Open Carry at Walmart

[bersaguy]

No doubt this is in response to s minor rant from the other day.

The Benefactor box had a nice HCP badge in it and someone took it out. Personally I feel it is borderline impersonating an officer to display a badge. To me it all depends on how they look and dress. An older, bearded guy that is overweight with coveralls will not be mistaken for an officer while young clean shaven man, that looks fit, dressed in 5.11 clothing with their pistol on their side and a HCP will easily be confused for an officer. Those that feel the need to wear a badge while wearing cop garb have crossed over that line IMHO.

I seen a gentleman wearing a shoulder holster the other day. My wife and I had a bit of a chuckle over it but in the end I will support his right even though it is not something I would do. I will say I do not like being around others that wear shoulder holsters because the muzzle points right at the person behind them.

There are some who carry to impress or to try to get respect rather than for self defense. I am talking about those that carry a firearm that is not even close to being capable of use for self defense. Saw a guy carrying in Walmart. He had a single action revolver on his hip and it was obvious he was one of those "hey look at me" types. What he was carrying was a Ruger Blackhawk in 44 magnum but that did not make me think he was carrying for attention. What did was the fact the pistol had a barrel that was at least 12" long and it was in a holster like you would see in an old western movie. Pretty sure he had it tied off around his leg like most "gun fighters" do in the movies. The holster embossing on the leather and had spare cartridges in the loops in the belt. And that setup was nothing more than a means to draw as much as attention as possible. The caliber is way to powerful to be used in a populated area and gun was way to big to draw easily.

I agree with a lot of this very much including the Horizontal Shoulder Holsters. I have been looking for a good vertical drop in shoulder holster for several years and all I have found so far is junk. I don't want cloth or I would already have one. I have been putting a few dimes and nickles back because I have located a man here locally that works with leather and he has agreed to make me what I want when I get the funds saved back. I would not feel right knowing my muzzle was pointing at anyone standing behind me. Either way I will continue to carry concealed as I always wear a cover shirt large enough I don't print.  .............jmho

Edited April 17, 2015 by bersaguy

[jtmaze]

I was carrying small of back with a untucked Tshirt the other day with the wife at Walmart and she stopped me in the parking lot to stretch the bottom of my shirt because I was printing. I carry owb in the summer with on tucked shirt. That guy was lucky.


JTM
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[rmiddle]

I hear a lot of "nobody notices open carry", "you could carry a howitzer and most wouldn't notice", etc. I think most of those folks are actually "almost" carrying concealed, with service size heater or smaller tight to side with at least a shirt covering half of it or more.

 

Carrying a gat completely open with tucked in shirt and no jacket or whatever is going to be noticed, simple as that. I know because I've done it, and have gotten that attention. By what overall percentage depending on size of the thing and whatnot is debatable, but doesn't matter to me if it's only 1 in 20, I simply don't want the attention.

 

I also hear the "it's so much more comfortable" and "most expedient way to deploy" claims, and there's a lot of truth in that -- however, whether you mean it as such or not, a completely exposed roscoe is also an attention getting statement. And gawd knows based on the appearance of some folks I see doing it, not one that conveys a positive image to the average John Q in any way, either. (I'll include myself in that category at times, btw).

 

All that being said, of course I support your right to do it. But I'll stay in gray man mode myself, for a variety of reasons.

 

- OS

 

I currently live in the hell hole of Maryland but even here I see cop's, security guards, etc open carry.  Before I owned a handgun I never noticed any of them.  After buying my first handgun I saw them all over the place.  I think most people who aren't into guns wont notice them.

 

Thanks

Robert

[suspiciousmind]

I open carry sometimes and find that my situational awareness is on high everywhere I go. Obviously, you should always practice situstional awareness.. But, when I've open carried I feel hypersensitive.

There's a lot to be said about open carry in terms of comfort, ease of accessability, possible deterrent, etc.

There's good arguments for both sides, and if I owned a big iron I'd probably open carry it too. Single action revolvers are awesome and if the guy is well trained he could probably get more shots off in a second than I could with a semi-auto. :)

[Q-tip]

So are we going to ignore all the times CCers get attacked? OC doesn't ward off all idiots, nor does CC. People carrying both ways can get attacked. If OC was really that much more dangerous, there would be hundreds of bad stories as opposed to less than 10. Mr. Walker assumed he was attacked because of his pistol, but lacking any other evidence, especially from a mentally unstable person, it's really hard to say. It could just as easily have been because he made eye contact a few times. 

Rather than use this incident as an excellent example of level-headedness and quick thinking, most people here are ragging on a guy for how he carried, even though he ended the confrontation quite effectively. It's not like he was a couch potato who wandered out from his mom's basement with a Hi-Point in a floppy holster. When a CCer gets attacked, we get all excited and congratulate the person on doing a good job. But because his clothing is arbitrarily on the wrong side we use him as an example of what not to do? Come on, guys, we stand together or we fall together.

[zenworm]

Every time I consider open carrying (at least once a month) I remember that I'm going to get a LOT of unwanted attention, especially in Hipster-capitol-of-Tennessee East Nashville. I also worry about being targeted because of it. Between those two things, it's not worth it to me.

 

That being said, after a few years of carrying I don't worry about printing at all. I'm not gonna let it be super obvious, but if someone's watching me enough to notice the shape... oh well.

[10-Ring]

I don't always open carry but when I do I always use my Uncle Mike's nylon tactical holster and a clip my "concealed carry permit holder" badge to my belt.  Most people just assume I'm a cop.

 

 

No doubt this is in response to s minor rant from the other day.

The Benefactor box had a nice HCP badge in it and someone took it out. Personally I feel it is borderline impersonating an officer to display a badge. To me it all depends on how they look and dress. An older, bearded guy that is overweight with coveralls will not be mistaken for an officer while young clean shaven man, that looks fit, dressed in 5.11 clothing with their pistol on their side and a HCP will easily be confused for an officer. Those that feel the need to wear a badge while wearing cop garb have crossed over that line IMHO.
 

 

Just in case there was any doubt this post was written in humor.  Ironically I donated by Uncle Mike's nylon holster to the Benefactor Box, and I swear that it wasn't me that took the badge out. 

[JayC]

Go ahead and try it sometime...  very few people notice.  I end up openly carrying a lot more than I'd like to...  because I'm not going to disarm to fill my gas tank, etc and don't want to put a cover garment on while doing it...  In all the years I've been carrying I've only been approached once about being armed in a Krogers, and it was a very friendly encounter.

 

Every time I consider open carrying (at least once a month) I remember that I'm going to get a LOT of unwanted attention, especially in Hipster-capitol-of-Tennessee East Nashville. I also worry about being targeted because of it. Between those two things, it's not worth it to me.

 

That being said, after a few years of carrying I don't worry about printing at all. I'm not gonna let it be super obvious, but if someone's watching me enough to notice the shape... oh well.

 

[EMTRN]

The only time I open carry.......

[tnvarmint]

The only time I open carry.......

 

I recognize those dang Crown Vic seats from just about anywhere.  Although a little less roomy, the Charger seats are far more comfy imho.

[tnvarmint]

I typically CC when I am out in town but OC when working around the house or hiking/hunting.  I don't think many bears care if I am CC vs OC.  Occasionally I might run into town when I have been out working around the house and OC but this doesn't happen often as I will normally throw a shirt on over.  Mainly though I tend to err on the side of caution and remain inconspicuous as others of have stated.

[EMTRN]

I recognize those dang Crown Vic seats from just about anywhere. Although a little less roomy, the Charger seats are far more comfy imho.

I haven't experienced a charger yet!

[Patton]

Standard sights on a duty weapon?

[wjh2657]

1. It is against the law to wear/carry a firearm in TN. (Fact)

2. HCP offers a defense against the law. This means you can be required to present permit and demonstrate that you have not violated the law.

3. I have better things to do than argue with every LEO that I come across who questions whether or not I have a permit. The officer also has the right to ask you to surrender the firearm until he verifies your permit, same as verifying a drivers license.

 

Why start a hassle when it isn't necessary?

 

I don't pick fights with cops, I smile at them and act nice towards them. This might be one reason I have lived to be 72 years old!

 

I have also been EDCing ever since it became legal and nobody has ever noticed.

[highergr0und]

Having the OC law just makes me not worry about my gun getting exposed when I reach to get something from a shelf.  I like to carry OWB with shirt over it on occasion because it's just so comfortable, but even carrying IWB will get exposed sometimes.  I do wonder if there is more to that story...

Edited May 24, 2015 by highergr0und

[suspiciousmind]

1. It is against the law to wear/carry a firearm in TN. (Fact)
2. HCP offers a defense against the law. This means you can be required to present permit and demonstrate that you have not violated the law.
3. I have better things to do than argue with every LEO that I come across who questions whether or not I have a permit. The officer also has the right to ask you to surrender the firearm until he verifies your permit, same as verifying a drivers license.
 
Why start a hassle when it isn't necessary?
 
I don't pick fights with cops, I smile at them and act nice towards them. This might be one reason I have lived to be 72 years old!
 
I have also been EDCing ever since it became legal and nobody has ever noticed.

I have open carried in many places and states where legal and have encountered many cops. Not one of them hassled me. If there has been any communication, it was usually just a simple nod.

[Q-tip]

1. It is against the law to wear/carry a firearm in TN. (Fact)

2. HCP offers a defense against the law. This means you can be required to present permit and demonstrate that you have not violated the law.

3. I have better things to do than argue with every LEO that I come across who questions whether or not I have a permit. The officer also has the right to ask you to surrender the firearm until he verifies your permit, same as verifying a drivers license.

 

Why start a hassle when it isn't necessary?

 

I don't pick fights with cops, I smile at them and act nice towards them. This might be one reason I have lived to be 72 years old!

 

I have also been EDCing ever since it became legal and nobody has ever noticed.

 

Point 2, and therefore point 3, are incorrect. The TNSC ruled within the last year or two that the mere act of carrying a firearm is not cause for LEO to demand to see your permit. 

[Oh Shoot]

Point 2, and therefore point 3, are incorrect. The TNSC ruled within the last year or two that the mere act of carrying a firearm is not cause for LEO to demand to see your permit. 

 

News to me. No joy with search -- can you point to the case?

 

TIA,

 

- OS

Edited June 13, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Q-tip]

Seems like the case wasn't directly related to HCP's, possibly dealing with evidence from a crime being suppressed due to a firearm being the only PC for arrest. I'll have to dig more later. Consider my statement unproven for the time being.  :squint:

 

That said, has there ever been a case to prove the contrary? Has anyone ever been convicted of a crime or had their permit revoked because they refused to show a permit after a gun was the only cause for the stop?

Edited June 13, 2015 by Q-tip

[Oh Shoot]

Seems like the case wasn't directly related to HCP's, possibly dealing with evidence from a crime being suppressed due to a firearm being the only PC for arrest. I'll have to dig more later. Consider my statement unproven for the time being.  :squint:

 

That said, has there ever been a case to prove the contrary? Has anyone ever been convicted of a crime or had their permit revoked because they refused to show a permit after a gun was the only cause for the stop?

 

The purpose of the law is so that LEO can confirm you are not illegally carrying under 39-17-1307, simple as that.  LEO is allowed to ask by law because it's a crime to pack a heater in the general public and the permit is a defense, seeing the heater would be grounds to check, and you must comply as per 39-17-1351.

 

And yes, refusal to show permit is cause for having HCP suspended or terminated, as 39-17-1352 states. Whether anyone has had that happen I have no idea -- perhaps not likely any have been stupid enough to refuse?

 

- OS

Edited June 13, 2015 by Oh Shoot