Home Defense Shotgun - What is your take

[Oh Shoot]

IMO this proves my point. By the time I could recover from and put a second shot on target with a shotgun I could have 5-6 rounds down range with a handgun.

 

That first shotgun blast with 00 buck put 9 rounds of .30 downrange already.

 

- OS

[mikegideon]

Process your info.  2 inch spread at 5 yards.   5 yards is 15 feet.   If I shot on the extreme diagonal across the rooms in my home, that is about 15 feet.   Being anywhere else in the room, shooting the doorway, its going to be 10 feet or so.   2 inch spread is about the best we can hope for inside the home then.   That is less than impressive --- its brutal for an aimed chest shot centered on the heart or nose, absolutely.    But its nothing like the point in the general direction effect you get at 25 yards.   

 

The spread is less than impressive for home defense use.  It can safely be ignored in favor of using slugs. 

But the shotgun VASTLY outperforms a pistol, so that part of the comment is strange.   Hmm, a 100 grain bullet making a 30-35 caliber hole or a 400-500 grain bullet making a 70 caliber hole?  Physics is physics, and the momentum of a shotgun slug is impressive ... I have seen them go clean thru logs and backstops that stop a 9mm cold.

 

can't see any reason to convert to a pistol, but the spread is not the reason to use the shotgun at short ranges.  Its the momentum.  As for shooting fast.. I can shoot 2 or 3 from my shotgun as fast as a pistol and do about as well for accuracy at 10 feet.   I can jam the shotty in my hip and fire 10 in 7 or so seconds all hitting the torso of the intruder.   My hip won't thank me, but Ive done this, and I find the results to be acceptable.   There are times when the pistol's small size and higher capacity will win the day, sure.   Thankfully,  I have both on hand.

 

Well... you gotta be able to work a shotgun. :) Lots of dead critters to my credit, and they were a lot smaller and a lot faster than your basic hood rat. I'm a better shot with a long gun than a pistol. 00 buck is devastating if you give them the full payload. You are lucky to stop somebody with a single 9mm round.

 

To each his own. I normally only have pistols lying around. But, there's no way one will be as effective as a shotgun.

Edited April 23, 2015 by mikegideon

[enfield]

Hmmm - #1 buck, 16 .30 caliber balls per shot, 5 inch spread at 15 feet. Probably 12 -16" penetration per pellet. What's not to love?

I could probably hit something vital with that much firepower. Plus, my shotgun will slamfire 8 rounds. That's 110 pellets headed downrange in ~10 seconds.

[JAB]

That first shotgun blast with 00 buck put 9 rounds of .30 downrange already.
 
- OS

This. It isn't about the spread, so much, and certainly not about the 'you can just point it in the general direction' bs. The 'cone of death' is pretty much fiction at those ranges - which isn't a bad thing as I want to hit my intended target, not everything else around the target. Instead, it is about the decisive outcome of hitting a deadly threat with, as OS said, nine pellets of roughly .30 in one pull of the trigger.

[Oh Shoot]

And actually, to be precise, buckshot sizing is:

 

000: .36

00:   .33

0:     .32

1:     .30

4:     .24

 

 

 

[mikegideon]

This. It isn't about the spread, so much, and certainly not about the 'you can just point it in the general direction' bs. The 'cone of death' is pretty much fiction at those ranges - which isn't a bad thing as I want to hit my intended target, not everything else around the target. Instead, it is about the decisive outcome of hitting a deadly threat with, as OS said, nine pellets of roughly .30 in one pull of the trigger.

 

Yep. Shot placement is everything, except for that kinda payload. You can bleed somebody out by shooting them damn near anywhere.

[DaveTN]

I’d take a handgun over a shotgun any day for home defense; but the OP ruled that out with the over penetration/living in an apartment comments.

So pay attention and get back on track or start a shotgun vs. handgun thread.

[mikegideon]

I’d take a handgun over a shotgun any day for home defense; but the OP ruled that out with the over penetration/living in an apartment comments.

So pay attention and get back on track or start a shotgun vs. handgun thread.

 

:x:

[Ugly]

I thought the recommended procedure now was to throw a can of food......

My bad, I thought I was on the school teacher forum Edited April 24, 2015 by Still Ugly

[mikegideon]

I thought the recommended procedure now was to throw a can of food......
 

 

Not when you have a shotgun handy :)

[A.J. Holst]

Having taken a shotgun class with Randy, one overlooked item is making sure the shotgun fits you.

Randy noticed I was having difficulty quickly bringing to shoulder and transitioning to my weak side.

He quickly determined the stock was too long. I have subsequently cut down the stock, added a recoil pad and now I can more easily manipulate the shotgun (18.5" Rem 870 tactical)

[JAB]

Having taken a shotgun class with Randy, one overlooked item is making sure the shotgun fits you.
Randy noticed I was having difficulty quickly bringing to shoulder and transitioning to my weak side.
He quickly determined the stock was too long. I have subsequently cut down the stock, added a recoil pad and now I can more easily manipulate the shotgun (18.5" Rem 870 tactical)

Good point. I am lucky in that most will fit me okay. I also think that too short, while possibly not entirely comfortable, is better than too long.

[JR2ATN]

This is the setup I have on my 590A1, a CDM mount and Streamlight Polytac.  It's easy to do a quick on/off with my thumb.  I also swapped out the stock, which had a 14.25" LOP for the stock Mossberg puts on their Thunder Ranch model.  They say it's 13" LOP but I measure 12.75" 

 

[Spiffy]

I have an 870 with pistol grip stock that i used for a bed side shotty for years. It has now been replaced by my 1301 that I use for 3 gun.

[dcloudy777]

 Trainers sticking ARs in the hands of novice shooters telling them they are easier than a shotgun scare me a bit......and it's getting much more common.  

 

An AR15 is a much simpler weapon to "learn" than any shotgun, for a novice or an expert.

[enfield]

An AR15 is a much simpler weapon to "learn" than any shotgun, for a novice or an expert.

 

I don't know that I'd agree with this, unless you're comparing learning to shoot a rifle to learning to wing shoot with a shotgun.  Shotguns are simple weapons compared to an AR, and point shooting at stationary targets is easier to learn than sight alignment and breath control.

[Oh Shoot]

An AR15 is a much simpler weapon to "learn" than any shotgun, for a novice or an expert.

 

Only in one way IMO -- once charged all you have to do is keep pulling the trigger for 30 shots.

 

- OS

[chances R]

Pretty much happens to interesting threads.......drifts off topic.  Not that the AR is not a super HD weapon, but the OP pointed out he lives in an apartment.  Still maintain shotgun with #4 shot is very effective and much less a threat to the neighbors.

[Caster]

If you live in an apartment, an AR with Frangible ammo.  Any standard ammo is a fools choice, reckless and inconsiderate.  Stay away from slugs too.  

[enfield]

Only in one way IMO -- once charged all you have to do is keep pulling the trigger for 30 shots.

 

- OS

 

With a 12 gauge and #1 buck, I can send 32 .30 caliber balls down range with 2 trigger pulls.  Peace thru superior firepower!

 

You don't want to use that "armor-piercing" green tip ammo in yer AR - 55 grain soft points are best for home defense.  It's amazing how wallboard stops the 55 grain soft points, yet they'll sail right thru a padlock.

[Paisan]

Don't forget body armor - the reason I'm a carbine guy for HD. I know 00 buck will hit with great force, but it will not penetrate good body armor. Headshots are another thing, but same is true with a carbine - which has faster follow up (misses) and a whole lot more of 'em.

[bud]

. Edited August 8, 2015 by bud

[Patton]

The probability of one wearing body armor is greater than you may think. If they can get it, they will wear it. Trust me, it is not hard to get. I am not worried about a shotgun with 00 stoping them with armor on though.

[Chucktshoes]

The probability of one wearing body armor is greater than you may think. If they can get it, they will wear it. Trust me, it is not hard to get. I am not worried about a shotgun with 00 stoping them with armor on though.

This. I'll be wearing mine (and that's probably all :eek: ) if I have to confront someone in my home, why shouldn't I expect them to be wearing some as well?

[JAB]

The probability of one wearing body armor is greater than you may think. If they can get it, they will wear it. Trust me, it is not hard to get. I am not worried about a shotgun with 00 stoping them with armor on though.

 

I saw on one of those 'news' programs a few years back the story of a police officer who was shot in the chest by a bad guy with a shotgun at close range.  The projectiles did not penetrate the vest but it still pretty much put him out of the fight, at least for a few minutes, just from the concussive force.  He said it felt like getting hit in the chest with a sledge hammer and he was severely bruised, afterward.  Might even have cracked his sternum and/or a rib or two, I don't remember.  It is my understanding that kind of force hitting a person in the chest could, potentially, stop someone's heart.

 

I also do not get the comments that a shotgun is more difficult to use than an AR15.  Maybe that is because the first guns I ever owned in my early teens were shotguns and I have never owned an AR.  However, I do know that at night, with a 20 gauge - from a (later) measured 18.5 yards away using a flashlight attached to the shotgun - I can acquire and humanely drop a raccoon that is about 10 feet up a tree and quickly scurrying further up (after trying to invade my chicken coop) with one shot.  I would have zero confidence in my ability to do that with an AR.  Of course, raccoons are not two-legged home invaders - they are a much smaller target.  In the interests of full disclosure, I didn't shoot the raccoon with buckshot or with my main HD shotgun (which is a 12 gauge.)  I use #5 field loads in 20 gauge for such things.

Edited June 15, 2015 by JAB