Money spent ≠ results.

[Caster]

I recently finished up a new build. [AR-15] I waited on giving it a stenciled finish and I'm glad I did.  I knew I might have to tear it down again.

 

It starts life as a Quentin billet lower, Magpul A2 stock and ALG trigger group.

Vltor upper receiver, Nickel Boron BCG, Yankee Hill Todd Jarrett rifle length free float tube, Nikon M223 3-12x42SF glass and...my barrel.  The subject of this post.

 

I ordered what I WANTED.  ...or what I THOUGHT I wanted.  A Black Hole Weaponry, 18in, .930 diameter, rifle length gas, 1/9 twist stainless barrel.  It was .......pricey.  Everything went together and it shot like poop.  No, sorry, it shot like f'n sh!t.   Sorry, but that's actually appropriate.  Here's why.

First go 'round, I shot some handloads that have always done well in all my other rifles.  My 9 twist CZ bolt action will make clover leafs with any of them.  Some 52g Nosler HPBT's,  55g Vmax,  & some 70g soft points that are swaged by a fella I know up in Montana.  Shotgun patterns! No really. The 70g soft points were not measurable because I only had a 6 inch scale with me.  They were well over 8 inches at 100 yards.  ...and before the twist rate thing gets brought up, twist rate needs are a function of length not weight and the 70g soft points are swaged from a pretty thin brass jacket and a large ogive.  The length of the bullet is only .870, conversely a 55g vmax is about .820.  AND, all the lighter stuff shot like poop too.

 

Anyway, maybe I'm a sucky reloader so I broke my sacred vows and bought some factory ammo.

Best of (4) five round groups fired from a VERY solid rested position.

PPU 69g HPBT match 3.5" @ 100 yards

PPU 55g soft points, over 4 inches @ 100

Hornady TAP 55g - 2.8" @ 100

Hornady Varmint Express 40g Vmax - 2.1 @ 100

 

This BLOWS.  SO, today I go back to my local guy.  He's AWESOME BTW, he sells TOP shelf knives and AR parts here in town.  He's not happy at all and he jerks the barrel out and sticks in another while he deals with BHW on a possible return.  He didn't have to, but that's the kind of guy he is.

Now i'm running a Black Hole Weaponry, 18inch, mid-length gas, HBar profile, 1/8 twist.  MUCH lighter BTW, my GOD it's lighter.  LOL!

It's also about $75-100 cheaper than the one I had.  

 

I couldn't get to my range to shoot on a nice solid concrete bench with my rifle rest and electric golf cart to the 100 yard line.  I had to go to a buddy's farm.  I stepped off 125[ish] yards because 100 was right in a big ditch.  Soaking wet, wearing shorts so my legs were eat up from briars, pouring rain, I had to stand on the back bumper of my Toyota FJ and use a rolled up blanket for rest on the roof of my FJ just to see the target through the weeds.

20 rounds of PPu 55g FMJ......about 2.5 inches.  For all 20 mind you.

20 rounds of 70g soft points loaded over 4064 [I forget the charge, that's why I keep good notes.LOL]......right at 2.0 inches.  All 20 rounds now, not five round groups that can tell lies.

I only shot two groups, I didn't wanna be out there.

This was under very crappy conditions.  Fat and outta breath by the time I got back to my shooting position.  

Well rested (me and the rifle :rofl: ] it will do exponentially better.  A little load development....yeah, there it is!!!!   :up:  :up:  :up:

 

 

 

Moral of this stupid boring story?

Money spent doesn't equal results.  Buying everything off the top shelf doesn't necessarily give you a top shelf rifle.  

[Caster]

Ohh yeah, and another thing I forgot!

 

The NiBo BCG I bought.  I was getting some inconsistent ignition at first.  The firing pin protrusion was only .022

Minimum spec according to Colt standards [only one I could find] is .028 minimum with .030-.032 being optimum.  Turns out, the firing pin was three hairs short. DOH!  Cheap fix though and the one I replaced it with put me at .030 exactly, so saith my depth mic.  

 

 

Just cause it's made by reputable folks don't mean you should trust it!!!!!

[Garufa]

Money spent doesn't equal results.  Buying everything off the top shelf doesn't necessarily give you a top shelf rifle.  

 

Truer words were never spoken and it also applies to everything in life.

[Caster]

Yep, the wife said, "it sure did cost a lot to do no better than that!"
I said, A Lamborghini cost a quarter of a million dollars too, but wonder who would win a race from Maine to California, The Lambo or a Suzuki Hyabusa? I'm betting the Lambo would need a wrench turned somewhere around Nebraska. The Suzuki? Probably not. Edited May 25, 2015 by Caster

[Trekbike]

Glad things got worked out.   Just curious, any idea what was up with the barrel?   

[gregintenn]

That's the way the ball bounces.

 

I recently helped my son build a cheapie AR, and I'll be d@mned if it won't outshoot anything I own!

 

You never know til you shoot it.

[Caster]

Glad things got worked out.   Just curious, any idea what was up with the barrel?

None whatsoever.

[dcloudy777]

I'll stay tuned to see how BHW handles this.  They have a pretty good rep, but I've never had any dealings with them personally.

[Caster]

I figure I'll have a better chance being as a dealer who sells a lot of them is handling the return as opposed to me, who only bought one.  

Edited May 26, 2015 by Caster

[EssOne]

One time back in  the late 60's my boss and I went shooting to zero our rifles before a big deer hunt to Utah. He had a beeeyouuuuutifuuuull scoped Prewar Model 70 .270 and I had a M1895 Chilean Mauser 7x57mm with click adjustable peeps on it and nothing more done to it. I had bought the rifle for $29 brand spanking new and he had a fortune in his Model 70. The old Mauser shot the pants off of his Model 70. Go figger. I didn't get too many weekends off after that. :pleased:

[FightingSheepDog]

Wow. We're a dealer for BHW and have purchased numerous barrels from them in the past, from 5.56, .264LBC, and even 204 Ruger. We've never had a lick of issues with them.

 

I'll be watching this thread to see how they handle your situation (and if they tell you what was wrong with the barrel, too).

 

Did you buy it directly from BHW or was it another company selling it on their behalf? Just curious.

[Caster]

Wow. We're a dealer for BHW and have purchased numerous barrels from them in the past, from 5.56, .264LBC, and even 204 Ruger. We've never had a lick of issues with them.

 

I'll be watching this thread to see how they handle your situation (and if they tell you what was wrong with the barrel, too).

 

Did you buy it directly from BHW or was it another company selling it on their behalf? Just curious.

 

A local vendor here in Fairview is a stocking dealer.  He's an awesome guy as I said.  The BHW barrel he replaced it with shoots nice so far.  Gotta get to my range and a more solid platform to know just how well.  

He seems rather confident that they will handle the situation, especially since we're going with another BHW barrel.  

[Caster]

.....and for the record, I don't want anyone thinking this is a 'Bash BHW' thread.  I don't care who you are, or what you manufacture, you WILL get a dud every once in a while.  AND, who knows, someone else might torque this thing into their rifle and shoot one hole groups at 500 yards....NO way of knowing.  

 

BHW makes VERY nicely made stuff.  

Caster is just a no luck crap magnet.  

Edited May 28, 2015 by Caster

[MacGyver]

Yeah, I've got that same barrel profile in .308 and it shoots great.

 

Any manufacturer is going to produce a dog every now and then.  What separates the men from the boys is what they do about the issue when they find out about it.  I'm sure BHW will take care of it.  Your dealer pretty much already confirmed this by his willingness to take the burden off of you.

[Ted S.]

Maybe just a bunk/defected barrel? With the twist rate you had on it it should have worked fine for the lighter loads you were using.

[dcloudy777]

If I had to venture a guess I'd say there was some sort of rifling defect at the crown, just far enough from the muzzle that QC didn't see it.  Stuff happens.

Edited June 4, 2015 by dcloudy777

[Troutburger]

That sucks it wouldn't shoot.

I know the feeling of being a crap magnet all too well. 

[jmevis]

Wait a guy in Fairview? Is it a small shop that is shared with his son's audio visual company? If so i know the place you are talking about. He is super awesome! I forget the name of the shop right now.... I have built 7 ARs now. (not all for me) and I agree with you. I've found that the part I like to spend the most on is the barrel, followed by the rail, then the trigger (if funds allow). 

 

I've had to shoot out of my FJ too! 

 

I never heard of BHW. In that price range I've had a lot of luck with Spikes Tactical Barrels. This 14.5 Noveske Afghan barrel is the best one i have ever owned. 

 

But it sounds like it was a faulty barrel, I'm glad it worked out. Interested in how the CS is.

Edited June 4, 2015 by jmevis

[Caster]

Yes it is that guy. I won't give his name or company name as he is not a vendor and that is NOT fair to our vendor sponsors here at TGO.





.....but you're right he is super awesome. Edited June 4, 2015 by Caster

[Caster]

New barrel slightly better. 55g Vmax performed best. Two (10) round groups @ 100 yards. 1st group was 1.3" and 2nd was better as I started relax and control my breathing better, .9 inches.
Interesting to note, both groups measured UNDER .5 inches vertically. Spread was all horizontally.


Calling this little problem done. It can only get better with a little load development.

[Caster]

Meant to post about this and it slipped my mind until just now when another thread reminded me.

 

BHW responded to my local vendor.  They tested the barrel we sent back.  They were SUPER nice and polite but strangely silent on any actual reasons the first barrel did not shoot well.  We sent it back to them as per their instructions [on their dime BTW] because they wanted to test it before deciding what to do about it.

 

Well, my local vendor told me all they would say was...."We will replace it with one just like, or anything of equal value OR refund the money. Your choice."  When he asked what the issue was with the first barrel, they were as I said, strangely but politely silent one the matter.  I'm guessing they found a very serious/obvious defect and feel somewhat embarrassed about it.  

 

I'm happy with the new BHW barrel I am running now and he told them so.  They were happy I was happy and still running their product and told my vendor, "We'll take care you".  That's that!

 

I would have like to have know the issue with the first barrel but obviously it must've been a sore spot for them so they jus threw a little money at it and made it go away with a sincere apology attached.  

 

Pretty darn cool in my book.  I was a machinist for a time.  I understand, it don't matter how much you put into your manufacturing and how skilled your workers are, STUFF HAPPENS.  It's just life.  Making it right is what keeps you number one.  SO, this is definitely my endorsement for Black Hole Weaponry.  

[Mark A]

glad they took care of you. 

 

Good customer service is almost always cheaper than bad customer service. It amazes me how many companies don't get that...