BCG you use, gas port size, ect...but an H2 or T2 covers all possible worlds for a carbine or mid-length system for me.

Edited June 14, 2015 by btq96r

[EssOne]

I guess my first question would be, why do you think you need one? What are the rifles doing they should not be or not doing they should be?

That's the point. I don't know if I should be using one or not. The rifles perform perfectly with a standard carbine buffer, but since I've tinkered with the physics of the recoil system by changing springs, I'm just wondering if by continuing to use the standard carbine buffer I might be headed in the direction of performance problems or even damaging the rifles. I'm using Federal XM193 and IMI M193 loads.

[Ted S.]

Be careful changing to "extra power" springs. I did that once. Once. Turned out my BCG wouldn't lock back to the bolt catch when the mag was empty. I only use standard or low powered springs now.

 

There really is no reason to change to a heavy buffer at all unless you have cycling issues, and if you do it's best to address the gassing issue you have rather than changing out the buffer. Heavy buffers don't fix problems, they only mask them.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Ted S.

[ehull20000]

Ted S. nailed it.  If your gun works don't mess with it. 

 

Go to the range, shoot a bunch of different ammo with different magazines and you will find out if you have an issue.  If your gun doesn't work, go back to the spring that used to work.    

 

If you just like to tinker then an AR-15 can be a ton of fun.  Playing with BCG weight, buffer weight, spring power, gas port size, gas system length, ammo type, and barrel length all can be used to tune the machine to work better (or worse).   

[EssOne]

Thanks for the replies, Gents. I was able to contact a friend in our club who is a Master CMP Instructor and armorer and he pretty well echoed the answers in responses #5 and #6. Here's what he said in an Email response:

 

" You are well served with the buffer you presently have. If you ever go to a 77 or use suppressor , you "might" get better service from an H. But I would not worry a bit using what you have installed presently ."

 

Thanks again for taking the time to consider my issue. I really appreciate the replies.

 

EssOne

Edited June 14, 2015 by EssOne

[Dolomite_supafly]

H3, and all the other buffers, were created to correct the symptoms of an over gassed AR which is an issue in most modern ARs. And believe me when I say that most ARs are over gassed, even with an H3 buffer, because being over gassed has nothing to do with the weight of the buffer and everything to do with the port size. Adding all the weight in the world will not fix a port that is too large because it is the port size that determines when a gun unlocks, not the buffer.

 

The BEST setup is the lightest buffer you can use with a weapon that is NOT over gassed. Because most manufacturers use larger gas ports thinking it helps reliability an adjustable gas block is often needed correct the root issue of being over gassed. An overweight buffer is only used to mask the issue, not correct it. An over gassed gun, even with a heavy buffer, will have a lot of symptoms. Some of the symptoms are they run dirtier, they run hotter, they wear quicker, they break more often, they have more felt recoil and they throw more crud into the shooter's face (especially with a silencer).

 

It is often a vicious cycle, especially with 300 Blackout. Someone installs a barrel with the correct port and the gun runs great and is reliable. Then someone else comes along and tells them to install an H3 buffer to make the already reliable gun more reliable. The owner installs the H3 buffer and the gun no longer is reliable so the person who recommended the H3 buffer tells them to drill the port to a larger size to make the gun reliable again. Then the gun that was reliable before now begins to suffer from new problems from being over gassed like the excessive crud in the receiver, excessive parts wear, excessive heat and more felt recoil. I have seen that exact scenario play out dozens and dozens of times on another board I moderate on. If a gun needs an H3 buffer it also needs an adjustable gas block because the barrel port is WAY too big.

 

I know some that run buffers that do not weigh 1.5 ounces with an adjustable gas block and those guns are 100% reliable with less felt recoil than most ARs.

 

My guns run cleaner than any other AR I have ever seen. The reason is they are gassed correctly. An AR should not need to be cleaned every couple of hundred rounds to be reliable.

[EssOne]

H3, and all the other buffers, were created to correct the symptoms of an over gassed AR which is an issue in most modern ARs. And believe me when I say that most ARs are over gassed, even with an H3 buffer, because being over gassed has nothing to do with the weight of the buffer and everything to do with the port size. Adding all the weight in the world will not fix a port that is too large because it is the port size that determines when a gun unlocks, not the buffer.

 

The BEST setup is the lightest buffer you can use with a weapon that is NOT over gassed. Because most manufacturers use larger gas ports thinking it helps reliability an adjustable gas block is often needed correct the root issue of being over gassed. An overweight buffer is only used to mask the issue, not correct it. An over gassed gun, even with a heavy buffer, will have a lot of symptoms. Some of the symptoms are they run dirtier, they run hotter, they wear quicker, they break more often, they have more felt recoil and they throw more crud into the shooter's face (especially with a silencer).

 

It is often a vicious cycle, especially with 300 Blackout. Someone installs a barrel with the correct port and the gun runs great and is reliable. Then someone else comes along and tells them to install an H3 buffer to make the already reliable gun more reliable. The owner installs the H3 buffer and the gun no longer is reliable so the person who recommended the H3 buffer tells them to drill the port to a larger size to make the gun reliable again. Then the gun that was reliable before now begins to suffer from new problems from being over gassed like the excessive crud in the receiver, excessive parts wear, excessive heat and more felt recoil. I have seen that exact scenario play out dozens and dozens of times on another board I moderate on. If a gun needs an H3 buffer it also needs an adjustable gas block because the barrel port is WAY too big.

 

I know some that run buffers that do not weigh 1.5 ounces with an adjustable gas block and those guns are 100% reliable with less felt recoil than most ARs.

 

My guns run cleaner than any other AR I have ever seen. The reason is they are gassed correctly. An AR should not need to be cleaned every couple of hundred rounds to be reliable.

Thank you for an excellent reply.

 

EssOne

[mikegideon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=575Q0O41u5s

[Dolomite_supafly]

You can look at the Bravo and tell it is gassed near perfectly, the others not so much.

[Dolomite_supafly]

In a perfect world you want the bolt, carrier and buffer to stop and begin its return without hitting the bottom of the receiver extension. But the distance between picking up the next round and the dead stop is such a small amount, less than 1", that it is nearly impossible to do. You probably could but as soon as the gun gets a little dirty the bolt will no longer lock back. So the next best thing is to tune it so the bolt comes back with the least amount of force necessary for it to be reliable.

 

Now the AK, for comparison, has at least 1.75" of travel past the magazine so it is very easy to tune the rifle so the carrier/bolt does not impact the rear trunion. And ALL AKs are over gassed which contributes significantly to felt recoil, just like over gassed ARs, but where the AR has a very small reliability window the AK has a very large reliability window. You can get an AK setup to run under a concept called "constant recoil", where the bolt and carrier are only working against the spring pressure without hitting anything to stop it, it totally changes the feel of the AK. An AK tuned this way feels amazing because the normal clunky feeling an AK is gone and replaced with extremely smooth.

[patrick28]

I always put a heavy buffer in a rly short ar pistol, but if it's going fpr precision type rifle Id use an adjustable gas block amd a milspec buffer, thats all you need to notice a difference