Best bang for the buck...

[molonlabetn]

I'm itching to jump on the NFA bandwagon now... have been for awhile, actually. I'm not sure if I should keep saving up for a transferrable M16, or go ahead and 'settle' for a suppressed SBR (for about 1/10 the cost). It would be many months before I could afford the MG, probably late spring or summer next year. On the other side of the coin, though, either way I suppose I'm looking at a few month wait on the ATF...

Thoughts? Would it really be worth it to make an investment in a full-auto? I can't see myself really using it that much (but when I did, it would be SO COOL)... I'd really just like another rifle before the end of the year. I haven't bought anything in forever, trying to budget for this; but I'm starting to think that I could get alot more equipment, training and ammo for the money... the only difference being the rate-of-fire...

I guess I just need a new toy sooner than later, it's pretty boring around here yanno.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Think about it this way if you get a fully you can do anything you want to it including SBR'n it without another tax stamp. Course the "muffler" is extra ;-D I really just dont see the appeal in SBR'n a rifle for the costs involved and no actual gain except for the "shrinkage"...course I might change my mind one of these days. I couldnt afford an M16 so I went the M11/9 route since you can mod the beejeezus out of them to make a useable subgun.

[TGO David]

I really just dont see the appeal in SBR'n a rifle for the costs involved and no actual gain except for the "shrinkage"

The costs involved are... $200. You're right. It seems super prohibitive when you look at it that way.

As for the actual gains, that falls into the category if "If you have to explain it..."

[Magiccarpetrides]

The costs involved are... $200. You're right. It seems super prohibitive when you look at it that way.

As for the actual gains, that falls into the category if "If you have to explain it..."

lol well lets put it this way. $200 stamp for a short barrel....or $200 stamp for a machinegun That you can SBR anytime you want for no extra charge. Not to mention the machine gun will go up in value while that SBR'd rifle wont. so yeah thats the costs involved. or you can get an AOW shotty and only pay $5.00 for the stamp. As far as "if you have to explain it" well lets see...with a taxed machine gun I can have a bullet hose and SBR it if I want to. With a tax stamp on a silencer I can shoot my guns in the backyard without scaring the neighbors. With a SBR'd rifle I get to say wow...look at this Tacti-cool rifle....its 6" shorter then one you buy off the shelf which is awesome when im practicing clearing rooms in my house lol. Im not saying that SBR'd rifles dont look cool, but for us groupees (non LEO or military) thats all they do.

[TGO David]

lol well lets put it this way. $200 stamp for a short barrel....or $200 stamp for a machinegun

Do you realize that you are trying to make a case against a $200 tax stamp to own a short barrel rifle which are cheap and plentiful by making a case for a $200 tax stamp to own a transferrable full auto weapon which are neither cheap nor plentiful?

It would take someone in the used car business to use logic like that. Oh, wait...

[TGO David]

As far as "if you have to explain it" well lets see...with a taxed machine gun I can have a bullet hose and SBR it if I want to. With a tax stamp on a silencer I can shoot my guns in the backyard without scaring the neighbors. With a SBR'd rifle I get to say wow...look at this Tacti-cool rifle....its 6" shorter then one you buy off the shelf which is awesome when im practicing clearing rooms in my house lol. Im not saying that SBR'd rifles dont look cool, but for us groupees (non LEO or military) thats all they do.

Your ignorance on the matter is astounding, but I don't have the patience or the interest to rehash the benefits of a SBR with someone who apparently knows way more than I do about it. We'll just pretend that I have no experience with the ergonomics or benefits of a shorter barreled AR15 and I will defer to what you've gleaned from reading **** on the Internet.

Cliffs Notes: You win, because I don't care.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that your argument about the lack of practicality of a civilian owning an SBR unless they just want to look cool prancing around their house in 5.11 gear pretty much MURDERS your reason for wanting to own a "bullet hose" (your words) for which the practical applications are undoubtedly limitless. Am I right? Because if a guy with a SBR looks cool to the geeks at the shooting range, then a guy with a fully is going to be a mother****ing GOD among men.

I get it now. You're just wanting the biggest gun-dick that you can afford.

[poak]

When put like you just put it, I think I would prefer to go with a semi-auto SBR and spend the extra cash on the ammo, training, tacticool accessories...

If money were no option, full-auto for sure.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Yes I 100% agree with you on the ergonomics and if you would like to expound on other benefits that I dont know sh*t about because all my information is from the internet that would be excellent to hear about as Eddie probably values your views also...but lets face it neither one of us is gonna be hunting insurgents with our firearms...least hopefully not.

*cliff notes: Is there something you might want to PM me about and get off your chest or are you just going to continually attack posts I make for the hell of it?

[TGO David]

With a tax stamp on a silencer I can shoot my guns in the backyard without scaring the neighbors.

I lied... I'm not done with you yet.

#1. It's not a silencer, it's a suppressor. ergo, my next point...

#2. Unless you're shooting subsonic rounds or shooting a wet suppressor, it's not THAT much quieter and your neighbors are still going to hear it.

#3. Given the choice between having another half pound of metal hanging off the end of a front heavy 16-inch carbine or a more balanced short barreled rifle, I'm going to go with the shorter barrel. WHICH, coincidentally enough, is the reason why most of the people who know about this **** because they get paid to prance around in the 5.11 tacti-cool pants in places where the targets shoot back, choose to have a short barrel rifle to begin with.

But what do I know.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Your ignorance on the matter is astounding, but I don't have the patience or the interest to rehash the benefits of a SBR with someone who apparently knows way more than I do about it. We'll just pretend that I have no experience with the ergonomics or benefits of a shorter barreled AR15 and I will defer to what you've gleaned from reading **** on the Internet.

Cliffs Notes: You win, because I don't care.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that your argument about the lack of practicality of a civilian owning an SBR unless they just want to look cool prancing around their house in 5.11 gear pretty much MURDERS your reason for wanting to own a "bullet hose" (your words) for which the practical applications are undoubtedly limitless. Am I right? Because if a guy with a SBR looks cool to the geeks at the shooting range, then a guy with a fully is going to be a mother****ing GOD among men.

I get it now. You're just wanting the biggest gun-dick that you can afford.

Nice...real professional. obviously you didnt pay attention to the fact I said you can modify an M11/9 to be more then a bullet hose. Im sorry if I think you get more cool points for a machine gun. Your SBR wont go up in value...in theory a machine gun will...so that gives it practical points as a firearms investment.

Again: is there something we need to discuss privately?

[TGO David]

*cliff notes: Is there something you might want to PM me about and get off your chest or are you just going to continually attack posts I make for the hell of it?

I'm just doing my part to cut through misinformation. If my attacking the flawed points your making bothers you, stop making flawed points.

[Mark@Sea]

Probably a dumb question, here, but I have no experience with SBR's. What is the shorter barrel doing to muzzle velocity?

Take it easy on me, I still think a Garand is the shiznits. It may not be 'tacti-cool', but a buttstroke won't break it.

[TGO David]

Nice...real professional. obviously you didnt pay attention to the fact I said you can modify an M11/9 to be more then a bullet hose. Im sorry if I think you get more cool points for a machine gun. Your SBR wont go up in value...in theory a machine gun will...so that gives it practical points as a firearms investment.

I didn't build my rifle to be an investment and could care less if it goes up in value, as I have no intention of selling it. I built it to be a practical defensive carbine for my own enjoyment. You're missing the point of enjoying a firearm if you constantly hamstring yourself with thoughts about how much it's going to be worth when you decide to flip it.

As for professional, I didn't realize we were engaging in business here. I thought we were having a conversation.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I lied... I'm not done with you yet.

#1. It's not a silencer, it's a suppressor. ergo, my next point...

Thanks for the correction

#2. Unless you're shooting subsonic rounds or shooting a wet suppressor, it's not THAT much quieter and your neighbors are still going to hear it.

Depends on where you live and what your suppressing...a .22 is pretty damn quiet.

#3. Given the choice between having another half pound of metal hanging off the end of a front heavy 16-inch carbine or a more balanced short barreled rifle, I'm going to go with the shorter barrel. WHICH, coincidentally enough, is the reason why most of the people who know about this **** because they get paid to prance around in the 5.11 tacti-cool pants in places where the targets shoot back, choose to have a short barrel rifle to begin with.

lol...ok...that goes with ergonomics

But what do I know.

I know you would rather be a jerk to me on a public forum then discuss whatever it is I have done to piss you off in private.

[TGO David]

Probably a dumb question, here, but I have no experience with SBR's. What is the shorter barrel doing to muzzle velocity?

Take it easy on me, I still think a Garand is the shiznits. It may not be 'tacti-cool', but a buttstroke won't break it.

It cuts the velocity a bit with a standard A2 brake. You pick some of it back up with a suppressor and with certain brake designs (like the Noveske KX3) but never enough to really get back to where you'd want to use a SBR to engage a target out at 300yds.

When you shorten the barrel beneath 16-inches, you're effectively relegating that rifle to closer quarters use.

[TGO David]

I know you would rather be a jerk to me on a public forum then discuss whatever it is I have done to piss you off in private.

Perhaps... just perhaps... there's nothing to discuss in private? And thanks for resorting to name-calling (jerk) and trying to make it a personal issue when it's just a matter of point and counter-point.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Molon...I think you will get better information on this from Joe, Dan, or JWP at CCA lol.

[molonlabetn]

I wish money were no option... I wouldn't have even asked

I am only considering an AR/M16 since I could get a .22lr conversion kit or upper for it and enjoy shooting somewhat cheaply. Thought about an MP5 for a bit... but they are more expensive and less versatile.

At this point, the urge to keep my eye on the F/A prize is winning out... Maybe time to sell a few more organs instead of give up on that. I think I'd regret saving this much and not going thru with it...

I imagine it's easier to find a buyer for a Transferable MG than it is to find a buyer for a used SBR, too? If I ever did want to sell it...

[TGO David]

I imagine it's easier to find a buyer for a Transferable MG than it is to find a buyer for a used SBR, too? If I ever did want to sell it...

Go for the gold, man. You know I think that a full auto transferable MG is going to be the bee's knees and I'd own one in a heartbeat if I had the disposable resources to do it.

And yeah, the MG would be a lot better "investment" than the SBR. You can always part out an SBR and retain your lower receiver, sell the rest... but you're going to see depreciation on the value of the parts. That's not going to be the case with the transferable gun. Hell, I see just the receivers going for upwards of $5,000 easily.

Do eet.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Assuming that any looming AWB will actually allow you to sell it in the future. Resale value may not even be a factor. And in that regards... if they start confiscating weapons, I'd rather be out $1.5-2k versus $10k+. Something to also consider, even though it's pure speculation at this point.

[Guest jwp]

If it were me I would scrape together what ever I could and get a transferable machine gun. The M16 is by far the best choice, considering the flexibility of the platform.

[Guest Halfpint]

I still think a Garand is the shiznits. It may not be 'tacti-cool', but a buttstroke won't break it.

I like it! That just may become my new sig line.

I know little about SBR's, other than the fact that I WANT ONE! And I have about five different builds bouncing around in the pachinko machine that best explains my thought processes.

[Daniel]

sbr.

[Guest rdl65]

Go for the gold, man. You know I think that a full auto transferable MG is going to be the bee's knees and I'd own one in a heartbeat if I had the disposable resources to do it.

And yeah, the MG would be a lot better "investment" than the SBR. You can always part out an SBR and retain your lower receiver, sell the rest... but you're going to see depreciation on the value of the parts. That's not going to be the case with the transferable gun. Hell, I see just the receivers going for upwards of $5,000 easily.

Do eet.

If I could buy transferable M16 receivers for $5,000 I would buy 10 of them. Transferable machineguns is the best investment I ever made.

[Paletiger13]

I'd get an sbr. I don't see a need for full auto, but I've never shot full auto either LOL. But I did stay @ a Holiday Inn.