Need Info About An Old S&W Model 15

[mhl6493]

A friend of mine invited me to stop by his house this morning if I had time. I did, and knowing my love for revolvers, he gave me an old W&W Model 15 (no dash). Obviously, from the pictures, it hasn't exactly been babied. I was hoping to glean from the vast knowledge of all you S&W revolver aficionados some info about this gun.

1) I'd love to know approximately when it was made/shipped. I don't think my friend was the original owner, but he seemed to think it was 50 or so years old. Don't know if it goes back that far or not. Anyway, it's a Model 15-no dash, and the Serial Number is K345xxx. If any of you can help me on this, I'd be grateful.

2) Depending on the age, is this a gun rated for +P?

3) The finish is pretty beat up. Is this nickel, or stainless? Is it possible for stainless to show this much and this kind of wear? 

4) I was planning on giving it a good once-over with Ballistol this afternoon, before I do anything else. If it's nickel, is this OK?

5) I would love to have this thing restored as closely as possible to what it once was, both externally and internally (if needed - not sure how to tell just by looking at it). But I don't feel like I have the knowledge or skill to do it (unless is it was fairly easy), and I'd hate to do any more damage to it. What would y'all recommend I do? Is there someone who had a good reputation for restoring old revolvers without breaking the bank? 

I'm sure I'll think of a thousand other things, but that's all I can come up with to ask at the moment. I'm thrilled and honored that my friend has given me such a gift, and I want to do what I can to take maximum advantage of it. 

If you can think of anything else I might need to know about this particular gun (or the model in general), I'd love to hear it. 

 

[Garufa]

1)  It was made in 1958

2)  There was no +P rating back then but the gun can handle it.

3)  Most likely it left the factory blued (definitely not stainless) or it was nickel and somebody tried to blue it.  :lol:  Pics are often deceiving of old S&W's cause back then they had a very bright, polished blue finish.

4)  Ballistol....in case it is nickel:

 

 

Is Ballistol safe on nickel/chrome/gold leaf?

Yes! Ballistol is safe on all metals when used as directed. There is the potential with any creeping oil to “lift” metals plated by electrolysis, but our product is simply not capable of deteriorating these metals. We recommend when using Ballistol on electro-plated metals (gold leaf, nickel, chrome, etc.) to wipe off any excess Ballistol after cleaning. Ballistol should not be used on these surfaces if they are scratched or damaged.

http://www.ballistol.com/faqs/

 

5)  Don't know who could fix it up.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Garufa

[Jonnin]

roughly  --- model 15 straight up is '57 - '59 best I could glean from the web.

 

it can probably hand 38+P in small doses, they were well made back when, but I would not shoot a LOT of them.  Beware of any that were made for 357s ... some 38s are nearly disguised magnums with the online load data sharing sites (it says so if this is the case).  That would always be home-cooked hot loads.  Factory +P should be ok but again, don't shoot thousands of em.  More likely than pressure problems would be hot gas cutting from too many hot loads. 

 

it looks blue to me.  picture is hard to say.

 

take it apart is easy.  Putting it back together takes 4 or 5 hands but it can be done by anyone with patience and carefulness.   But its likely rusty inside... youll need to polish that off and maybe give it a light protective coating (blue ink pen type) and keep it oiled after.   Odds are all it needs is a de-rusting pass on the internals and a refinish on the external.   Its largely a hunk of metal... it should mostly be ok apart from cosmetic damage.  I think S&W will refinish it, if no one else will. Its hard to find anyone with a real bluing system anymore, EPA has made it unpossible to work with it for small outfits. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by Jonnin

[TNWNGR]

The two comments cover things perfectly. It's your revolver now so do with it what you will but I don't recommend more then an occasional cylinder full of +p 38 Special through it and strongly recommend you not shoot any +p+ ammo in it. I also recommend you only detail clean it or have it done, don't refinish it as it has wonderful character as it is.

[mhl6493]

Thanks, everyone.  I'm thinking the finish is probably nickel - it doesn't show up too well in the pictures, as mentioned.  I checked the timing and lock-up, and all that seems to be fine.  But I'm guessing as was mentioned, the inside probably looks as rough as the outside.  I may see what it would cost to send it back to the Performance Center for a good once-over...

[mhl6493]

Well, so much for the Performance Center idea.  I sent Customer Service and e-mail, and just got this in response:

 

"Dear Customer,

Unfortunately we cannot work on firearms manufactured before 1959 and the no dash version of the Model 15 was manufactured before that date. The finish is too far gone as well. We apologize for the inconvenience.  

Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.

Regards, Ashley"

 

Oh well, maybe I can find somebody else who would do the same thing the PC would have done.  Or maybe, as they said, the finish is just too far gone, though I find that hard to believe...

Edited June 5, 2015 by mhl6493

[Garufa]

How's the SA/DA trigger pull?  I ask because someone's been inside that gun.  You can tell from the boogered-up screws.

 

It may look like hell but I bet it still shoots great.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Garufa

[jh225]

As a S&W lover/collector I am with the factory on their assessment. Clean it and shoot it.

 

A Model 15 no dash in mint condition is a $550-600 gun at best. They are not really collectable and to restore that one, if even possible with all the pitting would cost 3x that.

[deadeye111]

What jh225 said.
Clean it well and shoot it like you stole it!!

[EssOne]

And remember that there is a right and wrong way to remove the side plate. The wrong way is to remove the screws and pry it off with a screwdriver - this will destroy the fine fit of the part. The correct way to do it is to remove the screws and grips, lay the gun on its left side in your left hand over a padded surface like a couch or bed and lightly smack the grip frame on the up or right side with a wooden or plastic handled screwdriver. The tapping will dislodge the sideplate. When it pops out of the frame, you're good to go.

 

I agree with the other gents. Remember that the standard service load in 1958 was a 158 grain lead round nose bullet traveling at 855fps and developing 255 foot pounds of energy. That's pretty anemic, and I have no doubt that a steady diet of +P ammo will shoot it loose. So I'd forget any high pressure ammo and let the old trooper be what it is. I would invest zero money in it beyond a set of grips that fit your hand well enough to enjoy shooting it.

Edited June 5, 2015 by EssOne

[enfield]

DT Edited June 5, 2015 by enfield

[enfield]

1958 is the birth date, and if it looks like nickel, it is. There were a few stainless ones made in later years, but stainless never made it into production on this model.

[mhl6493]

How's the SA/DA trigger pull?  I ask because someone's been inside that gun.  You can tell from the boogered-up screws.

 

It may look like hell but I bet it still shoots great.

 

That could be... but it feels pretty normal to me.  Hope they didn't remove the hammer block...

[mhl6493]

Thanks again for all the responses.  Sounds like the consensus is to clean it, shoot it, enjoy it, and invest nothing in it.  I certainly don't plan on taking the side plate off myself -- especially if someone else has already been in there -- no way I'd ever get it back together... :surrender:   The only thing I may do is find a gunsmith locally who can take it apart and clean the inside of it good.  Other than that, I'll probably do as y'all suggest and just let 'er be...

Edited June 5, 2015 by mhl6493

[mikegideon]

1)  It was made in 1958

2)  There was no +P rating back then but the gun can handle it.

3)  Most likely it left the factory blued (definitely not stainless) or it was nickel and somebody tried to blue it.  :lol:  Pics are often deceiving of old S&W's cause back then they had a very bright, polished blue finish.

4)  Ballistol....in case it is nickel:

 

 

 

5)  Don't know who could fix it up.

 

i had a model 15 in the late 70's that was factory nickel. Don't know when it was manufactured, but was in pristine shape. Yeah, I regret selling it.

[Garufa]

Thanks again for all the responses.  Sounds like the consensus is to clean it, shoot it, enjoy it, and invest nothing in it.  I certainly don't plan on taking the side plate off myself -- especially if someone else has already been in there -- no way I'd ever get it back together... :surrender:   The only thing I may do is find a gunsmith locally who can take it apart and clean the inside of it good.  Other than that, I'll probably do as y'all suggest and just let 'er be...

 

I wouldn't worry about getting inside of it unless something doesn't work.  The vast majority of revolvers (and semi-autos) are never stripped to that detail nor do they need it.  If you want to lube the innards just pull the trigger back and dump some oil in there.  It will get where it needs to be.

[mhl6493]

I wouldn't worry about getting inside of it unless something doesn't work.  The vast majority of revolvers (and semi-autos) are never stripped to that detail nor do they need it.  If you want to lube the innards just pull the trigger back and dump some oil in there.  It will get where it needs to be.

 

Thanks!  I'll just do that before I do anything any more invasive.  

[EssOne]

That could be... but it feels pretty normal to me.  Hope they didn't remove the hammer block...

It's easy to tell if it has been removed as it can be seen in front of the hammer going up and down as the hammer goes back and forth. But there are some safety procedures you have to observe to look in on it safely.

 

First, clear the gun and leave the cylinder open. OK, now keeping your trigger finger off of the trigger, we're going to pull back on the hammer like this: To ease the hammer back with the cylinder open, you simply move the cylinder release thumb piece back to the rear with one hand, and ease back on the hammer spur with the other hand - but don't cock the gun. 

 

As the hammer comes back, rock it gently back and forth and you will see a little black rectangular steel part moving up and down in front of the hammer, up against the frame. It will move downward as you move the hammer rearward, and upward when you move the hammer forward. That's the hammer block, or as it's sometimes called, the transfer bar or safety bar. If it isn't visible, or isn't moving with the hammer, don't load the gun until you can get it checked out by a gunsmith. Something is definitely wrong in that case and the gun cannot be considered safe.

 

OK, now make sure the hammer is fully down before closing the cylinder and you're good. Hope this helps.

 

BTW, there are some maintenance things you can do with your gun that are completely user doable, such as removing the cylinder and yoke. Back in the revolver days in LE, removing the cylinder and yoke were a required maintenance step in cleaning these guns. I carried a K frame Smith for 27 years and love them. I was an instructor on revolvers in four different commands, so I'll be glad to try and answer any user questions you may have. Best wishes.

 

EssOne

[DaveTN]

It’s not a collector and you don’t have anything in it. Time to learn. If you have any mechanical abilities all it’s really easy.

There are some common sense things you need to be carefully of; but a model 15 is a workhorse. Buy the Video “Trigger Job” by Jerry Miculek. Even if you don’t do the trigger job it shows you how to strip that gun down totally. Any questions you have can be answered here.

Besides that you can’t call yourself a firearm enthusiast if you are afraid to take the side plate off a Smith & Wesson.

I’d use this opportunity that has been dumped in your lap as a learning experience.

[Patton]

Unless it is already wore out I don't think you could afford enough plus p ammo to wear it out. To be honest, I wouldn't try to refinish it. There are a lot of "Smithophiles" like myself that just like a true original. Edited June 5, 2015 by Patton

[TNWNGR]

If you lived closer to my place I'd offer to take you through the disassembly, inspection, cleaning and reassembly process on your Smith. Heck a light action job isn't too difficult but I've never encountered a S&W K or N frame from the fifties or sixties that reały needed one. All I ever did was a detailed clean and lube.

[mhl6493]

It's easy to tell if it has been removed as it can be seen in front of the hammer going up and down as the hammer goes back and forth. But there are some safety procedures you have to observe to look in on it safely.

 

First, clear the gun and leave the cylinder open. OK, now keeping your trigger finger off of the trigger, we're going to pull back on the hammer like this: To ease the hammer back with the cylinder open, you simply move the cylinder release thumb piece back to the rear with one hand, and ease back on the hammer spur with the other hand - but don't cock the gun. 

 

As the hammer comes back, rock it gently back and forth and you will see a little black rectangular steel part moving up and down in front of the hammer, up against the frame. It will move downward as you move the hammer rearward, and upward when you move the hammer forward. That's the hammer block, or as it's sometimes called, the transfer bar or safety bar. If it isn't visible, or isn't moving with the hammer, don't load the gun until you can get it checked out by a gunsmith. Something is definitely wrong in that case and the gun cannot be considered safe.

 

OK, now make sure the hammer is fully down before closing the cylinder and you're good. Hope this helps.

 

BTW, there are some maintenance things you can do with your gun that are completely user doable, such as removing the cylinder and yoke. Back in the revolver days in LE, removing the cylinder and yoke were a required maintenance step in cleaning these guns. I carried a K frame Smith for 27 years and love them. I was an instructor on revolvers in four different commands, so I'll be glad to try and answer any user questions you may have. Best wishes.

 

EssOne

 

Thanks, EssOne!  I just checked using your method, and the hammer block is clearly moving up and down.  So it looks like I'm good to go.  And thanks for the offer relative to any other questions I might have.  I really do appreciate that - it's one of the things that keeps me coming back to the forum.  Folks here are just so helpful, and don't speak to you condescendingly or make you feel stupid for not knowing what they know.  I've learned a TON here.  I'll definitely keep your offer in mind, and I won't hesitate to drop you a message if something comes up.  Thanks again.

[mhl6493]

Again, thanks to all of you for your helpful responses.  I just gave her a good once-over with Ballistol - as you might expect, it was fairly dirty.  Didn't do much for the pitting and spotting on the finish, but I can live with that... 

[EssOne]

Thanks, EssOne!  I just checked using your method, and the hammer block is clearly moving up and down.  So it looks like I'm good to go.  And thanks for the offer relative to any other questions I might have.  I really do appreciate that - it's one of the things that keeps me coming back to the forum.  Folks here are just so helpful, and don't speak to you condescendingly or make you feel stupid for not knowing what they know.  I've learned a TON here.  I'll definitely keep your offer in mind, and I won't hesitate to drop you a message if something comes up.  Thanks again.

My pleasure sir. Sometimes I guess my obsolescence actually has some usefulness. :D

[EssOne]

MHL6493, here is what your Model 15 looks like on the inside. The part marked "HAMMER BLOCK" is the part you saw moving up and down when you moved the hammer. It is the only part that will fall out when the side plate is removed, being held in place by a matching groove in the underside of the sideplate. All of the other parts require a little gentle prying with a screwdriver to get out. This is a stainless steel Model 64 from 1970 I bought in almost unfired condition two years ago.

 

Edited June 6, 2015 by EssOne