Garland TX - Shootout at Islamic Cartoon Contest

[K191145]

Yes this is about PROVOCATION. Radical Muslims and their open hatred and bigotery of other religions and cultures, and hatred of the west and freedom have PROVOKED decent people who champion freedom and the Constitution to send them a message by telling them they will not be intimidated by their threats and will not back down to them by drawing Muhammid cartoons.

[Mark@Sea]

Why, exactly, are we concerned with provoking a cult that has been in a declared war on our culture for 1400 years, a declared war on our country for 36 years? Has it become prudent to remain silent in the face of barbarity?

[btq96r]

So, according to the source linked below, the event organizers spent $10k to hire 40 officers for security.  My gripes against moonlighting law enforcement aside, if you need to hire that many armed guards, you should wonder if your event is too stupid to proceed.  Whoever does the risk assessment for events booking the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland should be fired.

 

I'm also digging/hanging my head in shame at all the photo attention on the multicam dressed, taticool gear equipped SWAT team.  Aside from looking like an Airsoft team, they really didn't do anything besides crowd control after the fact.  It was an everyday traffic cop who actually dealt with the threat, and normal beat cops alongside alert citizens who carry are the best defense in this type of situation.  But I'm sure this incident will be used to justify or increase the budgets for SWAT teams...sigh :shake:  

 

As an aside, some of the aforementioned SWAT guys could use some time on the treadmill more than I do...which is saying something.  The tactics of the bad guy shooting at you is going to be moving faster and lighter than you, which puts you at a disadvantage.  So jacking up or carrying all that extra weight isn't really "doing it right."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3066779/Police-officer-suspect-said-injured-shooting-outside-art-anti-Muslim-exhibition-art-depicting-prophet-Muhammad.html

Edited May 5, 2015 by btq96r

[Mark@Sea]

Event organizers were required by the Center to pay for additional security as a prerequisite to holding the event. Good call, I'd say.

Odd how those holding pro islamic events (or events bashing Christianity) aren't required to procure additional security, but Christianity or pro freedom groups are the problem.

[leroy]

The first amendment and censorship are irrelevant in this incident.  I remember my Civics class quite well.  As dolomite pointed out, 1A pertains to government censorship, which hasn't even been mentioned.  I'm not advocating for censorship, but for a little less stupidity.  I'm glad the Muslim a-holes got toasted and that they cop/security guard didn't get hurt worse than he did.  On the other hand, this was such a failure for the ISIS bunch (if it really was ISIS), that maybe instead of using a couple rookies who can't shoot, next time they'll send some of their car-bomb experts.  Hopefully, none of these idiotic events are held here. hey

 

The First Amendment and censorship are not irrelevant to this issue... We can quibble about the "First Amendment" application here; but the greater principle is the principle that the hallmark of a free society is the principle of free speech, expression, and association by everyone...period... It's meant to be done without anybodies' interference; be it private, religious, governmental, or anything else ya can think of...Even well meaning "overseers" that see and think things that us delightful rustics are incapable of seeing and thinking...

 

One of the bed-rock premises of the founding of this country is that everyone can have his, her or it's say in the public forum or 'arena of ideas' about any issue... The First Amendment is a subset of the greater principle that codifies the principle that the gubmt can't meddle in the free speech thing... Tyrannys dont have that... Try havin a "Draw Muhammad" contest in Saudi Arabia, or even in Europe and see what happens...

 

Here is your original post verbatim... I added the underlines, brackets, and the numbers...

 

 

(...1...) This "art show" hardly falls into the category of something someone may have decided not to do to placate others. (...2...) On the contrary, its sole purpose was simply to antagonize Mulsims. In this respect, the organizers aren't much different than the Westboro loons. I'll probably never be known as a Muslim sympathizer,(...3...)  but I don't go out of my way to piss them off, much less organize an event and offer $10k to whoever can piss them off the most. (...4...)   If the Westboro bunch ever gets whacked, will you be posting about tyranny and censorship?

Number (...1...) is a judgement about what other's motives are... It's subjective...It may or may not be right... What if the goal of the organizers was to demonstrate the differences between muslum society and a free society...? The second (...2...) is your own answer... It's an opinion... Number (...3...) is what "you wouldn't do";...What "you or i would or wouldnt" do is irrelevant to what "they" decided to do... Number (...4...) is bad manners... 

 

You had your say in a semi public forum, and i had mine... We can agree to disagree on this one... Ya seem to be doin the same thing that the "best and brightest" do; namely, tellin us delightful rustics what to do and think; along with a little dose of put down...  It still sounds a bit dismissive and elitist ta me... 

 

While i'm on the soapbox; you really ought to take a Dale Carnegie course to clean up that tendency to make these backhanded attempts at put downs... It wont work on me... If ya want to have a "polite conversation"; be polite... It works ever time it's tried...

 

leroy

Edited May 5, 2015 by leroy

[K191145]

 you should wonder if your event is too stupid to proceed. 

 

 

 

Here again is a "FACT" that obviously some people are not seeing. TWO dangerous terrorist were taken out without them killing one innocent person because of what you call a stupid event. If they hadn't been killed at this event with the security they had, do you think these two would have given up on murdering a bunch of innocent people? My guess is that they would have proceeded to another target with little or no security and successfully killed a bunch of people. But they didn't did they? They chose this target and were stopped and eradicated. THAT"S FACT and it can't be disputed. So as it turns out, this event and all the money spent saved lives and was well worth it.

[btq96r]

Here again is a "FACT" that obviously some people are not seeing. TWO dangerous terrorist were taken out without them killing one innocent person because of what you call a stupid event. If they hadn't been killed at this event with the security they had, do you think these two would have given up on murdering a bunch of innocent people? My guess is that they would have proceeded to another target with little or no security and successfully killed a bunch of people. But they didn't did they? They chose this target and were stopped and eradicated. THAT"S FACT and it can't be disputed. So as it turns out, this event and all the money spent saved lives and was well worth it.

 

Of course, if they had made it onto the floor of the show, they would have been firing until mags were empty.  But, if they wanted to indiscriminately kill like you suggest, they wouldn't have waited for this event, they would have went to the local mall and screamed "Allah Akbar" as they opened fire on a Saturday afternoon months ago.  This was a reactionary shooting, which the event has culpability for bringing about.

 

I get that they were taken down without the casualties besides one light wound on a security guard, but that's more coincidence than anything and shouldn't be factored into the overall post event assessment.  Unless this event was deliberately designed as a plan to draw out active shooters...in which case we've opened up a new can of stupid.

 

If they had been smarter, had more numbers, more coordinated, or even better shots, they could have done a lot more than just walk up to the event and start shooting.  If they had killed more than two before being taken out, would you still say the event was worth it to get them?

Edited May 6, 2015 by btq96r

[Dolomite_supafly]

It does make one wonder where all the outraged Muslims were the night of the event. Perhaps word got out before hand and those that would normally protest stayed home to avoid being in the middle of a shoot out. I just find it hard to believe not a single person protested the event.

ISIS/ISIL has claimed responsibility.

[btq96r]

It does make one wonder where all the outraged Muslims were the night of the event. Perhaps word got out before hand and those that would normally protest stayed home to avoid being in the middle of a shoot out. I just find it hard to believe not a single person protested the event.

ISIS/ISIL has claimed responsibility.

 

I think that Muslims in that part of the country are just trying to keep their heads down, avoid the controversies, and live their lives.

 

As far as ISIS claiming responsibility, that's about as accurate as the NRA claiming responsibility for improving Tennessee's gun laws.  They just want the PR.  These dipsticks might have been inspired by ISIS, but they weren't controlled or tasked by them.

Edited May 6, 2015 by btq96r

[deerslayer]

The First Amendment and censorship are not irrelevant to this issue... We can quibble about the "First Amendment" application here; but the greater principle is the principle that the hallmark of a free society is the principle of free speech, expression, and association by everyone...period... It's meant to be done without anybodies' interference; be it private, religious, governmental, or anything else ya can think of...Even well meaning "overseers" that see and think things that us delightful rustics are incapable of seeing and thinking...

 

One of the bed-rock premises of the founding of this country is that everyone can have his, her or it's say in the public forum or 'arena of ideas' about any issue... The First Amendment is a subset of the greater principle that codifies the principle that the gubmt can't meddle in the free speech thing... Tyrannys dont have that... Try havin a "Draw Muhammad" contest in Saudi Arabia, or even in Europe and see what happens...

 

Here is your original post verbatim... I added the underlines, brackets, and the numbers...

Number (...1...) is a judgement about what other's motives are... It's subjective...It may or may not be right... What if the goal of the organizers was to demonstrate the differences between muslum society and a free society...? The second (...2...) is your own answer... It's an opinion... Number (...3...) is what "you wouldn't do";...What "you or i would or wouldnt" do is irrelevant to what "they" decided to do... Number (...4...) is bad manners... 

 

You had your say in a semi public forum, and i had mine... We can agree to disagree on this one... Ya seem to be doin the same thing that the "best and brightest" do; namely, tellin us delightful rustics what to do and think; along with a little dose of put down...  It still sounds a bit dismissive and elitist ta me... 

 

While i'm on the soapbox; you really ought to take a Dale Carnegie course to clean up that tendency to make these backhanded attempts at put downs... It wont work on me... If ya want to have a "polite conversation"; be polite... It works ever time it's tried...

 

Leroy

 

I don't see where I put anyone here down and if you think I'm being impolite, you need to thicken your skin. 

 

For some reason, I knew you wouldn't answer the question about Westboro. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

We are getting close to having this thread "censored". If we are going to start attacking I will lock and hide this thread so quick everyone here will think they have Alzheimers because they swear there was a thread they can no longer find.

Keep it civil, first, last and only warning.

I will not allow TGO to fall back into the depths of negativity.

[leroy]

I don't see where I put anyone here down and if you think I'm being impolite, you need to thicken your skin. 

 

For some reason, I knew you wouldn't answer the question about Westboro. 

 

You are impolite and cant read very well... Check out post #64 for the Westboro answer...

 

 

leroy

[rocketman]

Last time I checked being stupid, rude or even being a bigot with poor taste isn't a capitol offense. Those people were coming to kill. What they didn't plan on was a local LEO with a serious set of balls and a hot hand. They wouldn't have gotten far anyways. There were some well armed, serious looking security dudes at that event.

Edited May 6, 2015 by rocketman

[deerslayer]

You are impolite and cant read very well... Check out post #64 for the Westboro answer...

 

 

Leroy

 

Opinions vary.

[leroy]

Opinions vary.

 

True... So far, that's the only thing we've agreed on...

 

leroy

[Randall53]

The thing that troubles me in this is the fact that the world is getting scared to make fun of one particular religion when in the past all of the other religions have been fair game. The reason for this fear, is due to the extremely violent beliefs and actions of Islam. One can say that the violence is due to fringe members and this may be true, but then why the silence from the huge number of mainstream members? Personally, I'm not so sure. Being a country boy, I didn't even know what Islam was 30 years ago. Now it's in the news daily and usually the news is bad news. I see some here that are saying these types of events are poking a sleeping bear and I can understand this, but this bear that the world is growing to fear so much is growing exponentially and getting very powerful. Eventually, the bear is gonna wake up anyway and he's going to be very hungry. What then? What's the world going to do when the serious worldwide uprising starts? It's coming sooner or later. Edited May 6, 2015 by Randall53

[Hershmeister]

The thing that troubles me in this is the fact that the world is getting scared to make fun of one particular religion when in the past all of the other religions have been fair game. The reason for this fear, is due to the extremely violent beliefs and actions of Islam. One can say that the violence is due to fringe members and this may be true, but then why the silence from the huge number of mainstream members? Personally, I'm not so sure. Being a country boy, I didn't even know what Islam was 30 years ago. Now it's in the news daily and usually the news is bad news. I see some here that are saying these types of events are poking a sleeping bear and I can understand this, but this bear that the world is growing to fear so much is growing exponentially and getting very powerful. Eventually, the bear is gonna wake up anyway and he's going to be very hungry. What then? What's the world going to do when the serious worldwide uprising starts? It's coming sooner or later.

This isn't the first time islam has been in the news - in fact it was there at the beginning of our nation - see the Barbary Pirates

Also - see your history books for the following topics:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_war

[E4 No More]

It does make one wonder where all the outraged Muslims were the night of the event. Perhaps word got out before hand and those that would normally protest stayed home to avoid being in the middle of a shoot out. I just find it hard to believe not a single person protested the event.

ISIS/ISIL has claimed responsibility.

The local clerics were telling their people to stay far away from that even that night. That could be interpreted two ways, but my guess is they simply wanted them to not assist in starting something.

[mikegideon]

.

 

I'm also digging/hanging my head in shame at all the photo attention on the multicam dressed, taticool gear equipped SWAT team.  Aside from looking like an Airsoft team, they really didn't do anything besides crowd control after the fact.  It was an everyday traffic cop who actually dealt with the threat, and normal beat cops alongside alert citizens who carry are the best defense in this type of situation.  But I'm sure this incident will be used to justify or increase the budgets for SWAT teams...sigh :shake:  

 

 

 

No they're not. Those amateur Muzzies had AK's. If they had brought any skills along with them, it may have been more than a traffic cop could handle. I think SWAT gets way overused. With that said, I think Jihad assholes fall into the category of proper use.

Edited May 6, 2015 by mikegideon

[Dolomite_supafly]

No they're not. Those amateur Muzzies had AK's. If they had brought any skills along with them, it may have been more than a traffic cop could handle. I think SWAT gets way overused. With that said, I think Jihad assholes fall into the category of proper use.

One had a Keltec Sub2000.

I carry a rifle EVERYWHERE I go because you never know when or where an attack might happen.