Tennessee Man Admits Plotting Armed Militia Attack, Firebombing Of Muslim Community In New York

[nightrunner]

You can say that again. :up: A 9mm is ok for frogs and stuff :)

And the French.

[TrickyNicky]

I can't think of anything else politically correct to say about any of it. The jihadis or the nutbag from the OP. I heard he was gay, though.

And something about a cake.

 

 

Good show my friend. Well played.

 

:D

 

/Thread

[MrsMonkeyMan2500]

.45 is God's caliber though and it's power is unmatched.

What about 10mm? I love my .45 but that new 10mm has been amazingly fun when target shooting.

[TrickyNicky]

What about 10mm? I love my .45 but that new 10mm has been amazingly fun when target shooting.

 

 

I SAID " /THREAD !!!1!>?1! :angry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D

Edited May 19, 2015 by TrickyNicky

[E4 No More]

I get that Islam is more "kill the non-believers" than tolerance by the letter of its law.  But this man used his religious beliefs to justify a plan for mass murder.  At best he's an old testament type of guy, and that part of the bible would probably be in agreement with him.

 

I'm honestly more perturbed that this guy is getting off quite light for what he was coordinating to do, and that there isn't much mainstream coverage.

Wrong, because he's not an old testament Jew. Most people fail to understand this passage.

 

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[Hershmeister]

One christian whacko does not create a moral equivilance of islam's utter and total hatred of non-muslims

Please square this circle:


Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (9:29)

The jizya is a tax


Or

The Jews “strive to do mischief on earth” – that is, fasaad, for which the punishment is specified in 5:33: “they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land.


Or this gem that is part of the hamas charter:

The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,' except for the Gharqad tree, for it is the tree of the Jews.' (Recorded in the Hadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim)

[Ugly]

Seems fishy to me.

[KKing]

You think gays should be able to marry and be miserable like the rest of us? I'm willing to bet there'd be less of those parades if so. They'd be too busy being miserable

[Good_Steward]

Kwik, is that you???

 

Hahahahahaha...good times. 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Good_Steward

[Pete123]

Have you seen this: https://youtu.be/90JNEJj4YOg , there are plenty more from other countries but I'll let you get some of these yourself as it makes me feel dirty looking through these.

Omega,

Thanks for sharing. Understand that I'm not a terrorist loving liberal who wants to let them off because their mother didn't love them. KKing and Omega, I’m not asking you to agree with me, but to listen with an open mind. I’ll do the same for you when you give me something to work with, like Omega posting this video.

The video clip you posted represents the view of those in power in the government of Iran - not the population as a whole.

The Rand Corp surveyed Iranian people by phone. One of the things they learned is, “The survey also suggested that Iranians with higher incomes, higher levels of education, and access to multiple sources of information may be more supportive of Iranian policies that are more favorable to U.S. interests. U.S. policies meant to shape Iranian behavior may be more effective if they focus on this particular sector of the Iranian population.”

World Public Opinion found:

"(1) Iranians want their government to talk with the U.S. about specific issues and approve of their government's making policy concessions on both regional issues and its nuclear program in order to achieve normalized relations with the U.S.

and While Iranians, like many other Muslim populations, have negative opinions of the U.S. government and U.S. foreign policy, they have a mildly positive image of the American people, and believe "common ground" can be found between the two societies. Most Iranians desire closer ties with the U.S., including more trade, investment and tourism."

My point is that taking the actions of a few and applying that to the whole population doesn’t make sense, nor does it allow the US to act in our self interest, as demonstrated in the comments by Rand. Of course, there are common people that agree with the government.

Sadly, the Shah of Iran was replaced by a religious nut case in 1979, which is not what the people wanted. They wanted more freedom. The US played an important role in over throwing the Shah. We were pissed because he supported higher oil prices and the emergence of OPEC in the 70s wreaked havoc on our economy.

Surely, the US politicians didn’t want the Ayatolla to take over, though that is what happened.

All of this to say, things are more complicated than they appear. Sweeping generalizations about other populations doesn’t support the interests of our country or the intentions and beliefs of other populations.

[Omega]

Omega,

Thanks for sharing. Understand that I'm not a terrorist loving liberal who wants to let them off because their mother didn't love them. KKing and Omega, I’m not asking you to agree with me, but to listen with an open mind. I’ll do the same for you when you give me something to work with, like Omega posting this video.

The video clip you posted represents the view of those in power in the government of Iran - not the population as a whole.

The Rand Corp surveyed Iranian people by phone. One of the things they learned is, “The survey also suggested that Iranians with higher incomes, higher levels of education, and access to multiple sources of information may be more supportive of Iranian policies that are more favorable to U.S. interests. U.S. policies meant to shape Iranian behavior may be more effective if they focus on this particular sector of the Iranian population.”

World Public Opinion found:

"(1) Iranians want their government to talk with the U.S. about specific issues and approve of their government's making policy concessions on both regional issues and its nuclear program in order to achieve normalized relations with the U.S.

and While Iranians, like many other Muslim populations, have negative opinions of the U.S. government and U.S. foreign policy, they have a mildly positive image of the American people, and believe "common ground" can be found between the two societies. Most Iranians desire closer ties with the U.S., including more trade, investment and tourism."

My point is that taking the actions of a few and applying that to the whole population doesn’t make sense, nor does it allow the US to act in our self interest, as demonstrated in the comments by Rand. Of course, there are common people that agree with the government.

Sadly, the Shah of Iran was replaced by a religious nut case in 1979, which is not what the people wanted. They wanted more freedom. The US played an important role in over throwing the Shah. We were pissed because he supported higher oil prices and the emergence of OPEC in the 70s wreaked havoc on our economy.

Surely, the US politicians didn’t want the Ayatolla to take over, though that is what happened.

All of this to say, things are more complicated than they appear. Sweeping generalizations about other populations doesn’t support the interests of our country or the intentions and beliefs of other populations.

My thing is this, I am willing to let others believe what they want and generally won't go out of my way to disrespect their beliefs.  I won't serve pork to those that don't eat it, will bow my head when appropriate and observe their cultural beliefs when in their land or home.  But once they start attempting to force me, discussion is ok, to believe like they do or try and get other radicals to do me harm then all bets are off.  I never generalize and entire...anything or anyone due to individualizations; nobody is exactly alike no matter what, even if cut from the same cloth.  But with Islamists being such a great number it is fair to say that many of them have enough control of things to be dangerous to us for many generations to come.  While as was said before it took Christians many years to stop killing in the name of religion, I don't see them coming to terms that easily.  Those that wish for peace are just not exerting enough influence on the rest for this to be over soon, as is the case with some of our trouble makers here in the US; rioting and stealing in the name of justice.  And until they control their own in a positive way there will be no peace.

[Pete123]

Omega,

You and I are now on the same page. I agree with everything you just said.

[btq96r]

Have you seen this: https://youtu.be/90JNEJj4YOg , there are plenty more from other countries but I'll let you get some of these yourself as it makes me feel dirty looking through these.

 

I think its important to look at those with a grain of salt.  A lot of Friday afternoon mosque sermons are for domestic consumption and are full of hyperbole.

 

In any country with domestic issues, like Iran and a good bit of the Middle East, they need to find a boogeyman to focus the public against, and America and Israel fit the mold nicely.  Now, that's not to say that I think the feelings aren't really there, but the powers that be in those countries know there is only so much they can get away with outside their own borders. 

 

Iran, for all their saber rattling in public is actually very pragmatic foreign policy wise.  They know their left and right limits, and focus on what they can do without biting off too much.  They demonize "the great Satan" to help their people forget the squalor they live in.

 

I liken mosque sermons in the middle east to politics in America.  It's like when a Republican who campaigns on conservative principles goes to Washington and votes in line with a big government agenda.  They tell the people what they want to hear, then go off and do whatever the powers that be tell them.

Edited May 19, 2015 by btq96r

[Hershmeister]

Sorry but you are wrong. Islam is steeped in jew hatred, and if the past 40+ years of islamic terrorism has not made it clear, there is a large enough group of muslim countries and leaders who are willing to deliver on their promised threats

Saying that the imams don't really mean it when they say kill the jews is naive when its actually happening!

Iran and iraq fought against each other in the 1980s in what represented a religious war of sunni vs shia and sent hundreds of their boys to the grave.

I hardy would equate american domestic politics with this kind of evil


Otherwise one could argue that the nazis didn't really mean those things they said - it was just for domestic consumption

Oh wait - the world did exactly that

[A.J. Holst]

No, but the Old Testament does, and many Christians claim it is to be taken as literally as the New Testament.

There are dozens of infractions for which the prescription is death in the the Old Testament, and worshiping a different god than Yahweh is one of them.

Christianity has only become the non-bellicose version we see now over the last 500 years, and that's about how much younger Islam is now, so maybe it'll eventually come around too. ;)

- OS

Jesus didn't come to enforce the Old Testament. He taught the spirit of the Law of Moses; if you love the Lord with all your heart and mind you will want to resist breaking the law (sinning) and love you neighbors as yourself...treat others as you want to be treated.

Haven't read the Koran, but I doubt such language exists for Muslims to change and come around.

[Omega]

Jesus didn't come to enforce the Old Testament. He taught the spirit of the Law of Moses; if you love the Lord with all your heart and mind you will want to resist breaking the law (sinning) and love you neighbors as yourself...treat others as you want to be treated.

Haven't read the Koran, but I doubt such language exists for Muslims to change and come around.

Most religious texts include some form of that "Golden Rule", including the Koran.  But some passages get more traction than others with some people, and many hard core extremists know exactly what passages get their followers rile up.

[Hershmeister]

Most religious texts include some form of that "Golden Rule", including the Koran. But some passages get more traction than others with some people, and many hard core extremists know exactly what passages get their followers rile up.

Not true for the koran. It explictly exempts certain groups from the golden rule approach


see: quran 5:32-33


(5:32) Therefore We prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoso slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul slain, nor for corruption done in the land, shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoso gives life to a soul, shall be as if he has given life to mankind altogether. Our Messengers have already come to them with the clear signs; then many of them thereafter commit excesses in the earth. (5:33) This is the recompense of those who fight against God and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement


Jews are routinely listed as "Corruptors" in the koran.

More info:

http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/08/20/salvation-and-koranic-crucifixion-of-corrupters/

[Oh Shoot]

....They demonize "the great Satan" to help their people forget the squalor they live in.

 

That's a key issue in the actual existence of "Islamic extremism" whether from governments, ISIS, whoever. If the average mid eastern Muslim had a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of, or even the hope of getting them, organized Jihad-ism would fade away.  But as it is, the next life, with or even without virgins, is equally if not more attractive than this one.

 

- OS

Edited May 19, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Pete123]

I think its important to look at those with a grain of salt.  A lot of Friday afternoon mosque sermons are for domestic consumption and are full of hyperbole.
 
In any country with domestic issues, like Iran and a good bit of the Middle East, they need to find a boogeyman to focus the public against, and America and Israel fit the mold nicely.  Now, that's not to say that I think the feelings aren't really there, but the powers that be in those countries know there is only so much they can get away with outside their own borders. 
 
Iran, for all their saber rattling in public is actually very pragmatic foreign policy wise.  They know their left and right limits, and focus on what they can do without biting off too much.  They demonize "the great Satan" to help their people forget the squalor they live in.
 
I liken mosque sermons in the middle east to politics in America.  It's like when a Republican who campaigns on conservative principles goes to Washington and votes in line with a big government agenda.  They tell the people what they want to hear, then go off and do whatever the powers that be tell them.

These are good points. Same thing w/ North Korea - many of their threats against us are meant for internal consumption. I also agree with you that politicians, regardless of where they are, say one thing to the populace and something else behind closed doors.

Moving away from the religion topic, my biggest concern is becoming the Chinese. The capitalists make the money, but the commies run the show. Their economy will soon surpass ours and they don't spend 30% more than they take in each year like the US does.

They are already throwing their military weight around in the South China Sea and they are far behind us.

What will it be like when they are consistently outspending us on the military.

[btq96r]

Sorry but you are wrong. Islam is steeped in jew hatred, and if the past 40+ years of islamic terrorism has not made it clear, there is a large enough group of muslim countries and leaders who are willing to deliver on their promised threats

Saying that the imams don't really mean it when they say kill the jews is naive when its actually happening!

 

The Jew hatred is there, but aside from Hezbollah and Hamas- who aren't states- who is in open war against Israel?  The Arab states that tried it in 1948, 1967, and 1973 learned their lessons after the third try.  They go along to get along these days, because it benefits them politically and economically; especially in dealings with the U.S.. 

 

Local Imams are puppets of the governments in most places.  Keeping the small folk in line is one of their jobs.  They will preach death to Israel all day long, but the governments have no desire to make real war against them.  Proxy war maybe, but that's pretty much status quo in that part of the world anyway.

 

 

Iran and iraq fought against each other in the 1980s in what represented a religious war of sunni vs shia and sent hundreds of their boys to the grave.

 

That war was as much about Saddam wanting to expand Iraqi power as it was him being worried about the Shiites he was repressing being influenced by Iran.  He saw Iran after the revolution as a weak target since they had purged a lot of officers, and didn't have U.S. backing anymore.  He bit off more than he could chew.  Then he tried it again against Kuwait in 1990 hoping for a better result and got his ass handed to him there as well.

 

 

Otherwise one could argue that the nazis didn't really mean those things they said - it was just for domestic consumption

Oh wait - the world did exactly that

 

The Nazi's actually made war on multiple fronts.  So no, I wouldn't make that argument. 

 

But hindsight is 50-50.  Should the world have preemptively attacked Germany as the Nazis rose to power?  After he started grabbing territory, sure.  But I think history has shown us how preemptive wars don't always work out for the best.

Edited May 20, 2015 by btq96r

[Hershmeister]

You make it out as if muslims are not independent actors but simply puppets whose strings are played.

While on a state level your remarks are correct, the issue remains an entite religion calls for the death of jews at its core.



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