Share your thoughts; which caliber for a quiet bolt gun to complement my suppressor? 7.62x39 vs. .300BO

[Guest mechanically]

Ok TGO, it's time for everyone's favorite game!

"Who wants to spend Mechanically's money vicariously and without negative reprocussion from your better half?"

Here's the scenario for your enjoyment today:

I have a 1st gen Liberty Mystic in jail awaiting transfer. I know the new Mystic X is better, but this guy was $399 out the door with free shipping. $200 to uncle Sam and $50 to my FFL and we're in business. The Mystic is multi-cal. .22 up to many rifle cartridges including .223, 7.62x39, and .300BO among them.

I have a CZ Scorpion Evo which will be the primary device the Mystic lives with. But I'd also like to add a rifle caliber to its functionality. I have a VZ58 chambered in .223 I would dearly like to use, but its 12" barrel is shorter than the required 16" limit for the can in that caliber. I've got a great Mini14, but it seems that a can on that platform may be more trouble than it's worth. And, in the end, I want quiet. That means a bolt or single shot.

The Handi Rifle in 300BO has my attention. I understand they've been tossed in the dumpster by Remington. "Thanks Obama!" But, they're selling for $250 or less at the moment, are already threaded, and add to my already substantial tactical credentials. I don't have anything in this caliber right now. I'm not really an AR guy, and so not very interested in a Blackout AR at the moment, though that could change.

In the other corner, we have the CZ 527 chambered in 7.62x39. I love all things Czech (as you have no doubt deduced already) and would love to own one. I'd have to move the front sight and thread the barrel since it wasn't designed with suppression in mind. It's also more than double the cost of a Handi Rifle. I don't own anything in this caliber either, but would love to have a classic beaver barf VZ58 in it.


So, what to do?

300bo is easy to find in subsonic loadings, but costs a fortune in any speed. 7.62 is cheap all day, except in subsonic. I'd probably have to roll my own. Can I even load 7.62 with something like a 220-250gr projectile to take advantage of subsonic physics?

Maybe just figure out how to find a 7.62 Handi Rifle barrel and have both options? (This is unlikely now that production is nill.)

What will I regret the least in 5 years? What will make me happy? Help me ObiWan, you're my only hope...

[Troutburger]

That's a hard call, but I just don't think you would be pleased with the handi rifle in the long run. Its a cheap gun with cheap plastic and not such a pretty finish. 

 

The CZ would run you about $700 + $200 to cut and thread the barrel? 

 

But its going to be a nice looking gun with nice wood and should shoot well.

 

I am going to throw you a curve ball and suggest the 700 Rem in 300.

 

[Caster]

If you want a Handi rifle, snatch one now.  There won't be any more.  There is no H&R.  You can thank the azzhatz at Remington for screwing up yet ANOTHER once great gun company.  

 

You will NOT regret the CZ.  It's a little bit of $$$ but CZ build an incredible rifle.  I have a 527 Varmint in .223 and it is incredible. 

[Omega]

Of the choices you have listed I voted for the handi.  The 300 Blackout is not as expensive if you roll your own, many projos that will work for it in either pulldowns or cast.  But not a fan of the company right now so I have been eyeballing this one : http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/models.html 

 

 

Yes, that is a threaded barrel; that info is hard to come by in the literature.

[Oh Shoot]

.....

 

Yes, that is a threaded barrel; that info is hard to come by in the literature.

 

?? Click Spec Sheet beside any given model, for the .300blk

 

http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/6968.html

 

"the threaded barrel is cold hammer-forged, resulting in ultra-precise rifling that provides exceptional accuracy, longevity and easy cleaning. (1/2"-28 thread pattern on 5.56 NATO; 5/8"-24 thread pattern on .300 BLK.)"

 

- OS

[Dane]

I'll pitch a curve ball and say look at something in a .22 mag.

[nightrunner]

Like troutburger, while reading it, I was thinking Rem 700 in .300blk. Or if price conscious, a Ruger American.

I'm assuming that when you say 7.62, you are referring to 7.62NATO, or .308win. If so there are a few companies loading subsonic .308. The thing is, it's the same bullet as is in a .300blk and the same amount of powder and same primer just a different case and more empty space left in the larger case, which can sometimes lead to inconsistent ignition. Also you are stuck with using a larger action for the .308win.

For subsonic .308 caliber, whether it's .300blk or .308win, the 208gr AMAX, 220gr SMK, or a heavy cast bullet is what is commonly used.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Problem with reloading 7.62x39 is finding reloadable brass. I reloaded it for a while but resorted to buying Wolf and tearing the ammunition down.

 

If you are going to reload might as well go 300 Blackout. It is a dream for those that reload. And with a silencer you are going to have a very, very quiet setup in 300 Blackout. With 7.62x39 you have to use more powder to get equal velocities, even subsonic, because of the larger case and more powder means more gasses and more gases means more noise.

 

Another reason to avoid 7.62x39 is the twist is generally too slow for heavy bullet at subsonic velocities. And if the twist is too slow you WILL baffle strike your can ruining it.

 

With 300 Blackout bolt guns you can use very, very fast pistol powders to get a setup that is, literally, quieter than a sling shot. The general rule for loading SUBSONIC 300 Blackout in a single shot/bolt action is to use 45 ACP load data for bullets weighing the same or less.

 

And if you decide on 300 Blackout I am just a phone call away to make sure you don't have to mess around figuring out what works and what doesn't.

[Jct1911]

Honestly having had the 700, model 7 and 2 ARs chambered in 300blk, I'd go with the Handi rifle if not an AR. The 700 is a heavy police profile, much too heavy for the cartridge, also chambering was iffy at times with certain profiles, same with the model 7. Now I'm down to one SBR 10" AR in the caliber. The Handi will make loading easy and brass last a long time and will save bunches of up front cost. The Ruger would be a nice choice as it's light, just haven't handled one to comment.

Option B: if you haven't considered a .38/357/max, it is much simpler to download and ammo is much more common, offers power in line with 300BO on high end. Subsonic 38's are really quiet. Could be had in a single shot, Ruger 77/357 or even a lever gun.

[Guest mechanically]

I am going to throw you a curve ball and suggest the 700 Rem in 300.

 

 

The 700s are awesome, but probably more $ for what I want to do. 

 

Of the choices you have listed I voted for the handi.  The 300 Blackout is not as expensive if you roll your own, many projos that will work for it in either pulldowns or cast.  But not a fan of the company right now so I have been eyeballing this one : http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/models.html 

 

 

Yes, that is a threaded barrel; that info is hard to come by in the literature.

 

I saw those a while back, maybe it was you who pasted a link to them going for a pretty good price? I think you're right, and it would be a similar, but much better option to the Handi Rifle. 

 

I'll pitch a curve ball and say look at something in a .22 mag.

 

Given that I want to do something subsonic, and 22mag subsonic is, well, 22lr, I think I'll just stick with the 22s I've already got. Maybe I'm missing something? Feel free to call me out if so!

 

With 300 Blackout bolt guns you can use very, very fast pistol powders to get a setup that is, literally, quieter than a sling shot. The general rule for loading SUBSONIC 300 Blackout in a single shot/bolt action is to use 45 ACP load data for bullets weighing the same or less.

 

And if you decide on 300 Blackout I am just a phone call away to make sure you don't have to mess around figuring out what works and what doesn't.

 

This was super helpful Dolomite. Thanks, as always. I was thinking they were pretty similar in capacity and functionality, but I think you've pointed out that they are more different than I was thinking. I think you've helped tip me over to the 300BO side of things. 

 

Option B: if you haven't considered a .38/357/max, it is much simpler to download and ammo is much more common, offers power in line with 300BO on high end. Subsonic 38's are really quiet. Could be had in a single shot, Ruger 77/357 or even a lever gun.

 

While I hadn't mentioned it in this thread, I'm actually REALLY glad you brought this up!  I've got a Rossi 1892 lever gun in .357. I think it would make a SWEET little suppressed rig with heavy .38s! I'll have to have someone shorten the mag tube under the barrel, since it's flush with the end of the barrel, and of course thread the barrel. Then, I'll have to figure out sights. I wonder if anyone makes tall sights for 1892s? :)  It's a 16" barrel, so even with the can won't be bonkers long. I think it'll be a hoot!

[nightrunner]

For the 1892, I would think it would be easiest to add an optical sight of some sort.

[Dolomite_supafly]

For front sights the best to use are for Thompson Center Contenders. They offer several different bases with different heights as well as different replaceable blades of different heights. And all they take is one or two holes to be drilled and tapped. They are all I use anymore for projects that need sights.

 

ARs in 300 Blackout are great but they are substantially louder than any single shot or bolt action. Even using the same ammunition the AR is louder because of the pressures needed to cycle the gun. And while I do have an AR in 300 Blackout the gun I shoot most often is my T/C Encore in 300 Blackout followed by my T/C Contender pistol.

 

BTW, they have stopped doing the barrel service for Handi rifles. You can no longer get a barrel fitted from the factory. But I have seen the AAC version in 300 Blackout beign sold for $250 so that is probably the cheapest way to get a gun chambered in 300 Blackout.

 

The next best thing is a T/C Contender. You can find barrels in pretty much any caliber you want but finding rifle barrel chambered in pistol calibers can be very, very challenging unless you have one custom made.

[Dolomite_supafly]

BTW, hard to beat this:

https://www.defenderoutdoors.com/p-88776-hr-72430-handi-rifle-300-aac-blackout-16-tb-1rd-scope-mount-rail-syn-stk.aspx

 

or this

 

http://buckshotonline.com/product.hr-handi-rifle-300-blackout-16-barrel-silencer-ready-scope-mount-rail

[MemHeli]

this has been a good read for me as well...been looking hard at the 300 Blackout caliber.  Following intently.

[Rebels010]

When it comes to suppressed shooting, the blackout puts a beat down on every rifle caliber.

I have one in 8.5 inch AR, a 16 inch AR and handi rifle. For the money, the handi is tough to beat, the if I was only going to get one I would get the ruger.

It's a reloaders wet dream too, can use 223 brass and endless choices of 30 cal bullets. It's popularity is growing everyday, checkout how many offerings midway has of different types of ammo. You can buy it at Walmart too.

Is it the perfect round, no, but its close for suppressed shooting.