Taxes on guns and ammo

[Ray Z]

I have third hand information that not only does ATF tax all guns and related items, but the state department does too. Does anyone have any info that is more provable? What does this add to the cost of a purchase? This sounds like more back door gun control to me. It sounds to me like you have the right to keep and bare arms. You just can't afford to buy guns and ammo to use in them. Am I right?

[Garufa]

Everything is taxed.  Guns & Ammo are no different.  The taxes are imposed on manufacturers, producers and importers who, of course, pass that cost on to the consumer.  The consumer just doesn't know it.

 

http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/background.shtml

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=d0544e3b23e2ddd4c086f8046f804935&mc=true&node=se27.2.53_161&rgn=div8

Edited May 13, 2015 by Garufa

[btq96r]

I have third hand information that not only does ATF tax all guns and related items, but the state department does too.

 

Well, if a 3rd hand source said so...

 

Taxes, tariffs, and fees, fall under the category of "nothing new under the sun"  And there isn't much of it related to firearms that isn't prevalent in some shape or form in other industries operating costs.

 

 

Am I right?

 

No.

[DaveTN]

This sounds like more back door gun control to me.

There is plenty of front door, in your face gun control going on. You don’t have to look for it where it doesn’t exist. :)

It sounds to me like you have the right to keep and bare arms. You just can't afford to buy guns and ammo to use in them.

Plenty of folks can’t afford to buy their gun privileges from the state, but I don’t see them getting a break.

[Ray Z]

Wow guys, it sounds like you're hot on me. Sorry I said something bad about gun control. I too have the right to keep and bare arms. But I'm not allowed to have an AK or SKS that's not made in this country. I have the right to have one for like $500. Am I the only one that remembers $70 unfired rifles and $100 cases of ammo that were imported? Or the 8" deep layer of empty cases at the rifle range? Oh gee willikers batman what happened to them isn't gun control.

 

Oh, BTW I was asking for clarification because all I had was third hand information.

 

Am I getting right yet?

[Oh Shoot]

Wow guys, it sounds like you're hot on me. Sorry I said something bad about gun control. I too have the right to keep and bare arms. But I'm not allowed to have an AK or SKS that's not made in this country. I have the right to have one for like $500. Am I the only one that remembers $70 unfired rifles and $100 cases of ammo that were imported? Or the 8" deep layer of empty cases at the rifle range? Oh gee willikers batman what happened to them isn't gun control.

 

Oh, BTW I was asking for clarification because all I had was third hand information.

 

Am I getting right yet?

 

What are you asking?

 

There are import taxes on most everything imported into the US, so I suppose there are on firearms also. Yes, there are new AKs you can have that are not made in the US, but no new ones from China or Russia currently. And yes, they cost around $500 and up, but that's just what the traffic will bear, not the gummit's call. Domestic ones are generally higher, and there are also excise taxes for any US produced firearm. We pay a lot of excise taxes, like on gasoline, regardless of where the crude is from that made it.

 

And you can bare your arms any time you want, in every state, and even in public. :)

 

- OS

Edited May 14, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Jonnin]

if they put in a poll tax, or a tax on the right to speak in public, or somehow attached fees to the other items in the bill of rights, there would be an UPROAR.  

But somehow it is OK to tax** guns a dozen times over ...

-there is sales tax on the gun and ammo

- there is a tax for importation if imported

- there is a tax to do a background check to buy it

- there is a tax to get a slip of paper to carry it, in most states

- there is a tax to complete the requirements for the slip of paper as well (classes and paperwork etc) in most states

- there are fees and taxes associated with the industry due to explosives and handling of explosives including extra shipping fees/taxes

 

and that is just to name a few of the more overt forms of taxation on the right to bear arms.   I actually agree with the OP that it is a form of gun control because NONE of the other rights CAN BE taxed --- it has long been held unconstitutional to tax them.   

 

** related "fees" are also taxes.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Jonnin

[DaveTN]

Wow guys, it sounds like you're hot on me. Sorry I said something bad about gun control. I too have the right to keep and bare arms.

 
 

if they put in a poll tax, or a tax on the right to speak in public, or somehow attached fees to the other items in the bill of rights, there would be an UPROAR.

Taxes were paid on the computer you used to take a poll, or the paper it was written on, the pens and pencils used to write with, the internet access, the books you buy. If you speak publically and use any equipment; you will probably pay tax on it.

Other than the .010 a box tax on ammo in this state that goes to the TWRA I don’t see any more tax on guns than anything else. I don’t hunt or go traipsing around in the woods; but I’m okay with that tax. Maybe I should feel that the Hunters and Tree huggers should pay their own way; but I don’t.

I’m not getting hot on you. I just hate to hear people claim rights they do not have. Carrying firearms in this state is illegal. The state does not recognize the 2nd amendment as an individual right and they have claimed States Rights in doing so. You have the right to “keep” arms; you do not have the right to “bear” arms in this state. I support States Rights, but don’t support gun control. So until the state of Tennessee decides to recognize the 2nd amendment as a right for all; you do not have that right.

We pay around .40 a gallon tax on gas. That is robbery and impacts the costs of all things. But I doubt much will be done to reduce that.

[Jonnin]

 
 
Taxes were paid on the computer you used to take a poll, or the paper it was written on, the pens and pencils used to write with, the internet access, the books you buy. If you speak publically and use any equipment; you will probably pay tax on it.

Other than the .010 a box tax on ammo in this state that goes to the TWRA I don’t see any more tax on guns than anything else. I don’t hunt or go traipsing around in the woods; but I’m okay with that tax. Maybe I should feel that the Hunters and Tree huggers should pay their own way; but I don’t.

I’m not getting hot on you. I just hate to hear people claim rights they do not have. Carrying firearms in this state is illegal. The state does not recognize the 2nd amendment as an individual right and they have claimed States Rights in doing so. You have the right to “keep” arms; you do not have the right to “bear” arms in this state. I support States Rights, but don’t support gun control. So until the state of Tennessee decides to recognize the 2nd amendment as a right for all; you do not have that right.

We pay around .40 a gallon tax on gas. That is robbery and impacts the costs of all things. But I doubt much will be done to reduce that.

 

Oh, I mostly agree. 

But at the core of it, look at voter ID law arguments.   Say they did that like gun carry permits and it cost each voter about $100 - 200 or so to take a class on "civics" and get an ID card before being allowed to vote.   Tell me how well THAT would go over.   I see the gun permits and background taxes and required ownership classes and (not in tn) registration and other fees as pure taxes designed to drive people away from exercising their right.  Same as the real reason behind poll taxes was to eliminate certain voters from bothering with it.

 

gas taxes are aside.  Robbery, yes.  But I don't see my right to drive a car enumerated anywhere, its a privilege for those who can afford it, and always has been.   Guns, voting, speaking ... are not the same.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Jonnin

[ttocswob]

I do have the right to keep and bear arms.

 

This is a God given right which the state cannot take away -but can only violate.

[K191145]

What are you asking?

 

There are import taxes on most everything imported into the US, so I suppose there are on firearms also. Yes, there are new AKs you can have that are not made in the US, but no new ones from China or Russia currently. And yes, they cost around $500 and up, but that's just what the traffic will bear, not the gummit's call. Domestic ones are generally higher, and there are also excise taxes for any US produced firearm. We pay a lot of excise taxes, like on gasoline, regardless of where the crude is from that made it.

 

And you can bare your arms any time you want, in every state, and even in public. :)

 

- OS

 

I think part of the question, and one I would like to know is, "IF" the ATF and State Department are the ones deciding the taxes on guns and ammo then why should those two anti-gun agencys be the ones making those decisions? If there's not a federal sales tax on any other product like hammers and drills, then there shouldn't be any federal sales tax on guns and ammo.

[Oh Shoot]

I think part of the question, and one I would like to know is, "IF" the ATF and State Department are the ones deciding the taxes on guns and ammo then why should those two anti-gun agencys be the ones making those decisions? If there's not a federal sales tax on any other product like hammers and drills, then there shouldn't be any federal sales tax on guns and ammo.

 

Congress enacts the rate schedules for all federal taxes. Congress also of course enacts the existence of such taxes in the first place.

 

- OS

Edited May 14, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Smith]

Keep in mind that some of what you are getting at IS being addressed for instate manufacturing. Colorado, I believe, was one of the first to say that no ATF tax stamp required for suppressors, etc. as long as they are made in state and reside in state. Taxes can only be enforced due to interstate commerce.  Theoretically of course. 

[Oh Shoot]

Keep in mind that some of what you are getting at IS being addressed for instate manufacturing. Colorado, I believe, was one of the first to say that no ATF tax stamp required for suppressors, etc. as long as they are made in state and reside in state....

 

Yeah, TN law claims that also.

 

- OS

[USMC8672]

Actually there is a excise tax on every gun that is sold. The only way to get around it is to have the police force that you work for to either purchase it or give you a letter of authorization that the firearm is for "duty" purposes. You can purchase with your own money but the documentation has to come from your dept.
Jim

[Oh Shoot]

Actually there is a excise tax on every gun that is sold. The only way to get around it is to have the police force that you work for to either purchase it or give you a letter of authorization that the firearm is for "duty" purposes. You can purchase with your own money but the documentation has to come from your dept.
Jim

 

Firearm excise tax is paid by the manufacturer on every gun when sold to a distributor or FFL, so don't see how this gets "waived" on down the line. Are you sure you aren't talking about special LEO pricing from various makers?

 

- OS

[USMC8672]

Your special LEO pricing is the cost of the firearm without the excise tax added to the price.

[Oh Shoot]

Your special LEO pricing is the cost of the firearm without the excise tax added to the price.

 

Okay, you seem to know, so I'll take that as a given, thnx.

 

However, must be only part of the story, as federal excise firearm tax on handguns is 10% and Glock for example Blue Label pricing seems more like at least 20% less than average retail.

 

- OS

[Ugly]

Gotta say, the blue label program is quite awesome!

[Ray Z]

I do have the right to keep and bear arms.

 

This is a God given right which the state cannot take away -but can only violate.

Yes, we have the God given right to have a gun. But if that gun ends up costing you a thousand dollars instead of four hundred can you still buy it? How about $2 a round for ammo? Is that front door or back. I remember in the late 60's seeing folks walking out of the gun show with SKSs and AKs that they bought for less than $70. And cases of ammo for less than a hundred bucks. They came from warehouses In Russia and the like. It is now FORBIDDEN to import this stuff. This was done long before the troubles we are having with Russia now. Front door or back. ATF had forbidden many guns to be imported because they didn't fit " our " standards. Front door or back. Senator Dodd was hot on the Glock because you couldn't see it in the Xray machine at the airport. Even after he was shown pictures of one in a suitcase. Lies like that kept him in office for a long time. ATF erases all information that they receive from a 4473 form after 3 days, right? Everybody that believes that can have some of the swamp land that is for sale in Arizona. And as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on the so called ammo shortages.

 

OK dudes, flame on. Tell me how FOS I am. Or how, with today's highly advanced production methods, it cost so much more to produce a firearm's product.

[tnhawk]

Yes, we have the God given right to have a gun. But if that gun ends up costing you a thousand dollars instead of four hundred can you still buy it? How about $2 a round for ammo? Is that front door or back. I remember in the late 60's seeing folks walking out of the gun show with SKSs and AKs that they bought for less than $70. And cases of ammo for less than a hundred bucks........OK dudes, flame on. Tell me how FOS I am. Or how, with today's highly advanced production methods, it cost so much more to produce a firearm's product.

In the past, a Colt 1911 was $230  and a new corvette was $6000.  Hopefully you're worth more wages today than in the good old days as well.

[Ray Z]

Not a good example. Uncle Obama controls my wages

[Jonnin]

comparing prices on guns against the prices from before I was born ...  and I am in my 40s .... is not making your point very well.   Inflation happens... in 1960 a gallon of gas was what, 25 cents?  My dad's car had a 7 liter engine and burned more gas than a monster truck. 

 

I agree with you mostly, but inflation affects most everything from food to homes to guns to gas and clothing and on and on....  the prices for a gun are quite reasonable, actually.  You can *easily* get a self defense pistol for under 300 bucks, and a rifle for 200.   Yea, they will be used, but they will work.

[Ugly]

You are spot on!

[Clod Stomper]

Yes, we have the God given right to have a gun. But if that gun ends up costing you a thousand dollars instead of four hundred can you still buy it? How about $2 a round for ammo? Is that front door or back. I remember in the late 60's seeing folks walking out of the gun show with SKSs and AKs that they bought for less than $70. And cases of ammo for less than a hundred bucks.

Late '80s more likely, but anyway...

This kind of sounds like the people who say health care is a right. So if it's a right then it should be FREE! Right?

I do have the right to keep and bear arms, but that doesn't mean I have a right to obtain them at someone else's expense. Same with health care I (should) have the right to see any doctor I want, whenever I want without interference from the gubmint. But I have to pay market price for it.

I agree to an extent the the gov makes firearms more expensive because of regulation, taxes, etc. But they do that with everything. Yes, the feds have a hard-on about making weapons hard for the common man to acquire, but I can still get a pretty good facsimile of our troops' battle weapon for under $500, which, thanks to inflation, isn't really all that much.

Ammo has gone up and down in price for the last few years thanks to panic buying, but its still affordable in bulk. At the moment anyway.