Looks like more of the same for .22LR, time to get a pellet rifle

[graycrait]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-gun-owners-hoard-bullets-in-face-of-feared-shortage-of-ammunition-from-u-s

[TN Volunteer]

I gave up on .22LR, as I stated in another thread.

 

Don`t have any problems nowadays finding pellets and the critters that I hit, hate `em.

 

.25 caliber. Break barrel rifle. Scope, and "thump", to the intended target.

 

I`m happy. :)

[Randall53]

I gave up on .22LR, as I stated in another thread.

 

Don`t have any problems nowadays finding pellets and the critters that I hit, hate `em.

 

.25 caliber. Break barrel rifle. Scope, and "thump", to the intended target.

 

I`m happy. :)

I'm really close to getting a pellet gun myself. I've been looking at them and doing research, but there are a LOT of them out there. I'm definitely going above a 177 caliber. I didn't know hey made a 25 caliber. I'll have to check into that.

[gjohnsoniv]

I'm really close to getting a pellet gun myself. I've been looking at them and doing research, but there are a LOT of them out there. I'm definitely going above a 177 caliber. I didn't know hey made a 25 caliber. I'll have to check into that.

Heck, they make a .357 pellet gun.

[monkeylizard]

Anyone else notice that they get bullets at the tire store up there?

[No_0ne]

Heck, they make a .357 pellet gun.

 

Now that's what I'm talking about, magnum pellet guns ...

[Randall53]

Heck, they make a .357 pellet gun.

 

Yeah right.... :shake:

[hipower]

Heck, they make a .357 pellet gun.

 
 

Yeah right.... :shake:

Well...it might be bigger than the .177 pellet, but the .357 pellet is still just a lump of lead. Just like the other.

[Randall53]

 
 

Well...it might be bigger than the .177 pellet, but the .357 pellet is still just a lump of lead. Just like the other.

 

I bet that sucker's hard to pump up!!!  LOL :rofl:

[nightrunner]

http://www.quackenbushairguns.com

.308. .458 and .50 caliber air guns.

[graycrait]

http://www.pyramydair.com/

 

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/

 

http://www.airgundepot.com/

[JAB]

There used to be a show on one of the outdoor channels (might still be for all I know) called "American Airgunner" or something like that.  They showed people with very high-powered, large caliber. single shot airguns cleanly taking wild hogs, white-tailed deer and something that looked like a big-horn sheep (but in Africa, iirc.)  To the best of my recollection, they fired a (lead? steel?) ball.  Those things are no joke.  They are, however, expensive and, IMO, too much of a PITA to fool with.  Many of them must have their reserve filled from a scuba tank or similar.  They also appeared like they would be more trouble than a firearm to take care of (I don't consider airguns to be firearms because, well, there is no fire involved in shooting them.)  I think I'd go with a modern muzzle-loader before I'd fool with one of those.

 

I have a basic, run of the mill .177 air rifle (an old Daisy Cobra that I have had for years), a Crosman Pumpmaster 'target' pistol and a Crosman revolver made to look like a long-barreled .357 that runs on CO2 cartridges.  They are all pretty accurate and I can hit targets with the handguns about as well as with comparable .22 handguns - as long as the boredom induced yawning that starts after about five or ten minutes doesn't throw me off.  Okay, so the yawning might be a bit of a hyperbole but the fact that I find airguns boring is not.  I could never see replacing a .22 with an airgun no matter how fancy or high-powered - but that is just me.  Honestly, the 'bang', the smoke and the smell of gunpowder are a big part of the plinking experience, for me.

 

I did just give myself an idea, though.  The only muzzle-loader I have ever fired was my old musket style.  Modern, inline muzzle-loaders seem like they would be much less of a PITA.  Maybe some company should capitalize on the current lack of .22LR ammo and mass produce a small-caliber, rifled muzzle loader to be sold at a good price at the big box stores..  Imagine if it could fire both a heavier version of the .22 caliber BB and a heavier version of the .22 caliber hunting pellets.  Build them strong enough and, with the proper load data, the shooter could load light and use a lighter weight projectile to mimic a .22 Short, load at a medium level to mimic a .22LR or load heavy (maybe even with a heavier projectile of, say, 50 grains or so) and get velocities and energy levels comparable to those of .22WMR (.22 Magnum.)  All in one gun.  Powder charges would be so small - even for .22WMR power levels - that a jug of black powder or Pyrodex would last a really long time.  Surely some company would rather quickly make bullet molds.  According to the hunting regs on the TWRA website, muzzle-loading rifles of .36 and smaller are legal for hunting small game.

[E4 No More]

"Manufacturers in the U.S., such as Remington Arms Co. LLC and Winchester Ammunition, have been able to ramp up production of centre-fired, higher velocity bullets to meet increased demand, but they are unable to do the same for the rim-fired .22s, which are tougher and more expensive to make."

 

And just how are they tougher and more expensive to make?

[JAB]

"Manufacturers in the U.S., such as Remington Arms Co. LLC and Winchester Ammunition, have been able to ramp up production of centre-fired, higher velocity bullets to meet increased demand, but they are unable to do the same for the rim-fired .22s, which are tougher and more expensive to make."

 

And just how are they tougher and more expensive to make?

 

That didn't make a lot of sense to me, either.

 

I mean, rimfire ammo uses less powder, less lead and other materials than centerfire.  There is no jacketing process with .22LR.  Rimfire ammo does not require the extra step of physically putting a primer - wihich is a separate part - into the casing.  How couold it possibly be more expensive?  Surely the machinery to 'spin' the primer inside the casing doesn't cost that much.

 

My hunch - and this makes more sense, to me - would be that the ammo companies' return on investment may not be as high when setting up new lines to expand rimfire production - especially .22LR.  The reason I think that might be the case is that the machinery, etc. probably costs about the same so the initial investment is likely close to that of setting up a new centerfire line.  However, as the price on .22LR ammo is comparably low relative to centerfire ammo the companies probably don't see as much of a profit margin.  That is just my WAG.

Edited May 20, 2015 by JAB

[Caster]

 

My hunch - and this makes more sense, to me - would be that the ammo companies' return on investment may not be as high when setting up new lines to expand rimfire production - especially .22LR.  The reason I think that might be the case is that the machinery, etc. probably costs about the same so the initial investment is likely close to that of setting up a new centerfire line.  However, as the price on .22LR ammo is comparably low relative to centerfire ammo the companies probably don't see as much of a profit margin.  That is just my WAG.

 

 

Obviously we can't substantiate this but I buy it.  It takes a lot of work to make .22's and there's little money it.  They'd have to increase the price accordingly to offset it, at least until they recoup their investment.....and if you think the rimfire whiners cry like babies now [because of second hand sales for profit] you'd NEVER hear the end of their incessant wails should the manufacturers increase their prices!!!!

[TN Volunteer]

Yeah right.... :shake:

Hey Randall,

 

What would you say if I could offer you a source for a 1012 grain pellet? Curious as to what the caliber may be?

 

That is not a typo. :cool:

Edited May 20, 2015 by TN Volunteer

[E4 No More]

That didn't make a lot of sense to me, either.

 

I mean, rimfire ammo uses less powder, less lead and other materials than centerfire.  There is no jacketing process with .22LR.  Rimfire ammo does not require the extra step of physically putting a primer - wihich is a separate part - into the casing.  How couold it possibly be more expensive?  Surely the machinery to 'spin' the primer inside the casing doesn't cost that much.

 

My hunch - and this makes more sense, to me - would be that the ammo companies' return on investment may not be as high when setting up new lines to expand rimfire production - especially .22LR.  The reason I think that might be the case is that the machinery, etc. probably costs about the same so the initial investment is likely close to that of setting up a new centerfire line.  However, as the price on .22LR ammo is comparably low relative to centerfire ammo the companies probably don't see as much of a profit margin.  That is just my WAG.

I agree to an extent, but the money in 22LR is volume; not price. Although I have no facts to back it up I perceive that people blast through a heck of a lot more 22LR than they would center fire.

[TN Volunteer]

I'm really close to getting a pellet gun myself. I've been looking at them and doing research, but there are a LOT of them out there. I'm definitely going above a 177 caliber. I didn't know hey made a 25 caliber. I'll have to check into that.

The new stuff even blows my mind.

 

I like .177 but I hit a few targets with it and they were still stubborn. Then I found out about .25.

 

It has a kick to it like a real rifle and is heavier than some firearms that I am shooting.

 

Something else, airguns are tricky to master. If you can master them, your regular firearm shooting will improve. Mine has. :)

[E4 No More]

The new stuff even blows my mind.

 

I like .177 but I hit a few targets with it and they were still stubborn. Then I found out about .25.

 

It has a kick to it like a real rifle and is heavier than some firearms that I am shooting.

 

Something else, airguns are tricky to master. If you can master them, your regular firearm shooting will improve. Mine has. :)

Heck, I learned to shoot with a BB gun with no sights! :)

[TN Volunteer]

Heck, I learned to shoot with a BB gun with no sights! :)

LOL!

 

Dawg!

 

I had all kinds of fun in my younger days with a Daisy Powerline multi-pump rifle. I could hit anything with it and the 4X Tasco scope that I bought from K Mart.

 

The newer one that I bought a few years ago, was.......lets just say that......the accuracy that I expected from the rifle was, not what I knew from my older one. Was disappointed.

 

I lost the front sight of my old rifle in tall grass one day :wall: . The rifle went into the trash maybe a week later.

Edited May 20, 2015 by TN Volunteer

[No_0ne]

"Manufacturers in the U.S., such as Remington Arms Co. LLC and Winchester Ammunition, have been able to ramp up production of centre-fired, higher velocity bullets to meet increased demand, but they are unable to do the same for the rim-fired .22s, which are tougher and more expensive to make."

 

And just how are they tougher and more expensive to make?

 

 

That didn't make a lot of sense to me, either.

 

I mean, rimfire ammo uses less powder, less lead and other materials than centerfire.  There is no jacketing process with .22LR.  Rimfire ammo does not require the extra step of physically putting a primer - wihich is a separate part - into the casing.  How couold it possibly be more expensive?  Surely the machinery to 'spin' the primer inside the casing doesn't cost that much.

 

My hunch - and this makes more sense, to me - would be that the ammo companies' return on investment may not be as high when setting up new lines to expand rimfire production - especially .22LR.  The reason I think that might be the case is that the machinery, etc. probably costs about the same so the initial investment is likely close to that of setting up a new centerfire line.  However, as the price on .22LR ammo is comparably low relative to centerfire ammo the companies probably don't see as much of a profit margin.  That is just my WAG.

 

I once wondered pretty much the same thing, then I watched the videos of CCI's process for making 22lr.  The equipment involved is much larger and more expensive than machines like the ones typically used for mass production of centerfire ammo, unlike centerfire ammo 22lr production is caliber-specific, and there was a shocking amount of hand labor involved in the production process.  It's long been known that profit margins were very low in rimfire ammunition production, after watching those videos I was amazed that 22lr ever sold as cheaply as what we came to believe as "normal".  It's easy for me to understand why manufacturers are reluctant to build the new factories and purchase the new equipment required to ramp up production, raising prices is probably a lot better option for their bottom lines, which is after all the primary function of ammunition production ...

[DaveTN]

I think we will be okay with .22, we are seeing it on shelves again.

CCI (The only one I care about in .22 ) and Federal among others are owned by ATK. ATK is a monster corporation, if they thought the demand would remain; I’m sure they would make the huge capitol expenditures it would take to increase production. But that would cause them a loss if the demand drops and we are knee deep in .22 ammo.

Part of the shortage is because of many new people getting interested in shooting; but most of it is panic buying and some trying to make a buck. It will level out and if the demand stays high I think we will see increased production.

But yeah, all you guys switch to air rifles and the rest of us will shoot up your share.

[10-Ring]

LOL!

 

Dawg!

 

I had all kinds of fun in my younger days with a Daisy Powerline multi-pump rifle. I could hit anything with it and the 4X Tasco scope that I bought from K Mart.

 

The newer one that I bought a few years ago, was.......lets just say that......the accuracy that I expected from the rifle was, not what I knew from my older one. Was disappointed.

 

I lost the front sight of my old rifle in tall grass one day :wall: . The rifle went into the trash maybe a week later.

 

I remember as a kid having me Daisy Eagle which went about everywhere I went except for school.  I'd give anything to have the skill with my rifles today that I had with that gun shooting BBs.  I could pick a random target and figure distance, the number of pumps, and adjust holdover and hit my target the vast majority of the time. 

[TN Volunteer]

but most of it is panic buying and some trying to make a buck.
But yeah, all you guys switch to air rifles and the rest of us will shoot up your share.

The first statement I think, holds some truth.

The second statement, I am OK with also. I love to step out on the back porch and not have to worry about my projectile traveling too far to go where it shouldn`t. The neighbors don`t care either.

 

You can have my share. I have had a great time using something that got the job done and didn`t get me arrested from using it in my backyard. :)

[TN Volunteer]

I remember as a kid having me Daisy Eagle which went about everywhere I went except for school.  I'd give anything to have the skill with my rifles today that I had with that gun shooting BBs.  I could pick a random target and figure distance, the number of pumps, and adjust holdover and hit my target the vast majority of the time. 

You have more going for you with that airgun, than I ever thought about!

 

I would just go to 10 pumps and let `er rip! :)