Road rage idiots video

[LagerHead]

From the article:" As Sam filtered to the front of traffic at a stop light," I take that to mean he was going in between cars and not in a lane of his own, to get to the front, at the stop light. Not too smart, or too legal. Then he is going to drop the F word on the guy driving 2 tons of BMW, while he is sitting on 800 pounds of scooter. Again, not too smart.  I am in no way saying that the driver of the cage had a right to hit the guy on the bike. I hope they put him in jail and throw away the key. But, Sam doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb on the string, either. Like peejman said "That didn't work out quite so well".

 

While I would aggressively defend myself from a cager who tried to use his car as a weapon against me, I go to great lengths to not piss them off in the first place. I also don't shoot at Apaches with my 9mm for the exact same reason. It's just not smart to piss off people who have you so outgunned.

[crossfire]

Lane splitting is legal in certain areas, such as California, where this happened.

 I don't think it has passed yet, I see other states are thinking about it and Tn. is one of them. I guess squeezing between two cars is a good idea, as long as you have a helmet on. I'm sure California gave this idea as much thought as their gun laws. Just my :2cents:

[peejman]

 I don't think it has passed yet, I see other states are thinking about it and Tn. is one of them. I guess squeezing between two cars is a good idea, as long as you have a helmet on. I'm sure California gave this idea as much thought as their gun laws. Just my :2cents:

 

Not to completely derail the thread, but it works in CA and most of Europe and Asia because it's "normal" there and has been for generations.  (Almost) Everyone is accustomed to it.  While I don't have any real objection to it becoming legal here, I'm not real interested in being part of the learning curve. 

[Murgatroy]

Lane splitting is [i]usually[/i] done at an intersection, or when traffic is stopped. This is normally safe. It is a boon to allow two wheeled traffic to filter to the front.

 

IMO it would take a very large set of cojones to lane split/share while traffic is moving.

 

While lane splitting isn't explicitly legal in California (the laws are being clarified to state that it is legal) is is not explicitly illegal and has long been accepted.

[Hozzie]

IMO it would take a very large set of cojones to lane split/share while traffic is moving.

 

I agree, I don't think I would do it, but it happens all of time in Europe.  They (most) don't do it when cars are running above say 30km/h, but they do it all of the time in the cities.  I spend a lot of time in Brussels and I can tell you that even though I pay attention, you really have to "look" for motorcycles.  There is so much traffic and stop and go that one second there is nothing and the next, they are there.  You really just get used to looking for cars and then looking again for motorcycles.  

 

Keep in mind, over there, these aren't big touring Harley's running between lanes, these are mostly pure commuter size bikes and a ton of what we would consider scooters.  I would guess there are less accidents involving motorcycles per capita (even taking into consideration there are many more motorcycles on the road) than there is here even in states that don't allow lane splitting.  

Edited June 3, 2015 by Hozzie

[Trekbike]

Since we're talking about lane splitting, legal or not, it's not courtious IMO.

When I'm on my bicycle in traffic, since I wish to be considered a vehicle, I try to obey the laws and be courtious to other drivers. That means stopping at the red light in the position in line to which I arrived to the light. I treat myself as a vehicle and stay in line but to the side of the stopped car.

My theory is, if you've passed me once, I'm not going to make you pass me again by riding the edge of the road and jumping to the front of the line at the red light. That not courtious IMO.

It's the same principle as to why I pull my grocery cart to the side of the Isle rather than leaving it blocking the Isle like some folks.

[10-Ring]

Since we're talking about lane splitting, legal or not, it's not courtious IMO.

When I'm on my bicycle in traffic, since I wish to be considered a vehicle, I try to obey the laws and be courtious to other drivers. That means stopping at the red light in the position in line to which I arrived to the light. I treat myself as a vehicle and stay in line but to the side of the stopped car.

My theory is, if you've passed me once, I'm not going to make you pass me again by riding the edge of the road and jumping to the front of the line at the red light. That not courtious IMO.

It's the same principle as to why I pull my grocery cart to the side of the Isle rather than leaving it blocking the Isle like some folks.

Talking about bicycles and I'll agree with you, if were talking motorcycles I disagree because the motorcycle is unlikely to be in the cars way again.  I've ridden motorcycles in California and experienced lane splitting first hand.  I really liked the idea of it, especially moving around in urban areas because you can make it from A to B much more quickly.  If done properly there is no downside to lane splitting.  I do like that we can run red lights after stopping here in Tennessee but it sure would be nice to be able to lane split as well.

[Trekbike]

Talking about bicycles and I'll agree with you, if were talking motorcycles I disagree because the motorcycle is unlikely to be in the cars way again. 

 

I agree with that and can see your point but let me throw out a hypothetical situation.    Now I understand this won't be totally applicable to lane splitting, but there is a point to my story.    

 

Say you are in a crowd of folks that all walk up at the same time, and a line starts forming to enter some type of event.    Say that there is no seating at this event or any advantage to the place/number you are in line once you enter this event.    You are also guaranteed entry into the event.    For this scenario, you are 37th place in a line of 50.   Say person number 48 decides he wants to walk up to the front of the line and stand within the first five spots in line.    What is your initial reaction to guy #48 as he walks up to the front of the line?    

 

For me, I still wouldn't like what he did even though in the grand scheme of things, it didn't harm me in this case.      

[crossfire]

I agree with that and can see your point but let me throw out a hypothetical situation.    Now I understand this won't be totally applicable to lane splitting, but there is a point to my story.    

 

Say you are in a crowd of folks that all walk up at the same time, and a line starts forming to enter some type of event.    Say that there is no seating at this event or any advantage to the place/number you are in line once you enter this event.    You are also guaranteed entry into the event.    For this scenario, you are 37th place in a line of 50.   Say person number 48 decides he wants to walk up to the front of the line and stand within the first five spots in line.    What is your initial reaction to guy #48 as he walks up to the front of the line?    

 

For me, I still wouldn't like what he did even though in the grand scheme of things, it didn't harm me in this case.      

 

Kind of like being on the interstate going into a construction zone, you see the warning sign that says the right lane is closed 1 mile ahead. You move over to the left lane and traffic comes to a stop, well before the right lane is closed. A group from the back pays no attraction to the warning sign starts to pass on the right  and they expect you to let them in when the right lane ends. They are the ones that cause the backup! But you are supposed to yield to them because they have that "It's all about me" attitude.

[LagerHead]

I agree with that and can see your point but let me throw out a hypothetical situation.    Now I understand this won't be totally applicable to lane splitting, but there is a point to my story.    

 

Say you are in a crowd of folks that all walk up at the same time, and a line starts forming to enter some type of event.    Say that there is no seating at this event or any advantage to the place/number you are in line once you enter this event.    You are also guaranteed entry into the event.    For this scenario, you are 37th place in a line of 50.   Say person number 48 decides he wants to walk up to the front of the line and stand within the first five spots in line.    What is your initial reaction to guy #48 as he walks up to the front of the line?    

 

For me, I still wouldn't like what he did even though in the grand scheme of things, it didn't harm me in this case.      

 

The two situations are not analogous. You don't own your "spot" in traffic. And me being in front of you on a motorcycle is in no way going to hamper your progress. Trust me, if I am on a motorcycle and you can see my tail lights, it's because I just passed you. Give me about five seconds and your slow ass cage will be nothing but a fleeting memory. You don't have to slow down. You don't have to alter your plans. All you gotta do is continue sipping your latte while reading the paper, talking on the phone, shaving, and clipping your toe nails all while attempting to drive.

 

(The "you" is not you, it's just a random person.)

[peejman]

I agree with that and can see your point but let me throw out a hypothetical situation.    Now I understand this won't be totally applicable to lane splitting, but there is a point to my story.    

 

Say you are in a crowd of folks that all walk up at the same time, and a line starts forming to enter some type of event.    Say that there is no seating at this event or any advantage to the place/number you are in line once you enter this event.    You are also guaranteed entry into the event.    For this scenario, you are 37th place in a line of 50.   Say person number 48 decides he wants to walk up to the front of the line and stand within the first five spots in line.    What is your initial reaction to guy #48 as he walks up to the front of the line?    

 

For me, I still wouldn't like what he did even though in the grand scheme of things, it didn't harm me in this case.      

 

 

Hence my comment about not wanting to be part of the learning curve.  People are selfish and can't do math so think that being one car ahead or driving 5 mph faster somehow saves them vast amounts of time.

 

But again, if when the light turns green and that motorcycle jets off out of sight, you realize it's not a big deal.  It's not like cars where there's only so much space.  Motorcycles occupy the space between the cars and then are gone at the first opportunity.  The idea is, when people see how much easier the bikes get through the traffic, they'll want to get a bike too, and that will be one less car on the road. 

[tnguy]

Kind of like being on the interstate going into a construction zone, you see the warning sign that says the right lane is closed 1 mile ahead. You move over to the left lane and traffic comes to a stop, well before the right lane is closed. A group from the back pays no attraction to the warning sign starts to pass on the right  and they expect you to let them in when the right lane ends. They are the ones that cause the backup! But you are supposed to yield to them because they have that "It's all about me" attitude.

 

Using the full length of the lane is actually the more correct thing to do and some states are starting to recognize that in their laws.

 

It seems "unfair" because everyone gets over early and those that don't appear to be getting an advantage but if everyone were doing it correctly, it wouldn't be an issue.

 

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/

[tnguy]

In California, lane splitting is also supported by it being so hot all the time there. Having ridden in a country where it was legal for quite a while, I have to say, it's a good idea and should be legal.

 

Shouting at guys in BMWs texting is not a good idea though.

[10-Ring]

Kind of like being on the interstate going into a construction zone, you see the warning sign that says the right lane is closed 1 mile ahead. You move over to the left lane and traffic comes to a stop, well before the right lane is closed. A group from the back pays no attraction to the warning sign starts to pass on the right  and they expect you to let them in when the right lane ends. They are the ones that cause the backup! But you are supposed to yield to them because they have that "It's all about me" attitude.

Two different things.  In your example the people staying in the right lane until the last minute are delaying everyone behind them, a motorcycle lane splitting is not holding anyone up.

[10-Ring]

Using the full length of the lane is actually the more correct thing to do and some states are starting to recognize that in their laws.

 

It seems "unfair" because everyone gets over early and those that don't appear to be getting an advantage but if everyone were doing it correctly, it wouldn't be an issue.

 

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/

I've never heard of "zipper merging" before.  That's an interesting concept and I'm sure that it would work well if we could get everyone on board. 

[crossfire]

To get back to the OP, Spots is right, no matter what your driving "road rage"   is not the answer. You never know how the other guy is going to react.

[Murgatroy]

I've never heard of "zipper merging" before.  That's an interesting concept and I'm sure that it would work well if we could get everyone on board. 

Yeah, cause most drivers understand things like indicating before a turn or a lane change, or keeping right except to pass. We can't even get the basics like slowing before a stop or not texting and driving down, you think an advanced tactic like zipper merging is even a remote possibility?

[Gliderman166]

Shallow end of the gene pool......

[Trekbike]

Yeah, cause most drivers understand things like indicating before a turn or a lane change, or keeping right except to pass. We can't even get the basics like slowing before a stop or not texting and driving down, you think an advanced tactic like zipper merging is even a remote possibility?

Agreed, the only way zippering would work is to use alternating lights like they use in areas with metered interstate entrance ramps.

[tnguy]

Yeah, cause most drivers understand things like indicating before a turn or a lane change, or keeping right except to pass. We can't even get the basics like slowing before a stop or not texting and driving down, you think an advanced tactic like zipper merging is even a remote possibility?

 

I see it every morning where 840 joins 65 heading north and it actually works pretty well. A few people do still get over early but many do not because it's usually not that easy so they go to the end and merge. If traffic is light, people move over early and it just works smoothly.

 

Construction traffic is exactly the same idea but starts off with a bit of a different mindset (people are on the same road, not joining) so people try to be "polite" and get over early leading to the issues as observed. Thus you end up with two different mindsets of people and the ensuing annoyances. It's really should be a rule made as clear as other rules and then the issue becomes a non-issue.

 

It took me a while to become convinced about the zipper merge so if you still don't see it right away, give it some time to mull it over.

 

The primary error people (including myself previously) make is thinking that if everyone got over early, traffic would move through the constriction smoothly. This is not true. The backup is caused by the amount of traffic trying to move through a confined space. The backup will occur, it's just about how it's resolved. Also bear in mind that a backup that uses multiple lanes is less likely to cause snarl-ups at other places (such as junctions) further back than the same amount of traffic in a single lane.

Edited June 8, 2015 by tnguy

[Murgatroy]

I see it every morning where 840 joins 65 heading north and it actually works pretty well. A few people do still get over early but many do not because it's usually not that easy so they go to the end and merge. If traffic is light, people move over early and it just works smoothly.

 

Construction traffic is exactly the same idea but starts off with a bit of a different mindset (people are on the same road, not joining) so people try to be "polite" and get over early leading to the issues as observed. Thus you end up with two different mindsets of people and the ensuing annoyances. It's really should be a rule made as clear as other rules and then the issue becomes a non-issue.

 

It took me a while to become convinced about the zipper merge so if you still don't see it right away, give it some time to mull it over.

 

The primary error people (including myself previously) make is thinking that if everyone got over early, traffic would move through the constriction smoothly. This is not true. The backup is caused by the amount of traffic trying to move through a confined space. The backup will occur, it's just about how it's resolved. Also bear in mind that a backup that uses multiple lanes is less likely to cause snarl-ups at other places (such as junctions) further back than the same amount of traffic in a single lane.

I am not saying it is a bad idea.

 

I am saying that people are stupid and they won't grasp the concept.

[teecro]

There was also a 2nd video of the truck driving asshat basically proving that he is just that an asshat.... He is filmed following the bikes around in town and throwing a bottle at them.... 

[Trekbike]

 

 

I am saying that people are stupid and they won't grasp the concept.

 

I heard that...they can't even grasp the concept that when a traffic light is out, such as in a power failure, to treat the intersection as a 4 way stop.   

[jphillips63]

So the guy in the truck clearly was putting the guys on the motorcycles lives at risk is this correct based on the video shown? If so and the motorcycle rider had a handgun and permit if he had shot the driver in the truck would this been a clear case of self defense?

[peejman]

So the guy in the truck clearly was putting the guys on the motorcycles lives at risk is this correct based on the video shown? If so and the motorcycle rider had a handgun and permit if he had shot the driver in the truck would this been a clear case of self defense?

Depends on the laws in that state. Some states have an "obligation to retreat" type law, which neither did in this case.