Tennessee Code

[JLMullins]

Can some one tell me the TC that allows for open carry if you have a HCP?  Plus can you cary long guns, shotguns, and pistols loaded in you car or truck with or without a HCP?  If so what are the code that allow for these? 

 

 

Thanks,

Jimmy

 

[Hozzie]

Lots of new guys asking a lot of very specific questions today. Makes one go hmmm.

There are many threads discussing the codes. May want to start with a search. Edited May 12, 2015 by Hozzie

[monkeylizard]

Yep, but I'll bite.

 

TCA can be found here. It's pretty well updated, but sometimes a brand new law or change to an existing law can take a few weeks to be published there:

https://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

 

Weapons laws are generally under 39-17-13, but because an HCP is a defense to a violation of a law, you have to "stack" them to see how they all work together.

39-17-1307 is where it's against the law to carry a firearm.

39-17-1308 is the list of defenses to 1307 (essentially people or situations to whom 1307 doesn't apply). It lists persons permitted under 39-17-1351 as in its special group of people.

39-17-1351 is the HCP portion which describes who can get one and how to do it.

 

There's more to it as you can see by looking at just how many statutes are under the 39-17-13 section, but it's late and I'm tired. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to fill in the gaps and expound on that.

[dawgdoc]

Laws don't allow things, they make them illegal.  A simple way to put it is that everything is legal until a law makes it illegal (prohibited).  Therefore you won't find a phrase that open carry is "allowed."  You also won't find a phrase that open carry of a handgun with a valid permit is prohibited, either.  Therefore it is legal.

 

That is my simple view of the matter.

Edited May 12, 2015 by dawgdoc

[Oh Shoot]

...

 

TCA can be found here. It's pretty well updated, but sometimes a brand new law or change to an existing law can take a few weeks to be published there:

https://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

 

Well, actually that won't be updated till probably Sept at the earliest and November at the latest, varies year to year.

 

- OS

Edited May 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

Laws don't allow things, they make them illegal.  A simple way to put it is that everything is legal until a law makes it illegal (prohibited).  Therefore you won't find a phrase that open carry is "allowed."

 

I'm afraid you have that backwards when it comes to firearm laws here.

 

TN starts out with the premise in 39-17-1307 that it's illegal to possess a loaded firearm, period. Then adds a litany of defenses, affirmative defenses, and exceptions which allow one to deviate from that.

 

Most states do indeed start with the "all is legal" except for this and that and the other thing, and TN does also with many areas of the code, but not loaded firearms. That's one of the reasons we've had such a problem prying firearm freedoms back I do believe, because of that philosophical mindset that's been there since the late 1800's, that all was because of Jim Crow legislation to begin with, and got into our very state Constitution.

 

Note that having an HCP is still technically only a "defense" to 1307, not even an "exception". Hell, even the long time coming possession in vehicles is now stronger, as it is an "exception".

 

- OS

Edited May 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[JLMullins]

^{I just want to know it it says somewhere that you can carry open with hcp.  I have read all those TCAs and it says nothing about carry a hand gun openly.  The HCP is not even a concealed carry permit, it just says you can carry and not how as I read it.  I have done some search on these threads and I could not find anything that answered my question.}

^JLM

[DaveTN]

I just want to know it it says somewhere that you can carry open with hcp.  I have read all those TCAs and it says nothing about carry a hand gun openly.  The HCP is not even a concealed carry permit, it just says you can carry and not how as I read it.  I have done some search on these threads and I could not find anything that answered my question.

JLM

As has been stated, Tennessee law doesn’t address “open” or “concealed” carry because it does not differentiate between the two.

Open carry is perfectly legal anywhere you can legally carry. Does that mean you won’t be stopped, have people call the Police, or be asked to leave a business? No. Carrying a gun in this state is a privilege you buy from the state; not a recognized right from the Constitution.

If you don’t feel comfortable with what you are reading here; stop by your local PD or Sheriff Department and have a talk with a Command Officer. I’m sure they will be willing to fill you in.

[btq96r]

^{I just want to know it it says somewhere that you can carry open with hcp.  I have read all those TCAs and it says nothing about carry a hand gun openly.  The HCP is not even a concealed carry permit, it just says you can carry and not how as I read it.  I have done some search on these threads and I could not find anything that answered my question.}

^JLM

 

The proof that a permit holder can open carry if they so desire is an AG opinion from 10 years ago that addressed the question.  If someone has something that contradicts it, I'm sure they will be along in short order.

 

Not sure exactly about carrying long guns or shotguns loaded in a car, but the law should be pretty clear on that if you read/Google/hit the search bar here hard enough.

[dawgdoc]

The closest phrase that I can find is in 39-13-1351, which states, "a permit...shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses."

So the code prohibits any carry with intent to go armed (and doesn't distinguish between OC or CC), and the permit gives you the defense against that law (and dosn't distinguish between OC and CC).

[peejman]

Right... Open carry is legal because the HCP exception doesn't specifically require concealment.  Hence TN has a HCP (Handgun Carry Permit) instead of a CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) license like other states that do require concealment.

[JLMullins]

Thank you all so much, I guess I should have explained myself better.

 

Thanks,

JLM

[monkeylizard]

Open carry is perfectly legal anywhere you can legally carry. Does that mean you won’t be stopped, have people call the Police, or be asked to leave a business? No. Carrying a gun in this state is a privilege you buy from the state; not a recognized right from the Constitution.

 

Yep. Always remember that 39-17-1307 says it's a crime to carry a firearm. 1308 provides a defense to prosecution for certain people (HCP holders included) but that doesn't mean you're not techincally breaking a law. If your firearm is spotted, an officer can absolutely stop you for violating 1307. When you produce your HCP for the officer, 1308 applies and you'll be released.

 

As far as the car thing goes, you'll find that in 39-17-1307 section ( e). That's where it basically extends "Castle Doctrine" to a vehicle. No permit required. However, posted parking lots would still be off-limits to permit holders, except that 39-17-1313 specifically grants permit holders access to posted parking lots.

[LagerHead]

I'm afraid you have that backwards when it comes to firearm laws here.
 
TN starts out with the premise in 39-17-1307 that it's illegal to possess a loaded firearm, period. Then adds a litany of defenses, affirmative defenses, and exceptions which allow one to deviate from that.
 
Most states do indeed start with the "all is legal" except for this and that and the other thing, and TN does also with many areas of the code, but not loaded firearms. That's one of the reasons we've had such a problem prying firearm freedoms back I do believe, because of that philosophical mindset that's been there since the late 1800's, that all was because of Jim Crow legislation to begin with, and got into our very state Constitution.
 
Note that having an HCP is still technically only a "defense" to 1307, not even an "exception". Hell, even the long time coming possession in vehicles is now stronger, as it is an "exception".
 
- OS

His point was correct, though. The law is what makes it illegal. Says so right there in the print. If there wasn't a law making it illegal, it would be legal. In other words, if there was no 39-17-1307, what would make it illegal? Nothing.

[TNWNGR]

FWIW from a historical and training stand point the TN HCP was initially a boondoggle with a lot of hurry up training for law enforcement after the fact rather then on the front side. Some LEA did a better job of getting the necessary information to line officers than others, some LEA took longer. A lot of the fear and suspicion generated at that time was fanned up by the media but after a bit of tempered tolerance and learning thing's normalized.

 

Now we're far more excited or as some would say exercised by folks rather publically "demonstrating" rather then exercising their rights to Open Carry. Explaining the tactical absurdity of such activity to someone who demonstrates a distinct lack of awareness of situational risk only promotes further conflict. In reality a few public examples of such "hey notice me" folks getting robbed or killed and their handguns used by the assailant will only further harm handgun carry acceptance.

[monkeylizard]

His point was correct, though. The law is what makes it illegal. Says so right there in the print. If there wasn't a law making it illegal, it would be legal. In other words, if there was no 39-17-1307, what would make it illegal? Nothing.

 

They're both right. Without 1307 saying it's ilegal, then it's OK, which makes dawgdoc right. But because 1307 exists, then you have a myriad of exceptions and defenses, OhShoot is right.

 

In Tennessee with regard to firearms laws, the philosophical approach expressed by dawgdoc is not the safest way to go about things. You don't go looking for firearms laws in TN saying you can't do something and if it doesn't exist then you can. 1307 more or less slams that door and means you have to go looking for things which the law says you  can do.

Edited May 12, 2015 by monkeylizard