ATF 41P Update

[FightingSheepDog]

ATF has announced that a final decision regarding 41P, a regulation change that will FORCE ALL APPLICANTS TO SUBMIT PHOTOGRAPHS, FINGERPRINTS, AND THE SIGNATURE OF THE CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, will take place in December 2015.

 

For those of you who live in an area where the CLEO is uncooperative, this will mean you will be UNABLE TO PURCHASE, TRANSFER, OR BUILD NFA firearms such as suppressors, short barrelled rifles, short barreled shotguns, destruct...ive devices, or AOWs unless you live in a state that has a "Shall Certify" law in place.

 

Any pending applications or those already approved WILL NOT BE AFFECTED. New applications submitted after 41P will have to follow the new regulations.

 

*Fighting Sheep Dog is not a law firm and is not authorized to provide legal advice.

 

 

[peejman]

TN is a "shall certify" state, right?  My understanding is you don't ask the CLEO's permission, you simply require acknowledgement via signature. 

[btq96r]

If the NRA can leverage their power and beat this back, I might take back some of the mean spirited things I've said about them.

 

Time will tell.

[jmevis]

If i'm reading the Reginfo.gov web site correctly, it states that they will make a decision December 2015. Not that the new ruling goes in to effect. And if I'm not mistaken they have pushed that date many many times. 

Edited May 28, 2015 by jmevis

[LagerHead]

If the NRA can leverage their power and beat this back, I might take back some of the mean spirited things I've said about them.

 

Time will tell.

 

Does the NRA have any power when it comes to BATFE? I was under the impression that BATFE was like the EPA: We make the laws and screw you if you don't like them. In other words, they are above the law.

[cj0e]

Does the NRA have any power when it comes to BATFE? I was under the impression that BATFE was like the EPA: We make the laws and screw you if you don't like them. In other words, they are above the law.

 

 

Definitely nothing directly with regards to the BATFE. If a case were to come up through the court system they could get behind it. They could also lobby congress to pass legislation restricting the BATFE. I wouldn't hold my breath on either.

[LagerHead]

Definitely nothing directly with regards to the BATFE. If a case were to come up through the court system they could get behind it. They could also lobby congress to pass legislation restricting the BATFE. I wouldn't hold my breath on either.

 

Agreed. It's kinda like the Fed: Every now and then a politician who needs a few votes will huff and puff and promise to do something about these agencies that are outside the law knowing full well that it will never get enough votes to go anywhere. They can then show that they "introduced a bill" to do something worthwhile and blame its failure on everyone else.

[maroonandwhite]

I'd be surprised if they don't push it back more. They will get an insane amount of applications after releasing this statement (more money for them). Wait times are also about to skyrocket. I am in no way for the change but I really got the trust for the other benefits it provides over the fact that I can bypass those three initial things. Those that did it just to bypass that will be pissed.  :pleased:

[jacob]

Glad I e-filed my form 1 a few days ago...hopefully I will still get the 70-90 day processing time, wishing I would have filed sooner.  My AR SBR came back in just over 30 days at the end of last year, but funds weren't there to do the AK SBR at that time...

[samson7x]

That date has been pushed back a couple of times now.  I wouldn't be surprised if they pushed it back again. 

[btq96r]

Does the NRA have any power when it comes to BATFE? I was under the impression that BATFE was like the EPA: We make the laws and screw you if you don't like them. In other words, they are above the law.

 

This is like the proposed green tip ban, where enough public resistance can make BAFTE back down.  Admittedly, it's not as impactful to the gun community as the green tip ban was, but I think the fact that it is going after dedicated shooters is a deliberate act.  The NRA could shake the tree, spin up the grassroots, put Congressman on notice know they expect them to support or sponsor legislation to prohibit it, lest they find a challenger getting the funding, or their own rating downgraded, etc...

 

I'm not sure if BAFTE is really going to go through with it in December, but that's the best time if they were.  America will be focused on Xmas shopping, vacations and their own personal lives, while the beginning of next year brings about the Presentational primary season, and plenty of other issues will push this down in importance.  Perfect time to slide in something they've wanted for a good bit.

[JohnC]

So on a trust, would the fingerprints, background by CLEO and CLEO signature only have to be done once for all NFA items purchased under said trust, or every time you buy an NFA item?

We need to fight this BS just like we did M855. No more regulatory power to the BATFE over 2A rights. :down:

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

I'd assume once enforced every time as it is under individual. If Trusts have to do this I'd expect corps would now have to as well. Still a ton of unanswered whats and ifs though. The extended employee based of corps is going to be an interesting one.


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[FightingSheepDog]

(Again, we are not attorneys, nor do we play them on TV...) Here's the thing that makes THIS particular case more interesting...

 

In any instance where the ATF wants to modify or change something, they have to open up the change to comments/complaints from the general public. They're still weeding through the 310,000 comments they received when they tried to ban green tip ammo.

 

This is the reason that 41P has had attempts at passing: 2x in 2012, 2x in 2013, 2x in 2014, once in 2015.

 

Here's where it gets tricky -

 

The DOJ has taken over 41P from the ATF and therefore doesn't have to open anything up to any public commentary whatsoever. That means, at some point in December (a date yet to be named, to my knowledge), they can vote, pass, and enact the changes without public "interference".

 

For this reason, we've been encouraging our customers to place their suppressor order BEFORE end of business on November 30th. You don't want to risk waking up on December 1st to find that they've already voted. My understanding is that, even if you've only ordered the suppressor and have your trust, but haven't applied for your stamp, that you're grandfathered in. I'll want to double check on that, though.

 

Again, due diligence in this issue is up to the buyer and questions on this issue taken up with a licensed attorney. We aren't lawyers. :)

[maroonandwhite]

Any updates on this that anyone knows of? Couldn't find anything online.

[Dolomite_supafly]

They are supposedly going to make a decision in December. The decision could be to extend it again or pass it or even decide not to do it.

[maroonandwhite]

They are supposedly going to make a decision in December. The decision could be to extend it again or pass it or even decide not to do it.

Sounds like I need to go ahead and pick out a suppressor. Not that that would stop me from getting one but I'd rather dodge the headache.

[Dolomite_supafly]

But honestly I think it will just be another extension and maybe be used as a parting shot.

[samson7x]

Sounds like I need to go ahead and pick out a suppressor. Not that that would stop me from getting one but I'd rather dodge the headache.

 

 

No rush.  This has been going on for how long now?