Despite new law, guns still banned at Memphis in May

[The Legion]

http://wreg.com/2015/05/08/despite-new-law-guns-still-banned-at-memphis-in-may/

 

 

MEMPHIS, Tenn.– Questions began swirling when Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam signed the controversial ‘Guns in Parks’ bill into law a few weeks ago.

One of the biggest questions;  how would this apply to busy parks in our area and Memphis in May?

Jim Holt, President and CEO of Memphis in May, said guns were still not allowed at Memphis in May even though it’s at Tom Lee Park.

He released this statement:

“Memphis in May International Festival leases Tom Lee Park from the Riverfront Development Corporation for publicly ticketed events. As a producer of events, we have the right to stipulate rules and guidelines for patrons entering the leased park space to attend our events. We prohibit any type of weapon, including pocketknives and we have other restrictions (food and beverages, chairs, umbrella’s, cameras, selfie sticks, etc.) for patrons that attend our events.”

Memphian Mandy Nix said she could see why someone would carry a gun but said Memphis in May wasn’t the place for it.

“You know you feel more protected when you do, but I can see why certain people wouldn’t want them to be down there,” she explained.

“I agree with it. I mean anybody can hurt anyone at anytime. Drinkin,” said Jeremy Vela.

Vela might be against guns at the festival, but other spots he said he’s okay with them.

“Rest of the parks that’s fine, you got these open parks. Anything can happen,” he explained.

Memphis in May seemed to have found a way to work with the law but what about other places?

Mayor A C Wharton has been critical since the beginning.

“Philosophically it’s easy to pass a law like that but how do you operationalize it?” he asked the day the bill was signed.

Many questions remain how the law will be monitored around schools and other functions with children.

[RED333]

Heard a lot of this on the radio today, seems Nashville is weighting in on this as well, seems the new

music venue down town is gona try to block guns as well. My bet it all ends up in court in the next few months.

[MphsTiger1981]

My question is how can this company claim to lease a park and not be subject to the law? I'm not a lawyer but it seems if the owners of the park, the city of Memphis are not able to ban guns in the park, how can they give a contract to someone else and make it legal? How does a company get the ability to take away individual rights of citizens given to them by the state on city property? I think this is a thin ice legal position that they will lose if it ever goes to court. Someone should file a civil suit in Circuit Court for damages against Memphis in May and the City of Memphis for entering into an illegal contract that bars guns to be carried into the parks. If nothing else, most of the judges would likely grant an injunction against Memphis in May until the matter could be resolved.

[300winmag]

You can probably be asked to leave, but wouldn't have to worry about criminal charges since you have a handgun carry permit.  It is no different than carrying at a business that has a no gun policy but you are legal carrying.  That business can still ask you to leave.  A handgun carry permit protects you from criminal charges, but not no gun policies.  Even off duty police can be asked to leave a business if they are carrying.

 

Personally, I would conceal my handgun and carry at those places because Tom Lee Park is a Memphis park and is legal to carry in now.  I guess you could open carry to prove a point, but I wouldn't do that now until all the bed wetters settle down.  Give it some time and people won't even think about it.  These people are making a big deal out of nothing.  The Memphis mayor thinks there is some big deal to operationalize, but there is nothing to worry about. Carrying a gun at a park or event is no different than carrying at a department store or the gas station.  The gun is safe when holstered and 99% of people conceal carry in this state so no one even knows about it.

Edited May 9, 2015 by 300winmag

[Mike.357]

so before reading any of the thread other than the OP,  how long has this party been going on, and have there been reported violent crimes there?

 

 

in reference to guns being on premise

 

 

but I can see why certain people wouldn’t want them to be down there,” she explained.

 

 

Who are these certain people she is talking about?

Edited May 9, 2015 by Mike.357

[dawgdoc]

Georgia has much more specific laws regarding this very issue, and we still have festivals and other events that think they can ban guns when they rent a public park.  The law is pretty clear, but apparently at least one judge cannot understand it, because he ruled in favor of an airshow that banned guns where they had no authority to do so.

 

The basic question in all of these cases (private or paid event at a public park) is whether government can transfer a power that it does not itself possess?  If the KKK leased a park, could they make it "whites only" for the duration of their rally?  Could any event limit attendance to women only, or beautiful people only?  Just because a group rents public property, does not mean it becomes their own little state; they must still abide by the actual laws that govern it.

 

In Georgia, the law seems pretty clear, but just in case, more specific language was added to a bill sitting on the governor's desk right that makes even more clear.

 

I agree with the above sentiment that only successful lawsuits will force these events to follow the law.  Maybe when the first one or two gets burned, the rest will follow suit.  I always tell anyone who will listen that if we, the people, give anyone (government, organizations, neighborhood associations, etc.) the power to ban anything, they will almost inevitably do so.

Edited May 9, 2015 by dawgdoc

[A.J. Holst]

Since they choose to erroneously interpret the law, simple erroneously interpret their interpretation and legally carry your firearm.. While it is my right to OC, I choose to stay under the radar and CC with cover garments and/or pockets...

[dcloudy777]

Who in God's name would get within 10 miles of Shelby County and NOT carry a gun?  

[Worriedman]

Who in God's name would get within 10 miles of Shelby County and NOT carry a gun?  

I remember back when I was testifying at the Senate Judiciary hearing on Employee Safe Commute Republican caused abortion in 2010, then Democrat Memphis Senator Ophillia Ford quipped, "I never leave my house without my gun."  She actually voted with us on that one, as opposed to several Republicans...

[MphsTiger1981]

so before reading any of the thread other than the OP, how long has this party been going on, and have there been reported violent crimes there?


in reference to guns being on premise


Who are these certain people she is talking about?

Memphis in May festival started back in the 70's as I recall. Music festival the first weekend, BBQ festival the third weekend of May, thousands of drunks all gathered in one place.

Just spitballing here, but my guess is the people young Mandy/Mindy/or whatever her name was trying to make reference to would be local police and politicians not wanting to see anyone carrying guns down there, as you and I both know that always leads to blood running in the street.

MPD does a pretty good job with providing security for the immediate area where the events are held but there are usually one or two out of town guests who get robbed each year on the way back to their car or hotel. It does seem like someone got hurt pretty badly a few years ago leaving Beale St. headed back to their hotel.

[Oh Shoot]

You can probably be asked to leave, but wouldn't have to worry about criminal charges since you have a handgun carry permit.  It is no different than carrying at a business that has a no gun policy but you are legal carrying.  That business can still ask you to leave.  A handgun carry permit protects you from criminal charges, but not no gun policies.  Even off duty police can be asked to leave a business if they are carrying.

 

?? A business posted under 39-17-1359 carries the force of law, with criminal penalty for violation.

 

Is Memphis saying that this venue will be posted under 1359?

 

- OS

Edited May 9, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[JayC]

I don't see how they can prohibit firearms at all in a park legally...  

 

39-17-1359 does not apply, even if a business or other entity leases the park...  because it's a park owned or operated by the City of Memphis, 39-17-1359 can not apply, period.  and 39-17-1311 doesn't allow posting either, so seems like they're out of luck.

 

I don't think you'd have to full on go to trial on this, seems like a simple injunction would work...  the plain meaning of the law is clear, parks can't prohibit carry under any circumstances anymore...  unless a school board is actively using it.

 

And watch, if they lose they'll get the local school board to sponsor the event next year ;)

 

?? A business posted under 39-17-1359 carries the force of law, with criminal penalty for violation.

 

Is Memphis saying that this venue will be posted under 1359?

 

- OS

Edited May 10, 2015 by JayC

[GKar]

Welcome to the cluster known as "the parks bill", brought to you by your friendly local "Republican" supermajority...

[Randall53]

The faith these people seem to have that criminals and gang-bangers obey these rules and/or laws is astounding.

[Grunt67]

I'm no legal guru, but I can't see this holding up in court.

JMHO

[monkeylizard]

I don't think you'd have to full on go to trial on this, seems like a simple injunction would work...  the plain meaning of the law is clear, parks can't prohibit carry under any circumstances anymore...  unless a school board is actively using it.

 

And watch, if they lose they'll get the local school board to sponsor the event next year ;)

 

Not exactly. The new law only cites athletic facilities/fields in use by a school. Unless Memphis in May is held on the baseball diamond, schools being there in an official capacity are irrelevant.

[LagerHead]

I don't see how they can prohibit firearms at all in a park legally...  
 
39-17-1359 does not apply, even if a business or other entity leases the park...  because it's a park owned or operated by the City of Memphis, 39-17-1359 can not apply, period.  and 39-17-1311 doesn't allow posting either, so seems like they're out of luck.
 
I don't think you'd have to full on go to trial on this, seems like a simple injunction would work...  the plain meaning of the law is clear, parks can't prohibit carry under any circumstances anymore...  unless a school board is actively using it.
 
And watch, if they lose they'll get the local school board to sponsor the event next year ;)

Honestly, I can see how someone who is not a lawyer could be confused by the wording of the law. After all, it starts out saying:
 

An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by §§ 39-17-1351 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity.

But then it clearly goes on to state later:

(e) This section shall not apply to the grounds of any public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof. The carrying of firearms in those areas shall be governed by § 39-17-1311.

Unless I am totally out of my gourd - which is not outside the realm of possibility, it is saying you can post unless your event, etc. is taking place at a "park." Edited May 11, 2015 by LagerHead

[300winmag]

Yeah 39-17-1359 no gun signs do not apply to parks the way I understand the law now that it has been changed.  I still wonder if you could be asked to leave.  Of course, if you conceal no one will know and be able to ask you to leave. 

[DaveTN]

While the park is “leased” is it no longer open to the public for free? Who is responsible for injuries that occur during the event?

Responsibility and control will be the questions a court would have to answer. However, I doubt anyone will sue; because they will have no loss.

[dawgdoc]

Not that I'm going, but I sent them an e-mail explaining the change in the law.  I agree with LagerHead that they could mistakenly think they have the power to ban weapons, but I composed a well-worded message explaining why they cannot.  We'll see how they respond.

[Oh Shoot]

Not that I'm going, but I sent them an e-mail explaining the change in the law.  I agree with LagerHead that they could mistakenly think they have the power to ban weapons, but I composed a well-worded message explaining why they cannot.  We'll see how they respond.

 

Try one to Nashville Zoo also:

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/87494-nashville-zoo/page-2#entry1264932

 

(and forward)

 

- OS

[JAB]

so before reading any of the thread other than the OP,  how long has this party been going on, and have there been reported violent crimes there?

 

 

in reference to guns being on premise

 

 

Who are these certain people she is talking about?

 

You know, gangbangers, rapists, and other members of the general 'thug' population who would like to be able to carry on with their livelihoods (mugging and violent robberies) or engage in their personal choice of entertainment (raping, killing, assault with a deadly weapon) in a laid back, relaxed manner without worrying about some legally armed citizen giving them a one-way ticket to the morgue.  Yeah, okay, those are probably not the people to whom she meant to refer but that doesn't make it any less true.

Edited May 12, 2015 by JAB

[ou812]

well this was on local Memphis tv last night!

 

 

Tennessee Senate Majority Leader Mark Norris' office had their legal team double check this for FOX13: They told us, in fact, state law trumps any local legislation banning guns in the parks even Memphis in May. 

 

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/29058599/memphis-in-may-ban-on-guns-may-violate-state-law