- Second Amendment Attorney Recommendation(s) ...

[Zeke311]

Was initially refused by TICS, then after a proper appeal, & TICS taking longer than their own self-imposed "Fifteen Days", I received a Conditional.

I know it stems from a deal in Cleveland, OH in 2001 where I was not charged, arraigned, & obviously not convicted of anything, only held in the pokey for just shy of twenty-seven hours, then let go without incident ... & I continued on home to Syracuse, NY - My home at the time.

I know Cleveland does not hold onto records longer than ten years, & that is the issue. I have a copy of the incident direct from CPD from approximately 8-9 years after ordeal. Completely infuriating to read it, & how it still affects me at this point.

I know live in Oak Ridge, TN, USA, & am looking for a possible recommendation for a Second Ammendment attorney to assist in expunging this ordeal so my FFL Shop Owner will release my three, inherited pistols.

Any information any of you folks could offer will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Zeke

PS: If no one is in Oak Ridge, I am able to travel reasonable distances ... this is that important to me.

[DaveTN]

I’ve been through it. But I question that you weren’t arrested. Otherwise where is the info coming from? They don’t have people in the data bases that were merely held without being charged.

If you were arrested and the charges were dropped the most likely scenario is that the arrest does not show a disposition. You don’t need an attorney to fix that. Contact the Circuit Clerk or Clerk of the Court where it happened and see what they can do to help.

[Zeke311]

I just saw that I left out that I was absolutely cuffed & stuffed, obviously, Sir. But was told I was "going for a ride" while other officers on the scene continued to investigate.

While being held, everything (information) was withheld from me. It even peeved one of the CO's to the point that he allowed me to use his cell phone while in my cell because he knew it would be about 3am before I would be given my "one phone call". I was arrested at approximately 5pm. It truly was around 2am before I was taken to be processed, but still zero charges, only the possibility of them hung over my head while my girlfriend was beating down the City's front door, & my Dad raced six hours - on her call - with $10,000 in cash in case I needed to be bailed out.

They just ended up in a hotel room a few blocks away & had limited communication with a detective who said they were working on getting me out, but has to wait for all the reporting officers' reports.

Twenty-seven hours later, around 9:30pm the next night - a Friday - I was released without incident. Period.

I know I am a complete, brand new stranger (on) here, & parts of this likely sounds far-fetched, I can only ask that you folks please take my word for it.

I stand here with nothing more to offer.

[xjsnake]

Contact Midtennchip on here, if there is truly an issue of your record and firearms, he's who you want to talk to

[Dolomite_supafly]

I thought you could pick your guns up with a conditional, that is if the dealer wants to.

 

I am sure you have already read this but:

 

What is a Conditional Proceed?

If during the background check TICS locates a record with outstanding disqualifying charges or charges that are undeterminable as disqualifying, TICS will deny the transaction.  Upon an appeal of the denial, TICS will attempt to find disposition information on the charges in order to make a determination of eligibility to purchase a firearm.  If TICS cannot obtain the information within the mandatory 15 day limit, the transaction will be marked as a Conditional Proceed.  This means that the firearm dealer may lawfully, at his/her discretion, complete the transfer, although it in no way means that the dealer must complete the transfer.  Should the dealer choose not to complete the transfer, your only appeal is to the FBI's NICS Appeals Services Unit.  You may contact them at (877) 324-6427.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Dolomite_supafly

[DaveTN]

I know I am a complete, brand new stranger (on) here, & parts of this likely sounds far-fetched, I can only ask that you folks please take my word for it.

I stand here with nothing more to offer.

I do not doubt your word. What happened is immaterial other than what was reported on your record. If you weren’t arrested the Cleveland incident wasn’t it. But I suspect you were booked into jail; that is an arrest. You may not have been charged by the DA but the arrest is still there. If there is not arrest; there is nothing to expunge.

Have you called the TBI to see what is being reported? Usually these kinds of cases are because there is no disposition on the arrest. Or it could be there is confusion on your identity. If it is the Cleveland incident people there can fix it. Sounds to me like someone is pulling your leg on the 10 year thing. Your arrest may have been submitted to the Feds but Cleveland didn’t follow up with a disposition. They can submit a disposition.

If you want an attorney maybe one of the forum attorneys will respond, or any criminal attorney in your area should be able to help.

[Zeke311]

I do not doubt your word. What happened is immaterial other than what was reported on your record. If you weren’t arrested the Cleveland incident wasn’t it. But I suspect you were booked into jail; that is an arrest. You may not have been charged by the DA but the arrest is still there. If there is not arrest; there is nothing to expunge.

Have you called the TBI to see what is being reported? Usually these kinds of cases are because there is no disposition on the arrest. Or it could be there is confusion on your identity. If it is the Cleveland incident people there can fix it. Sounds to me like someone is pulling your leg on the 10 year thing. Your arrest may have been submitted to the Feds but Cleveland didn’t follow up with a disposition. They can submit a disposition.

If you want an attorney maybe one of the forum attorneys will respond, or any criminal attorney in your area should be able to help.

No, I have not called TBI. I just got the Condition Thursday, so this is as fast as I can move this along ... as a matter of fact, I was plainly told by the FFL I am working with that ONLY an individual with an attorney can open up my files to see what is tripping me up, per se, & that I cannot do it by myself, ... which came across as somewhat strange to me.

As I read every line of the past
Cleveland PD report, the "Disposition:" & "Disp. Date:" are both blank, although it does say the case is closed.

Date of incident was June 2001, date of receiving this report was August 2011.

[Zeke311]

I thought you could pick your guns up with a conditional, that is if the dealer wants to.

I am sure you have already read this but:

What is a Conditional Proceed?
If during the background check TICS locates a record with outstanding disqualifying charges or charges that are undeterminable as disqualifying, TICS will deny the transaction. Upon an appeal of the denial, TICS will attempt to find disposition information on the charges in order to make a determination of eligibility to purchase a firearm. If TICS cannot obtain the information within the mandatory 15 day limit, the transaction will be marked as a Conditional Proceed. This means that the firearm dealer may lawfully, at his/her discretion, complete the transfer, although it in no way means that the dealer must complete the transfer. Should the dealer choose not to complete the transfer, your only appeal is to the FBI's NICS Appeals Services Unit. You may contact them at (877) 324-6427.

Yeah, if the Dealer wants to ... wants to take the risk ... it is up to him.

He is under zero obligation whatsoever, especially since he does not know me from a hole in the ground ... I just moved here three months ago.

Therefore, I completely understand his hesitation.

So at his shop my pistols do sit & gather dust ...

[Pain103]

 I would contact an attorney on the forum if you want one. You pay for a background on yourself and it should contain the arrest and disposition history. If you were never arrested then there is nothing to expunge point blank. This makes me think you were charged and maybe charges were dropped or some other sentence and maybe you were confused on the outcome, wouldn't be the first time. Also to get a charge expunged I believe you will need to go through the court it occurred in. Good luck either way.

[DaveTN]

No, I have not called TBI. I just got the Condition Thursday, so this is as fast as I can move this along ... as a matter of fact, I was plainly told by the FFL I am working with that ONLY an individual with an attorney can open up my files to see what is tripping me up, per se, & that I cannot do it by myself, ... which came across as somewhat strange to me.

He’s wrong. I was arrested over 30 years ago in Illinois for having a gun in my car; it was dismissed. I bought guns over the next 30 years in several states with no problems. In Tennessee I was refused twice. I appealed and they were both approved.

The TBI told me it was something Illinois was reporting. I told them what it was and that it was dismissed. I told them even if it wasn’t it was a misdemeanor and would not disqualify me. They said it could be a felony in Tennessee. But they approved both transactions.

I have friends and family in law enforcement in Illinois; they told me Illinois wasn’t reporting anything on me other than traffic. So I knew it had to be the Feds.

You can pay and get a background check through the Feds; I think it was $25. I thought; well I can apply for a C&R license for $30 and it will include the background check. It worked, the BATF sent be a letter explaining that the gun charge didn’t have a disposition. They explained that I needed to contact the Court Clerk and get a copy of the disposition and submit it. I did and got approved.

When my daughter went to the clerk’s office to get the paperwork they told her it happens a lot. They resubmitted it to the Feds and I haven’t had any problems since.

This may or may not apply to you; hope it helps.

[Troutburger]

Yeah, if the Dealer wants to ... wants to take the risk ... it is up to him.

He is under zero obligation whatsoever, especially since he does not know me from a hole in the ground ... I just moved here three months ago.

Therefore, I completely understand his hesitation.

So at his shop my pistols do sit & gather dust ...

Your denial is most likely due to the fact you just moved here 3 months ago.  I have seen 2 such denials where people have just moved to TN. It can take up to 30 days to get the official "proceed."

 

Call the number Dolomite provided, be nice, and I bet you see some progress. 

[Zeke311]

He’s wrong. I was arrested over 30 years ago in Illinois for having a gun in my car; it was dismissed. I bought guns over the next 30 years in several states with no problems. In Tennessee I was refused twice. I appealed and they were both approved.

The TBI told me it was something Illinois was reporting. I told them what it was and that it was dismissed. I told them even if it wasn’t it was a misdemeanor and would not disqualify me. They said it could be a felony in Tennessee. But they approved both transactions.

I have friends and family in law enforcement in Illinois; they told me Illinois wasn’t reporting anything on me other than traffic. So I knew it had to be the Feds.

You can pay and get a background check through the Feds; I think it was $25. I thought; well I can apply for a C&R license for $30 and it will include the background check. It worked, the BATF sent be a letter explaining that the gun charge didn’t have a disposition. They explained that I needed to contact the Court Clerk and get a copy of the disposition and submit it. I did and got approved.

When my daughter went to the clerk’s office to get the paperwork they told her it happens a lot. They resubmitted it to the Feds and I haven’t had any problems since.

This may or may not apply to you; hope it helps.

Update:

I called Cleveland Courts & they could do nothing because it never got to them ... the Case Number I have is only a Police Report number that was randomly generated.

I then said to Hell with it, & called TBI.

Very kind lady spike with me & had me tell her, without straight out asking me, about my criminal history. I told her the only thing she/TBI could be looking at is the Cleveland deal, & I briefly gave her the facts as I had them in my hands.

I was instructed to call the Ohio AG's Office of (Criminal) Investigations & ID & let them know the issue, & that I was working with TBI, etc.

I did just that.

Ohio let me know that CPD has an actual department that expunges records that meet certain criteria, & that would be my quickest way to begin this, or else call them back & go at this in a different angle.

I called CPD, got the Expungement Unit on the horn, & was quickly told that this could only be done IN PERSON!

I blew my stack, ... in the most respectfull way I could, of course, ... but I let the lady know I don't live in Cleveland nor in Ohio, NOR in any adjoining state. So I was asked if I knew anyone in Cleveland that could go to CPD for me that I trusted to file in person for me.

It was at that point that I literally blew a cork, & gave a piece of my mind about this so-called policy, & if I could speak to a supervisor.

The head detective of the Unit came on the line & took my info, asked my "story", & pulled up my report.

It was immediately stated that it was absolutely eligible for an Administrative Expungement, & all I needed to do was to write a letter & request such be done.

The letter was written & in a USPS Priority envelope at 1:45pm yesterday afternoon.

I was told it would take no longer than two weeks. I told them that it then needed to be reported to the Ohio Investigation & ID so that they could NTFY TBI & then I could get on with my life.

I was told no problem & given a direct line phone number to said detective.

[Zeke311]

By the way, the deal in Cleveland was not firearms related.

[JayC]

Yet another reason we should push to have TICS - which violates the state constitution - repealed...  TN should take no part in firearm background check which violate the natural right to own a firearm.

[mikegideon]

Once again, the Brady Bill saves the public from a mass killin'. Assholes.

[Zeke311]

Ugh ...

For those that might remember my "fight", I was able to get Cleveland to conduct an administrative expungement within about four minutes, ... once I got to the right person on the phone - a helpful female detective who actually seemed to care, then thoroughly proved it to me.

She pushed everything through CPD's chief, then I received actual raised-seal copies of my clear record for the city & county up there as she pushed it to Ohio's bureau of investigation with an overnight delivery & even shared the tracking number via e-Mail with me. She asked OBoI to please get the info cleared & pressed on to the FBI, & if someone would please fax said info to the the number I provided that I was given by the TBI.

By the second week of August, my FFL told me everything was good to go. *phew!*

I was heading out of town, then the next week was all Bristol, all the time ...

Needless to say, I finally snagged my property here just over a month ago. Apologies for not posting my "ending" sooner.

Now to chase down some more important info that really matters to me on here!

Thank you for all the folks that shared great info & just plain 'ol good vibes - whether in this Thread, or via PM.

Be well, ...

[A.J. Holst]

Glad you are legal again and that you received excellent customer service from CPD!

[Randall53]

Again, this amazing site comes through to help someone. I've never been a member of a forum with such a diverse ability to help it's members. This is truly a very special place. :up: