California running out of water?

[Randall53]

Maybe a year left seems to be the consensus. Can you imagine the price of fruits, veggies and nuts when the well runs dry? It ain't gonna be a pretty sight at the grocery store checkout.

[Oh Shoot]

Environmental economics .. just too many people overall, so you start to see the crunch where supply/demand used to be only adequate at best for both populous and agriculture with normal rainfall. Doesn't take much in the way of normal weather ups and downs to hit criticality.

 

Whole Ogallala Aquifer that supplies the Great Plains will of course fizzle too, being over-driven at a scary rate. And that's over huge expanse where for the most part the population is quite low. But of course they're producing for the rest of us, so we all count in the overall equation of homo sapiens/resources no matter where we are.

 

- OS

Edited April 30, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[peejman]

Wonder what all those property tax dollars got used for instead of ensuring the infrastructure was up to the task when they granted all those building permits?  CA has all the water it could ever possibly need.  They merely need to look further left.  Atlanta is in the same pickle, except the ocean is a tad further away. 

[JPR1959]

 Atlanta is in the same pickle, except the ocean is a tad further away. 

 

People in Georgia keep saying their northern border is wrong by a mile.  This would give them access to the Tennessee River.  I don't understand why states that border the ocean don't build desalinization plants if they're that strapped for fresh water.

[EssOne]

The sociological impact would be catastrophic as well, and has already started. California's leading industry has always been farming. Where the wells have dried up there is no farming, and where there is no farming there are scads of unemployed farm workers and double scads of those who will no longer be able to make a living working in the farm support industries. The ripple effect through the state's already weakened economy would be humongous, even if you forget about the State's ridiculous spending deficits. We could conceivably be looking into one of the worst people nightmares in American history.

I don't think desalinization plants are the wonderful answer they're cracked up to be either. They would have to be funded by public funds. But how do unemployed farm workers pay the taxes necessary to build them, much less afford the premium prices needed to sustain them? And there is another problem with desalinization plants - mountains. If you look at a topo map of California, you will notice that the coast is lined with hills and mountains that the water would have to be pumped over, either before or after treatment. I would think that water bills in California would be as much or more than wintertime heating bills in Minnesota if desalinization is adopted as a significant solution.

Yes, I'm a native Californio who lived out there for 54 years. Edited April 30, 2015 by EssOne

[peejman]

People in Georgia keep saying their northern border is wrong by a mile.  This would give them access to the Tennessee River.  I don't understand why states that border the ocean don't build desalinization plants if they're that strapped for fresh water.

 

 

Because desalination plants are expensive and by necessity, they must sit on prime beach-front property.    Plus it's easier to whine about lines drawn on maps 200 years ago than to actually do something constructive.

 

 

 

The sociological impact would be catastrophic as well, and has already started. California's leading industry has always been farming. Where the wells have dried up there is no farming, and where there is no farming there are scads of unemployed farm workers and double scads of those who will no longer be able to make a living working in the farm support industries. The ripple effect through the state's already weakened economy would be humongous. We could conceivably be looking into one of the worst people nightmares in American history.

I don't think desalinization plants are the wonderful answer they're cracked up to be either. They would have to be funded by public funds. But how do unemployed farm workers pay the taxes necessary to build them, much less afford the premium prices needed to sustain them? And there is another problem with desalinization plants - mountains. If you look at a topo map of California, you will notice that the coast is lined with hills and mountains that the water would have to be pumped over, either before or after treatment. I would think that water bills in California would be as much or more than wintertime heating bills in Minnesota if desalinization is adopted as a significant solution.

Yes, I'm a native Californio who lived out there for 54 years.

 

 

I didn't realize they're as far along with desalination as they are...  http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-largest-ocean-desalination-plant-goes-up-near

 

Expensive?  Certainly, but so is life without water.  Why not raise the sales tax to fund it?  That's what we do here... 

[EssOne]

Because desalination plants are expensive and by necessity, they must sit on prime beach-front property.    Plus it's easier to whine about lines drawn on maps 200 years ago than to actually do something constructive.
 
 
  
 
I didn't realize they're as far along with desalination as they are...  http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-largest-ocean-desalination-plant-goes-up-near
 
Expensive?  Certainly, but so is life without water.  Why not raise the sales tax to fund it?  That's what we do here...

Unemployed people aren't a good source of sales tax revenue. The present rate is 7.5% with a cap at 10% for local levies. Add that to the already outrageous cost of living out there and it's very likely to be a burden that just can't be borne. Nothing is simple in a state having 38 million people.

[felinesNfreedom]

The sociological impact would be catastrophic as well, and has already started. California's leading industry has always been farming.
 

 

I thought their leading industry was porn..........

[btq96r]

I don't understand why states that border the ocean don't build desalinization plants if they're that strapped for fresh water.

 

Too much energy costs to make it a sound investment before it's do or die.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-01/energy-makes-up-half-of-desalination-plant-costs-study

http://www.usbr.gov/research/AWT/energy_use.html

[E4 No More]

I think that they should get the money from Streisand, et al.

 

The water issue is not new; they just let it get worse figuring on the rest of the US to bail them out.

[Randall53]

Well, I don't see anything happening to fix the problem or it would have already been started a few years ago. I do think that when you take 1 of the 2 most valued states that produce so much food (Florida and Californaia) out of the equation, then we'll see costs double at least. Not good for any of us.

[TSprint1]

I think California has the money already.  Their politicians just can't bring themselves to start making "hard" choices and stop buying votes. I was born and raised in Tennessee but lived for a few years in California when it really was a nice place to live and work. Their entitlement utopia ain't working and never will.

[EssOne]

You can believe California state government is serious about the water crisis when you see them outlaw the watering of all residential grass lawns. The southern half of California is almost entirely VA/FHA housing tracts with hundreds of thousands of grass lawns front and rear that often get watered once daily, and in many cases where the soil is decomposed granite, twice daily.  The water being used is fresh drinking water, not recycled gray water. So the amount of good water evaporating into the air and blowing out to sea every day is monumental. 

 

The action taken so far to meet the crisis is about like shooting at an elephant with a .22. The State Legislature is too busy enacting gun controls and laws regulating the declawing of domestic cats.

Edited April 30, 2015 by EssOne

[JPR1959]

Too much energy costs to make it a sound investment before it's do or die.

 

So while the governments of these states wrestle with how to get water, their people suffer.  It would be far cheaper to go ahead and build these plants now instead of waiting another 20-30 years when the cost will go up 5-10 times of today's price.  Meanwhile, California keeps removing dams so snail darters can flourish.

[btq96r]

So while the governments of these states wrestle with how to get water, their people suffer.  It would be far cheaper to go ahead and build these plants now instead of waiting another 20-30 years when the cost will go up 5-10 times of today's price.  Meanwhile, California keeps removing dams so snail darters can flourish.

 

This being California, I never said they were going to be smart about it.  :)

 

Honestly, I'd like to see California split into three.  Roughly everything above Sacramento would be one state, then divide the rest into two states with a border somewhere around Bakersfield.  That way there is no disruption to the balance of political power nationally (such as when AK and HI were admitted to the union) and all the nice land in NorCal can be kept for good use.  Let San Fran, LA, and the rest deal with the consequences of their actions.

[EssOne]

When I moved from Southern California to Northern California I entered into a private agreement with the President of Mexico whereby if he invaded California I would not offer active resistance until he got to Lodi. Everything South of that he could have. :pleased:

[Grunt81]

I thought their leading industry was porn..........

Funny, but wrong. I think the San Fernando Valley is where the most porn is filmed in the world, in places such as Chatsworth, Van Nuys, and North Hollywood. I know a guy (not a friend) who works the night shift editing all that crap.

 

A couple weeks ago the wife and I drove from the SFV, to Monterrey to vist her sister at NPS, then to Yosemite to spend a week camping, hiking, and fishing. They ain't whistling dixie. We drove through 100s of thousands of acres of farm lands. Many fields were dry and had no crops. There were huge signs that said, "Pray For Rain," and "No Water No Jobs." It was pretty dam sad to see that.

 

It would be nice if California could be divided into 3 separate states. Each would have their own governor, election polls, and laws. Wouldn't it be crazy to see that? Drive for 6 hours north of San Diego and all of a sudden you're in a place where hunting is more frequent, CCWs are way easier to get, etc..etc... It's too bad that all the evidence in the country shows that places where there are more guns have less crime. Our founding fathers knew that. Yet these politicians, including Obama, refuse to accept that. Don't worry, good folks from the south. The only people coming to Tennessee from Commiefornia bleed red, white, and blue just like ya'll.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Grunt81

[EssOne]

This Ventura native wishes you well, Grunt. Keep 'em straight out there.

[Grunt81]

Thanks EssOne. Believe me, I never hesitate to.

[Johnny Rotten]

People in Georgia keep saying their northern border is wrong by a mile.  This would give them access to the Tennessee River.  I don't understand why states that border the ocean don't build desalinization plants if they're that strapped for fresh water.

They do this is what 1 billion dollars gets you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlsbad_desalination_plant They converted a power plant into a desalination plant, I visited my buddy in vista ca, his house over looks it, the plant was running WFO..

[Ron Padilla]

I lived there for 58.5 more or less cept for the time i was in the Army ans a short stint in Alaska and Kali has had several water problems.  There was talk of a plant several years ago that was going to be built off of the coast out near Ventura if I recall correctly, had that been done there might not have been as big a problem today as there is.  But back then like now the tree huggers got in the way of doing it, if you have seen the Kali water duct it is truly something to see it travels from nother to southern kali and zigzags along the san joaquin valley, and if not mistaken there is also another pipeline that goes over the mountain from the coast to bakersfield, is that is a waterline then they could be doing more there for water.  Back in the late 70's and early 80's I drove truck everynight through the SJV during the summer and the humidity was terrible, think its bad here this is only a smiggen of what it was like back then in that valley.  To think of all the walnut trees and other fruit trees that the farmers are going to kill of intentionly because they cant water them is unthinkable, something has to be done and could have been done years ago but as usual politics got in the way. 

[felinesNfreedom]

Funny, but wrong. I think the San Fernando Valley is where the most porn is filmed in the world, in places such as Chatsworth, Van Nuys, and North Hollywood. I know a guy (not a friend) who works the night shift editing all that crap.

 

A couple weeks ago the wife and I drove from the SFV, to Monterrey to vist her sister at NPS, then to Yosemite to spend a week camping, hiking, and fishing. They ain't whistling dixie. We drove through 100s of thousands of acres of farm lands. Many fields were dry and had no crops. There were huge signs that said, "Pray For Rain," and "No Water No Jobs." It was pretty dam sad to see that.

 

It would be nice if California could be divided into 3 separate states. Each would have their own governor, election polls, and laws. Wouldn't it be crazy to see that? Drive for 6 hours north of San Diego and all of a sudden you're in a place where hunting is more frequent, CCWs are way easier to get, etc..etc... It's too bad that all the evidence in the country shows that places where there are more guns have less crime. Our founding fathers knew that. Yet these politicians, including Obama, refuse to accept that. Don't worry, good folks from the south. The only people coming to Tennessee from Commiefornia bleed red, white, and blue just like ya'll.

 

Yeah, I was not being serious ;)