Better quit discussing guns, or else!

[K191145]

How will they make this stick?  I'm no expert on ITAR regs, but I don't understand how they can cover the discussion of individual small arms and ammunition under it without running afoul of the Constitution.  First attempted prosecution and SAF, NRA, GOA would most likely front the legal fees to get it squashed riki tik.

 

If they really try to push this, I will bet the farm that we will see a fury of gun owners screaming at their reps along with the NRA, SAF, GOA among others like we haven't seen before. I am ready to start screaming myself at them. This will not happen, when they get the backlash from all the gun owners, internet forums, youtube gun gurus, bloggers and probably gun manufacturers and many others, Reps and Senators will put a stop to it.

Edited June 8, 2015 by K191145

[K191145]

 

I got an email from the NRA today entitled, "Stop Obama's Planned Gag Order on Firearm-Related Speech"  Of course, they urgently want me to send money.  I've learned that I have to check emails like this from the NRA for truth.  I have found that they mis-characterize or tell bold face lies to get us to send money.

 

I found and read the source document.  The document wasn't easy to read and I'm not sure exactly what it said.  It certainly didn't say anything about a gag order on firearm related speech.  As best I could tell, it's meant to keep information about weapons systems out of the hands of the bad guys.

 

It's also possible that it is wolf in sheep's clothing.  However, they shouldn't be saying things like, "gag order on ....."  

 

It really irritates me that I can't trust the NRA to be honest about when there is really an issue.

 

I'm grateful for the NRA.  We have the gun freedom's that we have in large part because of them.  I may get a Lifetime membership while they are $500.

 

While grateful, I will call them out on their BS.

 

 

Google or Bing it and many links will come up, Drudge now has a link about it, they didn't earlier today.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nra-gun-blogs-videos-web-forums-threatened-by-new-obama-regulation/article/2565762

 

Earlier when this thread was posted I went to Bing and found 1/2 page of links to this, now go to Bing and type in, NRA: New Obama Regulations Threaten Gun blogs, Videos.   and you will find 4-1/2 pages of links. This story is taking off.

Edited June 8, 2015 by K191145

[btq96r]

If they really try to push this, I will bet the farm that we will see a fury of gun owners screaming at their reps along with the NRA, SAF, GOA among others like we haven't seen before. I am ready to start screaming myself at them. This will not happen, when they get the backlash from all the gun owners, internet forums, youtube gun gurus, bloggers and probably gun manufacturers and many others, Reps and Senators will put a stop to it.

 

I just don't see how they can get it past the idea phase if it's indeed being written as feared.  Even assuming the Constitutional protections won't impede it, what have they ever managed to stop from being discussed on the internet?  ITAR is for things we sell overseas or companies take to other countries for work.  Me talking about my personally owned weapons, or ammo on the internet isn't talking about a weapons export.

 

I'm waiting for more info before a final opinion.  Worse comes to pass, we'll set up TGO as an Onion site and everybody can just use Tor to access it. :stare:

[rmiddle]

I'm waiting for more info before a final opinion.  Worse comes to pass, we'll set up TGO as an Onion site and everybody can just use Tor to access it. :stare:

 

Tor isn't secure.  The US government has been able to trace people back through tor a while now.  There are secure ways that exist but Tor isn't one of them.

 

Thanks

Robert

[K191145]

I just don't see how they can get it past the idea phase if it's indeed being written as feared.  Even assuming the Constitutional protections won't impede it, what have they ever managed to stop from being discussed on the internet?  ITAR is for things we sell overseas or companies take to other countries for work.  Me talking about my personally owned weapons, or ammo on the internet isn't talking about a weapons export.

 

I'm waiting for more info before a final opinion.  Worse comes to pass, we'll set up TGO as an Onion site and everybody can just use Tor to access it. :stare:

 

Well, there have been many bad things stopped in their tracks by public outrage, like Federal gun control laws recently, banning green tip ammo etc., scream at your Reps loud enough and you will scare them into acting. I can believe these regulations are a plan or being considered, one thing though, if they are not seriously considering this right now and we all start screaming just because they even considered it, it will still send a loud message to the politicians. We need to be offensive and defensive.

[mikegideon]

You just got put on the "list"

 

What a joke, nothing should surprise me anymore but it still does.

 

I've been on the list. Piss on Obama, and all his friends.

[mikegideon]

I just don't see how they can get it past the idea phase if it's indeed being written as feared.  Even assuming the Constitutional protections won't impede it, what have they ever managed to stop from being discussed on the internet?  ITAR is for things we sell overseas or companies take to other countries for work.  Me talking about my personally owned weapons, or ammo on the internet isn't talking about a weapons export.

 

I'm waiting for more info before a final opinion.  Worse comes to pass, we'll set up TGO as an Onion site and everybody can just use Tor to access it. :stare:

 

They don't give a rat's ass about the constitution until it lands in front of SCOTUS. Stupid laws get ignored. Check those gun registrations in New York.

[btq96r]

Tor isn't secure.  The US government has been able to trace people back through tor a while now.  There are secure ways that exist but Tor isn't one of them.

 

Thanks

Robert

 

Connecting to Tor through a VPN is still a decent resistance play, IMO.  Nothing is fully secure, but like locked doors and windows, you can make it harder on the powers that be with layered defenses.

[Ron_TN]

You think things are bad now wait untill the "BITCH" get's to be president.  I guarantee you she's gonna stir some shit ...you anit seen nothing yet.  I'm a fox junky and she's bittin at the bit to bust the NRA.  You think Obama is bad.  And lets face it "SHE WILL GET ELECTED".

[QuietDan]

A short First Amendment and Second Amendment speech:

 

"Come and Take It."

Edited June 8, 2015 by QuietDan

[rmiddle]

Connecting to Tor through a VPN is still a decent resistance play, IMO.  Nothing is fully secure, but like locked doors and windows, you can make it harder on the powers that be with layered defenses.

 

I agree nothing is secure.  I also agree that a layered approach is the most secure method.  My concern is people think that using Tor makes them secure.  Tor on it own is only so secure and the US Government has peeled that onion long ago.

 

Thanks

Robert

[Ugly]

Benghazi, IRS targeting, obamacare, fast and furious etc, etc.

We really start screaming? That's why they would attempt to do something like this, we do nothing!

[DaveTN]

The 3D printing arguments are ridiculous. There are plenty of sites that have models of uppers and lowers; some are correct, some aren’t. It is perfectly legal for me to make my own guns; real guns made of metal not POS toys made on a 3D printer. So they are concerned about people that have 3D printers but not those who have the tools to make the real deal?

Their concern seems to be mass production. As soon as someone starts manufacturing and selling or transferring firearms to other people it doesn’t matter how there were made or where the plans came from; they get arrested and face prison time.

I guess if they want to register 3D printers; mills and lathes will be next?

[Dolomite_supafly]

They used the ITAR regulations to go after the 3d printed guns.

 

Stuff like this will only get worse the closer we get to his term ending. What scares the bejesus out of me is that ~3 months between the election and him leaving office. We are going to see an all out assault on all guns and ammunition, specifically imports, because he KNOWS he can do it using executive orders and by the time all the outrage will hit Washington he will be long gone. Then Hillary will finish the fight or at least refuse to reverse everything Obama will have done.

 

We ARE getting to a point where contacting representatives is a senseless waste of time. I contact my representatives all the time regarding issues and they do not care about me or what I have to say. They only care when they are not getting their fair share of the corrupt profits. This is no different than what started the Revolutionary war. We are getting taxed to a point it is a serious burden and our representatives do not represent us or even listen to us.

 

Our representatives, state and federal, are so corrupt that they do not want to risk being caught themselves by trying to hold others accountable. There have never been any more clear cut cases for impeachment as well as a well deserved cleaning in Washington but not a single representative will start the process. Yes there is a lot of posturing and talk but nothing is, or ever will be, done.

 

We ARE about to loose a substantial amount of our gun rights. Not because of this but because Obama knows the system and knows he can use executive orders to significantly impact the rights of gun owners. Imagine if he put in place and executive order banning the import of guns, ammunition as well as ANY gun related item? And he has the authority to do it using executive orders and just like the Kalashnikov Concern import ban anything else banned by executive order will be there forever. How fun will it be to shoot your AK when ammunition will be $1 a round? He has already put a HUGE burden on those importing gun powder for reloading.

 

And along with our second amendment will be an attack on all the others. We are already seeing serious attacks on ALL of the first 10 amendments with the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th being their main focus right now.

 

Think we are not in the midst of a fledgling tyranny? Ask yourself if you are afraid of the government and the answers to both are the same. If the populace is afraid of their government then that government is generally a tyrannical government.

[Dirtshooter]

I certainly not a lawyer or knowledgeable about the law, but if the potus, atty gen and various politicians can circumvent the constitution does it really matter if they say "we" can't talk about a gun?? If "we the people" don't stand up now we are going to be like the Brits and Aussies and will have a single shot gun that is locked up in an amory across town that we can check out and shoot at an approved range for a fee of $$$$$ that the elitist dictate we pay. Hell the idiots in charge are more concerned with climate change which we all know cannot be controlled than they are about controlling the flood of illegal immigrants across the borders. If you think this is bad, just wait until the next Clinton gets in the WH, if you are able to purchase and have in your hand a slingshot you will be lucky!! Get ready it is coming to a town near you real fast!!! BTW I hope I am wrong about whom the next potus will be.

[K191145]

I certainly not a lawyer or knowledgeable about the law, but if the potus, atty gen and various politicians can circumvent the constitution does it really matter if they say "we" can't talk about a gun?? If "we the people" don't stand up now we are going to be like the Brits and Aussies and will have a single shot gun that is locked up in an amory across town that we can check out and shoot at an approved range for a fee of $$$$$ that the elitist dictate we pay. Hell the idiots in charge are more concerned with climate change which we all know cannot be controlled than they are about controlling the flood of illegal immigrants across the borders. If you think this is bad, just wait until the next Clinton gets in the WH, if you are able to purchase and have in your hand a slingshot you will be lucky!! Get ready it is coming to a town near you real fast!!! BTW I hope I am wrong about whom the next potus will be.

 

Well, I'm going to hold out a little hope for now that some of the "GENERICS", (independents, fence sitters), will not be all that enthused with Hillary. The elections in England, while we know they are still euro-socialists, went the way of the so-called conservatives, totally unexpected. Also it was thought that Bengimin N?? in Isreal was going to be beaten at the delight of the Moonbats but that didn't happen. I am holding out for a little hope for a year, i'm not going to depress myself too much now.

[Dolomite_supafly]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

[rmiddle]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

 

We are way to far out for those numbers to mean much of anything at this point.  8 Years ago I though it was going to be Clinton not the big O that was getting the node this far out.  Like many elections this is going to come down to Florida and Ohio.  If the Rep candidate can't take those two states they can't get the Whitehouse.  Hopefully with Decent Rep Governers in both states that will help.  Then again with VA and NC being pretty purple of late who knows how it will end up being.  Hopefully we can get a real constitutive POTUS and not another Bush and maybe if we can actually shrink the size and scope of government some then Northen VA will stop overriding the rest of the state of VA and will return to it solidly Red roots.

 

 

Thanks

Robert

[Spots]

They used the ITAR regulations to go after the 3d printed guns.

Stuff like this will only get worse the closer we get to his term ending. What scares the bejesus out of me is that ~3 months between the election and him leaving office. We are going to see an all out assault on all guns and ammunition, specifically imports, because he KNOWS he can do it using executive orders and by the time all the outrage will hit Washington he will be long gone. Then Hillary will finish the fight or at least refuse to reverse everything Obama will have done.

We ARE getting to a point where contacting representatives is a senseless waste of time. I contact my representatives all the time regarding issues and they do not care about me or what I have to say. They only care when they are not getting their fair share of the corrupt profits. This is no different than what started the Revolutionary war. We are getting taxed to a point it is a serious burden and our representatives do not represent us or even listen to us.

Our representatives, state and federal, are so corrupt that they do not want to risk being caught themselves by trying to hold others accountable. There have never been any more clear cut cases for impeachment as well as a well deserved cleaning in Washington but not a single representative will start the process. Yes there is a lot of posturing and talk but nothing is, or ever will be, done.

We ARE about to loose a substantial amount of our gun rights. Not because of this but because Obama knows the system and knows he can use executive orders to significantly impact the rights of gun owners. Imagine if he put in place and executive order banning the import of guns, ammunition as well as ANY gun related item? And he has the authority to do it using executive orders and just like the Kalashnikov Concern import ban anything else banned by executive order will be there forever. How fun will it be to shoot your AK when ammunition will be $1 a round? He has already put a HUGE burden on those importing gun powder for reloading.

And along with our second amendment will be an attack on all the others. We are already seeing serious attacks on ALL of the first 10 amendments with the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th being their main focus right now.

Think we are not in the midst of a fledgling tyranny? Ask yourself if you are afraid of the government and the answers to both are the same. If the populace is afraid of their government then that government is generally a tyrannical government.

We have been headed down this road for years. Erosion of our rights started much earlier than most people even realize. I mean the NFA started in 1934 and is a massive infringement on our 2nd Amendment. At this point the real question is when does it start. How do you decide when it's time to start shooting, since it's already to late for voting. Gun owners on a whole still crucify each other over something as mundane as open carry, so who is willing going to be a lamb to slaughter by openly starting a revolution.

Sent from the backwoods

[rmiddle]

We have been headed down this road for years. Erosion of our rights started much earlier than most people even realize. I mean the NFA started in 1934 and is a massive infringement on our 2nd Amendment. At this point the real question is when does it start. How do you decide when it's time to start shooting, since it's already to late for voting. Gun owners on a whole still crucify each other over something as mundane as open carry, so who is willing going to be a lamb to slaughter by openly starting a revolution.

Sent from the backwoods

 

It wont go from peaceful to shooting overnight.  Instead we are going to see more and more showdowns like we have seen at Bundy Ranch and the miners in Oregon.  So far the showdowns haven't gone bloody but as more of them happen the changes of them getting bloody go up at some point it becomes an all out shooting war.  The real question is what will the statehouse do.  The fact is a handful of guy with ar15 will be wiped out.  However how many states have local governments that have been pushing to get the 10th amendment reinstated.  Some states like Texas have a really large National Guard and could give the US Government a run for it money.

 

Thanks

Robert

Edited June 8, 2015 by rmiddle

[Spots]

It wont go from peaceful to shooting overnight. Instead we are going to see more and more showdowns like we have seen at Bundy Ranch and the miners in Oregon. So far the showdowns haven't gone bloody but as more of them happen the changes of them getting bloody go up at some point it becomes an all out shooting war. The real question is what will the statehouse do. The fact is a handful of guy with ar15 will be wiped out. However how many states have local governments that have been pushing to get the 10th amendment reinstated. Some states like Texas have a really large National Guard and could give the use Government a run for it money.

Thanks
Robert

Of course a lot of it depends on how this stuff plays out. Some people will wake up one day and try to figure out when Lala land disappeared. And it hinges on several other things also, as a large scale event such as economic collapse will change the entire landscape.

Sent from the backwoods

[2.ooohhh]

The 3D printing arguments are ridiculous. There are plenty of sites that have models of uppers and lowers; some are correct, some aren’t. It is perfectly legal for me to make my own guns; real guns made of metal not POS toys made on a 3D printer. So they are concerned about people that have 3D printers but not those who have the tools to make the real deal?

Their concern seems to be mass production. As soon as someone starts manufacturing and selling or transferring firearms to other people it doesn’t matter how there were made or where the plans came from; they get arrested and face prison time.

I guess if they want to register 3D printers; mills and lathes will be next?

 

Removing the plans from the internet(not that they could) is about 3 steps too late. The genie is already out of the bottle. My 12yr old niece can accurately model ANYTHING I hand her in solidworks in minutes with just a dial caliper and some printed sizing tools. 20 min. later the 3d printer is warming up to spit out a model of it to her liking. Last february she had never seen solidworks and had just received the 3d printer a week prior for her birthday. She came over this weekend for a family pool party and was more excited about me printing a few models that won't fit on her printbed than she was about the pool. When I called to order a CNC router last week I was told it won't ship for nearly a month. I assumed it was due to the new model I ordered not being quite ready, the owner corrected me. . . it's that they can only ship around 80 kits a DAY! By my math there are just shy of 2000 CNC router orders ahead of mine for a relatively high end(for a consumer model) US manufactured CNC router. That's phenomenal IMHO and I'm super happy to see it.

 

 

TLDR-"Files" of printable AR lowers should be the least of their worries.

[rmiddle]

Of course a lot of it depends on how this stuff plays out. Some people will wake up one day and try to figure out when Lala land disappeared. And it hinges on several other things also, as a large scale event such as economic collapse will change the entire landscape.

Sent from the backwoods

 

Of curse I never claimed I could predict the future.  A whole lot of things have to happen or not happen before it turns into a shooting war.  After a few bloody battle the America people could wake up and vote in people who actually do care about the Constitution and they restore order.  There are hundreds of ways it can play out.  Hell a few members of the region of peace could get nukes into Chicago, Denver, and Phili witch would change the entire political landscape overnight.

 

Thanks

Robert

[rmiddle]

Removing the plans from the internet(not that they could) is about 3 steps too late. The genie is already out of the bottle. My 12yr old niece can accurately model ANYTHING I hand her in solidworks in minutes with just a dial caliper and some printed sizing tools. 20 min. later the 3d printer is warming up to spit out a model of it to her liking. Last february she had never seen solidworks and had just received the 3d printer a week prior for her birthday. She came over this weekend for a family pool party and was more excited about me printing a few models that won't fit on her printbed than she was about the pool. When I called to order a CNC router last week I was told it won't ship for nearly a month. I assumed it was due to the new model I ordered not being quite ready, the owner corrected me. . . it's that they can only ship around 80 kits a DAY! By my math there are just shy of 2000 CNC router orders ahead of mine for a relatively high end(for a consumer model) US manufactured CNC router. That's phenomenal IMHO and I'm super happy to see it.

 

 

TLDR-"Files" of printable AR lowers should be the least of their worries.

 

Can't discount the Maker spaces as well.  I am invold in one in Severn MD and looked and found 2 in my new area.  One in Cleveland and one in Chattanooga.  I can't picture a maker space not have at least 1 3D printer in it.  Now things like CNC cost a little more but many do have them.  So it isn't just someone in there workshop that can build something like this.

Edited June 8, 2015 by rmiddle

[K191145]

Of course a lot of it depends on how this stuff plays out. Some people will wake up one day and try to figure out when Lala land disappeared. And it hinges on several other things also, as a large scale event such as economic collapse will change the entire landscape.

Sent from the backwoods

 

I can see that happening, I don't want it to happen for the sake of the people, the ones that will suffer like the innocent ones, children, but something like that may need to happen as a lesser of two evils. Now I know I said that young children are the real or pure innocent ones but we adults are partly to blame for allowing it to happen. I hope it's not a full depression but enough to make people wake up, it's better than the complete destruction of the Constitution and our rights which will eventually lead to circumstances far worse that an economic recession.