disturbing stray comment in court

[Jonnin]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2015/apr/17/gang-members-testimony-marks-culture-change-f/299214/

 

The important bit:

 

She said there was probable cause to support the state's assertion that Smith went to East Lake Courts to kill Allen.

"Not only do I believe that you went there prepared, you had chambered one [round], so you were ready to carry that out in a very prepared manner," Statom said.

 

While the case is a blatant one of gangsta murder and typical hood violence, this comment indicates that simply having chambered a round might be sufficient to prove premeditation ...   I don't really like that ....

 

 

[10-Ring]

Just lawyer banter.  Of course they are going to exaggerate and embellish everything they can to make their point.  Doesn't mean that it holds any water.  Really though the fact that he carried a gun over there in the first place would be enough evidence of probable cause for a prosecutor to argue that he was going to shoot someone.

 

Which brings up an interesting (to me) point...  When does one become a bad guy?  A gang banger who has been involved in numerous shootings is obviously a bad guy.  But I personally know (I said know, not that they are my friends) people with HCPs that do drugs with their kids in the car while driving down the road and have been known to brandish their guns at people in traffic.  HCP holders they may be but model citizens they are not.  I'm sure there are felons out there that have straightened up and would be responsible enough to carry a gun, while I'm also sure that there are numerous people out there with HCPs that only have them because they haven't been caught and convicted of anything yet.  A lot of uncertainty there, which is all the more reason to carry.

[EssOne]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2015/apr/17/gang-members-testimony-marks-culture-change-f/299214/
 
The important bit:
 
She said there was probable cause to support the state's assertion that Smith went to East Lake Courts to kill Allen.
"Not only do I believe that you went there prepared, you had chambered one [round], so you were ready to carry that out in a very prepared manner," Statom said.
 
While the case is a blatant one of gangsta murder and typical hood violence, this comment indicates that simply having chambered a round might be sufficient to prove premeditation ...   I don't really like that ....

I can certainly see a prosecutor using the loaded chamber aspect to HELP establish premeditation, but only in the presence of other supportive evidence, like 10-ring said. I can't see how a loaded chamber alone could do it. The lawyer's job is to do anything and everything acceptable to the judge to influence the jury his way, whether he's a prosecutor or defender. That's all we're dealing with here. IMHO. Edited April 17, 2015 by EssOne

[JAB]

Seems like an easy enough argument to refute.  I would assume that the defendant's attorney would end up questioning at least one of the arresting officers on the stand.  So, the question might be:

 

Defense:  Just to clear up a point, the prosecutor has indicated that having a round in the chamber of a firearm indicates premeditation.  Officer X, do you carry a firearm on duty?

 

Officer X:  Yes.

 

Defense:  And do you carry it with a round in the chamber?

 

Officer X:  Yes.

 

Defense:  Based on your experience, is that common practice among police officers?

 

Officer X:  Yes.

 

Defense:  Ah, I see.  So, then, in your experience and professional opinion as an officer of the law and as you, yourself, and many of your colleagues carry with a round in the chamber , would you say that carrying a handgun with a round in the chamber necessarily indicates premeditation in a shooting incident?

 

Officer X:  No, of course not.

[EssOne]

It would be easier than that. Most officers are required under written Departmental policies to carry with a round chambered at all times. All the lawyer would have to do is get a copy of that policy and get it introduced into evidence. He wouldn't even have to call an officer to the stand.

[DaveTN]

The Judge was just making an observation. The DA and a jury will deal with the premeditation issue at trial.

It in no way impacts you carrying with a round chambered. Unless of course you are charged with premediated murder; in which case your HCP or how someone carries is moot. Edited April 17, 2015 by DaveTN

[Trekbike]

Seems like an easy enough argument to refute. I would assume that the defendant's attorney would end up questioning at least one of the arresting officers on the stand. So, the question might be:

Defense: Just to clear up a point, the prosecutor has indicated that having a round in the chamber of a firearm indicates premeditation. Officer X, do you carry a firearm on duty?

Officer X: Yes.

Defense: And do you carry it with a round in the chamber?

Officer X: Yes.

Defense: Based on your experience, is that common practice among police officers?

Officer X: Yes.

That's not always true because most of the TV shows and movies I see show everyone racking the slide before they fire. :)

[Oh Shoot]

That's not always true because most of the TV shows and movies I see show everyone racking the slide before they fire. :)

 

Usually more than once, every time they want to make it look like they're really really serious about it.

 

- OS

Edited April 17, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[nightrunner]

Usually more than once, every time they want to make it look like they're really really serious about it.

- OS

Makes me miss the days when everyone had revolvers. At least it was somewhat believable to cock the hammer.

[Oh Shoot]

Makes me miss the days when everyone had revolvers. At least it was somewhat believable to cock the hammer.

 

Was watching some flick last month that wasn't all that old really, where the cat was using a silencer on a revolver.

 

And there's always the old Die Hard porcelain Glock 7, made in Germany, that's undetectable in airports:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecwK3UMxoxQ

 

- OS

[nightrunner]

Was watching some flick last month that wasn't all that old really, where the cat was using a silencer on a revolver.


- OS

And I'm doubting it was a Nagant M1897.

[Oh Shoot]

And I'm doubting it was a Nagant M1897.

 

Of course not. That would have required actual firearm knowledge. ;)

 

- OS

[JAB]

Was watching some flick last month that wasn't all that old really, where the cat was using a silencer on a revolver...

- OS

 

 

And I'm doubting it was a Nagant M1897.

 

Old episodes of the original Hawaii Five-O run on MeTV (channel 10.2) as part of their detective/cop show lineup on Sundays.  In the last, few weeks - in different episodes - at least two, completely unrelated and unassociated bad guys have used 'silenced' revolvers.  I watch with my mom at her house and the first time I couldn't help but go on a mini-rant about how stupid that was.  I even said, "As far as I know that Russian Nagant revolver like I have (she knew which one I meant) is the only revolver than can be suppressed because the cylinder cams forward and seals the gap."  These were definitely not Nagants.  In fact, I am pretty sure they were J-frames - which caused another mini-rant when the bad guy fired six rounds before his ammo was spent (although I had to allow that I could have been wrong because I never got a good, close up look and, although it looked like a J-frame to me, the gun in question might have been a Colt Detective Special which did hold six rounds.)  Either way they were snubnosed revolvers.

Edited April 20, 2015 by JAB

[JAB]

That's not always true because most of the TV shows and movies I see show everyone racking the slide before they fire. :)

 

 

Usually more than once, every time they want to make it look like they're really really serious about it.

 

- OS

 

I've always wanted to see such a person have a partner who, on the first racking of the slide, asks, "Why in the he** didn't you already have a round chambered?"  and on subsequent rackings would ask, "Why are you wasting ammo by ejecting unfired rounds?  That's absolutely pointless.  This ain't Hollywood, you know!"