Has a small issue yesterday in Cookville!

[bersaguy]

I had a very interesting interaction on Saturday. I was coming home from work and a beautiful dog was in the middle of the road. I stopped to check for collar and help her. I was literally a mile from home. A car pulled up an stopped behind me and the man yelled "grab her". Turns out he was her owner. He reaked of booze and he offered her to me. Long story short the offer of the dog turned into him telling me to follow him back to his house to "talk about it".

At that moment I went into defense mode and getting back into my truck and getting home to my big mean monkey. I still feel AWFUL for leaving the dog but I knew I was safer getting the hell out of there. I at least wanted back to my truck to get my knife. Our closest neighbor luckily came up behind him which broke the tension enough for me to leave.

I'm looking forward to being able to carry my 29 on me at all times no matter what soon. He may have been totally harmless but I would have felt totally different had I been able to have it with me. I would have also not had to have the look and talk with Monkey about leaving my vehicle. LOL

I am very glad you are safe and sorry you had to go through that but being a dog lover myself I would have probably done the same thing. Will be glad when you get your HCP so you can feel safer................ :up:

[Luke E.]

The front 2 which seemed to be the older ones where about 15+ feet from me. The others were about 20+ feet. Once I had my hand on my gun with hammer back I could have shot both of them in about 2-3 seconds if they would have moved in my direction and I felt in danger. I and a buddy of mine have practiced such types of scenario's about 100 + times and I have pretty well tweaked it. The first thing I had going for me is my adrenalin and BP was not on the rise and my thought cycle was at 100%. That is one thing that I can thank my Uncle Sam for was that training in self control which I was able to keep all these years. I don't panic and my thought cycle is always working in a calm but alert manner. I'm just very glad it turned out as it did. I would have hated to cause Cookeville so much trouble when Al Sharpton and the hate gang showed up showed up.

We I hope none of us TGO folks ever draw the fire or crazy Al.
I will say, I can run all the way across my house in 2-3 seconds. I'm in no way second guessing your actions because everyone made it home safe and sound and it sound like the only one that had elevated BP was your fur baby so I'd say you acted exactly right for the situation you were in.
I would suggest not mentioning how clear headed you were if you ever have to pull the trigger. An attorney or DA could point out that no one in fear for their life would be clear headed with normal BP. I'm guessing you're more than aware of that.
I'm very glad things worked out so well for you, sir!

[MrsMonkeyMan2500]

I am very glad you are safe and sorry you had to go through that but being a dog lover myself I would have probably done the same thing. Will be glad when you get your HCP so you can feel safer................ :up:

Thanks Bersa :) I carried in my vehicle today. Hog Rally coming too so extra motivation because you never know. She's been riding with me since Saturday after it happened. She will continue to until I get the HCP Class done and hopefully approved. I don't know what the waiting period is after the class but my G29 will be with me in the car until I can legally carry everywhere!

Dang dogs and my heart. They know how to get me. Just wish I would have grabbed her and ran!

[crossfire]

MrsMM2500

 

Hog Rally's are pretty tame, not too many MC types go to them. But your right "you never know". Good luck on your HCP Class.

[bersaguy]

We I hope none of us TGO folks ever draw the fire or crazy Al.
I will say, I can run all the way across my house in 2-3 seconds. I'm in no way second guessing your actions because everyone made it home safe and sound and it sound like the only one that had elevated BP was your fur baby so I'd say you acted exactly right for the situation you were in.
I would suggest not mentioning how clear headed you were if you ever have to pull the trigger. An attorney or DA could point out that no one in fear for their life would be clear headed with normal BP. I'm guessing you're more than aware of that.
I'm very glad things worked out so well for you, sir!

I'm sure my adrenal and BP would have went up had I really saw or felt a real threat but there were only two that were that close and having anything to say and the others were a lot farther away and you could almost tell they were ready to run if things escalated. I am just glad it ended the way it did but it does cause me to be a little more aware of my surroundings better. I was not looking out the door of the market as I walked out and Kasey's barking caused me to look up as I opened the door to the market............ :up: 

[K191145]

With today's atmosphere I wouldn't have called the police, unless they were white. Sorry but I would be paranoid that I would be percieved as the villian and they would be percieved as young innocent good black kids just hanging out at the store. I know most LEO's would know better but I would bet that even they are paranoid now to be percieved as bully cops, picking on young innocent black kids just hanging out at the store. Besides it wasn't that big of a deal, young punks acting tough trying to intimidate someone for the fun of it, white punks do the same but Bersa was right not to take any chances, I wouldn't. You never know who will be the one to actually physically attack since it happens alot more these days and the young black punks feel they have Obama's permission now to act that way now. I would say that a group of punks, black, white, hispanic, asian etc. who probably have something illegal on them are not going to report you if you show them you are not going to be a victim, assuming is smart sometimes, assume that they "intend" to do you physical harm, that's one of the criteria already met for justified self defense and of course they have the ability. Just don't give them the opportunity.

[Omega]

With today's atmosphere I wouldn't have called the police, unless they were white. Sorry but I would be paranoid that I would be percieved as the villian and they would be percieved as young innocent good black kids just hanging out at the store. I know most LEO's would know better but I would bet that even they are paranoid now to be percieved as bully cops, picking on young innocent black kids just hanging out at the store. Besides it wasn't that big of a deal, young punks acting tough trying to intimidate someone for the fun of it, white punks do the same but Bersa was right not to take any chances, I wouldn't. You never know who will be the one to actually physically attack since it happens alot more these days and the young black punks feel they have Obama's permission now to act that way now. I would say that a group of punks, black, white, hispanic, asian etc. who probably have something illegal on them are not going to report you if you show them you are not going to be a victim, assuming is smart sometimes, assume that they "intend" to do you physical harm, that's one of the criteria already met for justified self defense and of course they have the ability. Just don't give them the opportunity.

I refuse to allow today's political climate dictate my actions.  I will call it as I see it no matter where the chips may fall.  If they be black, white, or my fellow hispanics I will report their behinds even if they could be someone's son.

[K191145]

I refuse to allow today's political climate dictate my actions.  I will call it as I see it no matter where the chips may fall.  If they be black, white, or my fellow hispanics I will report their behinds even if they could be someone's son.

 

I'll report it if it is serious enough but you are taking chances that you will be considered the villian in some cases. This was just punks acting badass, they didn't break any laws it doesn't sound like but they gave Bersa the impression that they were about to, that's plenty enough reason for me to take a defensive posture. I've seen alot of white punk kids in my area and I would probably report them quicker because I know I wouldn't be percieved as some old white redneck racist if I did. Anyway, it would be just to advise a local LEO that there's some punks harassing people, the most they could do is keep an eye on them.

[MrsMonkeyMan2500]

MrsMM2500

Hog Rally's are pretty tame, not too many MC types go to them. But your right "you never know". Good luck on your HCP Class.

Thanks! As for the HR, it's actually next week and I was told be a long time resident these will be the "old fart, rich bikers on new Harley's". So no Waco Twin Peaks 2.0! So I'm cool! :-)

[crossfire]

Thanks! As for the HR, it's actually next week and I was told be a long time resident these will be the "old fart, rich bikers on new Harley's". So no Waco Twin Peaks 2.0! So I'm cool! :-)

I'm a lifetime member of Hog, and never joined a chapter, I went to a few HR and your right, no Twin Peaks. Still you have the "Wantabes" that think there something their not. Now "Sturgis" on the other hand, is a different ball game.  Been there , done that!

[bersaguy]

After going back and reading my original post again and remembered back their was on one talker and he only said one sentence but I don't think he was talking for the group because the rest of them had already began to move back away from my jeep.  After going back and searching my memory I still think only two of them may have been over 12 but not over 14. I think everything I did to down play the situation was in order and I still don't think it was something that require police action...............jmho

[Omega]

After going back and reading my original post again and remembered back their was on one talker and he only said one sentence but I don't think he was talking for the group because the rest of them had already began to move back away from my jeep.  After going back and searching my memory I still think only two of them may have been over 12 but not over 14. I think everything I did to down play the situation was in order and I still don't think it was something that require police action...............jmho

Bersa, you were there and have all the facts, feelings, and observations so the rest of us are just armchair quarterbacks.  If you are good with it then great, it obviously didn't go anywhere and all is well so don't feel like I or we are saying you did anything wrong in this particular situation.  No need to feel like you should defend your actions in anyway, with me at least.  I think many of us are just looking at it from different standpoints and have inserted our own past experiences into it which would of possibly made this same situation much different.  As with accidents, everything leading up to an incident is like a link in a chain and it just takes one link to make it go sideways in a hurry.

[JAB]

Personally, as his gun never left the holster, I would not have called the cops in the same situation.  First, my past experience has been, "What good would it do?"  When I lived at my grandmother's house on East Fifth, on one occasion someone broke into her car.  On another occasion, someone vandalized her car (broke a tail light, etc.)  Further, one Thanksgiving (I wasn't there that day) while her brother and his wife were eating Thanksgiving dinner with my grandmother someone stole their car from her back yard, took it on a joy ride and left it pretty much destroyed a mile or two away.  A year or two before I moved in there to attend college (at UTK) a young, black man knocked her down and stole her purse right in her own back yard after she returned from church one Sunday.  On every one of those occasions the police were called and a report filed.  On no occasion were there any results or any suspects caught after filing the report.  For such things I would still file a report but for a little run in in a gas station parking lot where no one was hurt, the threat backed down peaceably and my gun never left the holster?  Not worth the time or the hassle.  Basically, I prefer to keep police contact to the minimum possible and - to me - this incident simply would not be worth the time and aggravation it would require to call it in and file a report that would likely yield zero results, anyway.

Edited May 19, 2015 by JAB

[bersaguy]

Bersa, you were there and have all the facts, feelings, and observations so the rest of us are just armchair quarterbacks.  If you are good with it then great, it obviously didn't go anywhere and all is well so don't feel like I or we are saying you did anything wrong in this particular situation.  No need to feel like you should defend your actions in anyway, with me at least.  I think many of us are just looking at it from different standpoints and have inserted our own past experiences into it which would of possibly made this same situation much different.  As with accidents, everything leading up to an incident is like a link in a chain and it just takes one link to make it go sideways in a hurry.

 

Thanks Omega and I did ask for opinions but I didn't expect such a discussion on what I would call a 1/2 in the rate of 1-10 on a danger scale. Maybe if anything ever happens again I might word my post differently............... :up:

[Monkeyman2500]

Thanks Omega and I did ask for opinions but I didn't expect such a discussion on what I would call a 1/2 in the rate of 1-10 on a danger scale. Maybe if anything ever happens again I might word my post differently............... :up:

Don't think you messed up Bersa. It's these types of situations that we all have to think about. These situations are not common in everyday life and it just gives everyone a chance to discuss it.

[DaveTN]

Personally, as his gun never left the holster, I would not have called the cops in the same situation.  First, my past experience has been, "What good would it do?"  When I lived at my grandmother's house on East Fifth, on one occasion someone broke into her car.  On another occasion, someone vandalized her car (broke a tail light, etc.)  Further, one Thanksgiving (I wasn't there that day) while her brother and his wife were eating Thanksgiving dinner with my grandmother someone stole their car from her back yard, took it on a joy ride and left it pretty much destroyed a mile or two away.  A year or two before I moved in there to attend college (at UTK) a young, black man knocked her down and stole her purse right in her own back yard after she returned from church one Sunday.  On every one of those occasions the police were called and a report filed.  On no occasion were there any results or any suspects caught after filing the report.  For such things I would still file a report but for a little run in in a gas station parking lot where no one was hurt, the threat backed down peaceably and my gun never left the holster?  Not worth the time or the hassle.  Basically, I prefer to keep police contact to the minimum possible and - to me - this incident simply would not be worth the time and aggravation it would require to call it in and file a report that would likely yield zero results, anyway.

Doesn’t matter if his gun left the holster or not, and it’s not about filing a Police Report or trying to have someone arrested. The advice given by most here is so others can maybe stay out of jail or court.

If I had been dispatched to one of those kids homes and their parents were going nuts because someone threatened their kid with a gun (That’s what he said he did), and I was only able to get one side of the story; I would have put out a pick-up on him for aggravated assault. Once I went home and he was stopped; he would have been arrested and jailed. If he wasn’t stopped in the area, a felony warrant would have been issued and his hometown PD could pick him up.

I had discretion in misdemeanors; I didn’t on felonies. However if I believed he was justified; no crime was committed and everyone goes about their business. But that can only happen with both sides present.

No, they wouldn’t have done anything to the kids if he had called; they hadn’t done anything wrong. But nothing would have happened to him either. In this specific incident the point is moot because the cops have not contacted him. But maybe it will help others. As a former cop I can tell you the first to call is the complainant the second to call is the suspect. But if both parties can be dealt with at the same time; it may not need to go any farther.

Hope this helps. Just arm chair quarterbacking as that’s what we do here. I assume that’s what he wanted or he wouldn’t have posted the story.

[dlmeadows]

I live less than a mile from where you're incident took place. I can honestly say that's very surprising to see 5 black guys together acting that way. I would be less surprised if you had said 5 Hispanics or Indians.

[teecro]

Personally, as his gun never left the holster, I would not have called the cops in the same situation.  First, my past experience has been, "What good would it do?"  .

 

Does not matter that the gun never left the holster it was shown and known.... Those kids could have one upped BG by simply calling in to the police that some dude pulled a gun on them for checking in on his overheated dog.... As unlikely as it sounds I know of a guy (good samaritan) who has ended up in jail for little more than this..... 

[bersaguy]

Does not matter that the gun never left the holster it was shown and known.... Those kids could have one upped BG by simply calling in to the police that some dude pulled a gun on them for checking in on his overheated dog.... As unlikely as it sounds I know of a guy (good samaritan) who has ended up in jail for little more than this..... 

Ok teecro, would it have been any different had I be on open carry that day? My gun would have been shown and known then also! I could have proved the kids as liars if they called to report an over heated dog in a vehicle. Most folks keep forgetting I did have a friend with me in the Jeep with Kasey watching everything going on and listening to everything said. I also had ice water in her water bowl and dog biscuits for her to snack on. I could have turned the tide on them by saying the reason she was overheated was because they were aggravating her. There are many if's and could haves and many different scenarios that could have been but none were. In my heart I did what I thought was the right thing and it turned out to be the right thing and everyone lived to go home.....................jmho

[teecro]

Ok teecro, would it have been any different had I be on open carry that day? My gun would have been shown and known then also! I could have proved the kids as liars if they called to report an over heated dog in a vehicle. Most folks keep forgetting I did have a friend with me in the Jeep with Kasey watching everything going on and listening to everything said. I also had ice water in her water bowl and dog biscuits for her to snack on. I could have turned the tide on them by saying the reason she was overheated was because they were aggravating her. There are many if's and could haves and many different scenarios that could have been but none were. In my heart I did what I thought was the right thing and it turned out to be the right thing and everyone lived to go home.....................jmho

 

No BG I'm not forgetting anything here..... People (punks) lie all the time.... If they decided to "punk" you by calling in a false report it is you who would have been unconvinced by having the police come find you.... Leaving you with perhaps a lot of explaining to do. Where on the side of the road, at home, at the station? As I commented I know of a good samaritan who is doing jail time as the person he stopped to help on the side of the road was a nut and called in a false brandishing report and when the cops found him he was in his home having a few drinks and things just went south from there.... He who calls LEO first wins the cu-pie doll... 

[bersaguy]

No BG I'm not forgetting anything here..... People (punks) lie all the time.... If they decided to "punk" you by calling in a false report it is you who would have been unconvinced by having the police come find you.... Leaving you with perhaps a lot of explaining to do. Where on the side of the road, at home, at the station? As I commented I know of a good samaritan who is doing jail time as the person he stopped to help on the side of the road was a nut and called in a false brandishing report and when the cops found him he was in his home having a few drinks and things just went south from there.... He who calls LEO first wins the cu-pie doll... 

Maybe so but in all honesty I don't believe these kids really wanted to police involved or attracted to them at all. You could tell on the faces of most of them that they didn't even want to be there. You could tell they wanted to run by the expressions on most of them faces. I'm sorry about your friends trouble. It sounds like the police didn't handle it correctly of something happened when the officers went to his home to confront him which resulted in his arrest................. :shrug: :shrug:

[Dustbuster]

_{good job, i would have called it in, you never know, one of the little turds could have been involved in something worse thats unsolved.the cops can snatch em and process them, getting their fingerprints and more.}

[teecro]

Yep only your eyes and gut where there, we are only voicing opinion of what could have happened via worst case.....