Giving the PoPo the bird

[EssOne]

I was flipped off many times as a cop. I never tried to find a reason to cite them for it because contempt of cop isn't illegal and the Supreme Court had ruled that you cannot disturb a cop's peace because their job is inherently NOT peaceful.

Yep. Gospel truth. As a training sergeant, all kinds of red lights and bells went off when a new officer started reacting to this kind of stuff. It was a sure sign of big troubles ahead.

[EssOne]

 

 I suspect most officers buy this gear not because they need it but because it looks cool or intimidating. I know an officer that is an RSO and rarely works patrol. He wants all the cool guy gear to wear around the elementary school kids. He also said he wanted an accurate rifle to be able to shoot people, not criminals, at 300+ yards. I told him there is no situation in which LE should be shooting anyone at 300 yards and, again, he could not understand why. He said rather than chase someone down he would just shoot them.

 

 

This guy is an aberration his supervisors would dearly like to know about. It goes back to what I said in another similar thread about the "squad idiot", or the "squad embarrassment".

Edited April 14, 2015 by EssOne

[Dolomite_supafly]

All that gear makes it impossible to chase down bad guys. I would go out of my way to make sure I was carrying the least amount of weight possible, ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain. I paid a lot of money when I had my body armor custom made to ensure it was the absolutely lightest available at the time. I would never wear anything that I absolutely did not need.

 

If officers were required to "walk their beat" like the old days they would not be wearing all that gear and those in the community would be able to talk to them. Most crimes are solved by witnesses in the community and a lot of crimes are going unsolved because there is a disconnect between the community and those charged with protecting that community. When officers quit walking around the communities they put a barrier up to the communication that solves crimes and protects communities. Most people will not talk to cops these days, even if they do have information to solve a crime, because of a fear of what the cop might do to them.

 

Even I avoid officers like the plague. The reason is because I have called them in my time of need only to have them hassle me rather than do what they should do. We had something serious happen that REQUIRED them to respond but they refused to respond. My attorney called the sheriff and threatened to sue the department. Well they did respond to my door but not to do what was right. They knocked on the door and my wife answered. The officers asked for me and my wife told them I was sleeping. They refused to leave so my wife woke me up and when I got to the door the first thing they said was "What kind of guns you have in the house". They were there because I disrespected them. I have no delusions to think they would do what is right, now or ever. If they could they would have arrested me for calling them in my time of need.  

 

This guy is an aberration his supervisors would dearly like to know about.

They know because it is his supervisor telling him what to buy. BTW, his supervisor is the one that showed up at my door asking what weapons I have in the house after my attorney called the sheriff.

[Dolomite_supafly]

And that supervisor had not acknowledged me for the past 5-6 years when I would say hello or wave at him. He had zero reason to be at my house because it was days after I needed officers at my house. The ONLY reason for him to come here was to try to find a reason to throw me in jail.

 

I will never again call 911, or the sheriff's office, until after everything is over and done with. I have called 911 plenty of times and get told the officers will not be coming.

 

They refuse to investigate anything except those who disrespect them.

[btq96r]

Btr, that's my point about Jade Helm. Is it training for over seas or to familiarize the locals? Why would these guys be dressed for battle?

 

Jade Helm is just a training exercise.  The Special Ops guys are trying to get back to some core skills that are perishable and suffered from repeated deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan.  If you look at the maps where they are training, it mirrors the challenges/differences in geography and size that running missions in the Middle East and Africa bring.  It's as much an exercise for the staffs, planning, and logistics folks as it is the guys at the pointy end of the spear.

 

As to the cops being dressed for battle...they think they're bad ass.  Simple as that.   

 

I don't have a problem with people having protective gear, heck I have everything I would hope to need to protect myself. And it is good to be trained on all the gear you might have to use. The problem I have is when that gear serves no purpose other than intimidate or that when one group can wear it and another can't. Imagine the kind of reaction I would get if I decided to go into Walmart in full kit, minus a rifle? LE would show up in a similar get up and tell me I cannot wear mine yet they can wear theirs.

 

I think a lot of the "mentality" could be cured by making LEO's go back to a standard uniform set.  City cops- black, blue, some solid color based on the season if desired.  County Sheriff- Tan or Green.  No camouflage whatsofuckinever as there is really no call for it in a law enforcement setting that I can see.  Even a SWAT team has no real need for camo.  Unless someone can tell me how woodland camo for a city environment makes sense for an element that isn't trying to hide.

 

Were I ever in charge of a LE agency, I'd also take care to look at the kit they use.  Level II-IIIa soft armor should be enough for daily patrols, hard armor should only be worn during high risk situations, the everyday threat it's made for just isn't there.  Perception matters when interacting with the public and I'm sick of seeing Americans subject to the same styles and techniques we used on Iraqis and Afghans.

[EssOne]

Jade Helm is just a training exercise.  The Special Ops guys are trying to get back to some core skills that are perishable and suffered from repeated deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan.  If you look at the maps where they are training, it mirrors the challenges/differences in geography and size that running missions in the Middle East and Africa bring.  It's as much an exercise for the staffs, planning, and logistics folks as it is the guys at the pointy end of the spear.

 

As to the cops being dressed for battle...they think they're bad ass.  Simple as that.   

 

 

I think a lot of the "mentality" could be cured by making LEO's go back to a standard uniform set.  City cops- black, blue, some solid color based on the season if desired.  County Sheriff- Tan or Green.  No camouflage whatso####inever as there is really no call for it in a law enforcement setting that I can see.  Even a SWAT team has no real need for camo.  Unless someone can tell me how woodland camo for a city environment makes sense for an element that isn't trying to hide.

 

Were I ever in charge of a LE agency, I'd also take care to look at the kit they use.  Level II-IIIa soft armor should be enough for daily patrols, hard armor should only be worn during high risk situations, the everyday threat it's made for just isn't there.  Perception matters when interacting with the public and I'm sick of seeing Americans subject to the same styles and techniques we used on Iraqis and Afghans.

This is exactly the kind of loss of public support I was talking about. I agree with a great deal of this.....but nobody listens to retirees.

[LagerHead]

Good lord, if you're tho thenthitive that a little finger flying maketh you pith yourthelf, maybe you should conthider a different profethion. One that doethn't require interaction with other humanth. Juth thayin'.

[gjohnsoniv]

Good lord, if you're tho thenthitive that a little finger flying maketh you pith yourthelf, maybe you should conthider a different profethion. One that doethn't require interaction with other humanth. Juth thayin'.

Samuel Jackson, is that you?

[A.J. Holst]

I think the militarization of the police began in the 20 and 30s when criminals could easily acquire surplus weapons and took the time to learn how to use them. Cops were outgunned so they got the equivalent firepower.

Fast forward to today and the myth is spread that so many criminals have and use main battle rifles and equivalents that Cops must have greater firepower to protect and serve.

[NRA]

Judas Priest.  An armored vehicle for a traffic stop? 

 

As if the whole thing didn't have enough of a Fallujah vibe to it, check out how one of the officers was decked out for battle enforcing the law.  That’s a US Marine Corps camouflage pattern under all that body armor designed to protect against IED shrapnel, which I’m sure they see plenty of in Gainesville, Florida.

 

I bet he has very small huevos

[DaveTN]

Fast forward to today and the myth is spread that so many criminals have and use main battle rifles and equivalents that Cops must have greater firepower to protect and serve.

The Bank of America Shootout wasn't a myth. 11 Police Officers and 7 civilians were shot because responding Officers didn't have the firepower to take down the perps.

This isn't a myth...
https://www.odmp.org/

I'm just saying you don't have to be dressed in subdued uniforms and wear masks to kill an active shooter with a M16, AR-15 or a Barrett.

[Mike.357]

if a man can't handle someone giving them the finger then they have no business being a cop. Give me the finger and I will wave at you and smile.  When in doubt fall back on Mom's advice of "stick and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me."  Flying a FU is simply words.  Man up and shine it on.

 

I firmly believe any law enforcement should be dressed in a shirt and tie (aside for an operation that is foreseen as especially dangerous.)  I would allow a Polo if it was casual Friday.

 

Cops dressed like para military is beyond ridiculous.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Mike.357

[Garufa]

Whatever happened to "protect and serve"?

[Mike.357]

more like beat down and arrest, their new motto

[Troutburger]

Whatever happened to "protect and serve"?

They protect and serve themselves...

[nightrunner]

That picture looks like a balloon with a grape stuck on top of it.

How does he even move? Much less get in and out of a vehicle.

[DaveTN]

A friend and I had a conversation the other day about a lot of this. The biggest draw for LE officers to dress like this is money, federal money. They get federal money for a lot of things and it is federal money that MUST be used for certain things. So as long as the federal government continues to gives these guys money they will continue to use it. Same with the 1033 program that gives departments excess military equipment to use, all they have to do is apply and agree to maintain it. But even so the vast majority of the stuff we see officers wearing and using are purchased by the departments and not gotten from the federal government. But as long as the federal government is taking our tax dollars and equipping these paramilitary departments it will continue to get worse.
 
The same officer as I mentioned earlier said he was going to work DUI interdiction. I asked if he meant a checkpoint and he said it was not a checkpoint. He said they were going to patrol the roads looking for DUI drivers. He said they had to do it for a few hours so they could tell the government they were doing it in order to get a grant to get new patrol cars. I have a serious problem with this scenario, several actually. First what do they normally do? I mean if they are making a special time to look for DUI drivers are they not looking for them during normal patrols? Second, how can a couple additional officers working a couple of extra hours justify the cost of new patrol cars? He said him and another officer were working the DUI interdiction to get the grant.

If they just want new cars tell them to ask the insurance companies. It’s been many years ago but our department was offered free patrol cars for increased DUI enforcement. Our Chief turned them down because he said it implied we weren’t doing enough already. If you want more DUI enforcement you need more than free cars; you need more Officers and they wouldn’t pay for that.

It’s a no brainer to be able to justify a DUI unit. Most larger departments have them. Nashville has a DUI unit.
http://www.nashville.gov/Police-Department/Field-Operations/Special-Operations/Traffic-Operations/DUI-Unit.aspx

[FUJIMO]

.

 

 

You mean local small town police AREN'T suppose to look like this ?

 

Someone should tell New Market "City" police that then :)

[E4 No More]

Whatever happened to "protect and serve"?

The Supreme Court threw the former out long ago when they ruled that the police have no duty to protect you.

[E4 No More]

If they just want new cars tell them to ask the insurance companies. It’s been many years ago but our department was offered free patrol cars for increased DUI enforcement. Our Chief turned them down because he said it implied we weren’t doing enough already. If you want more DUI enforcement you need more than free cars; you need more Officers and they wouldn’t pay for that.

It’s a no brainer to be able to justify a DUI unit. Most larger departments have them. Nashville has a DUI unit.
http://www.nashville.gov/Police-Department/Field-Operations/Special-Operations/Traffic-Operations/DUI-Unit.aspx

Where I was a cop, (Claycomo, MO), we had the Claycomo Ford Assembly Plant. We had to drive Fords when at the time, (late 80's), they didn't offer the best choice for a patrol vehicle. The plus side was that Ford leased us our cars VERY cheaply, so we got new cars every two years. Our Mayor liked the color red, so my Chief always ordered red patrol cars which made us look like fire department. I was so happy when Ford discontinued red on the Crown Victoria.

[JAB]

Judas Priest.  An armored vehicle for a traffic stop? 

 

As if the whole thing didn't have enough of a Fallujah vibe to it, check out how one of the officers was decked out for battle enforcing the law.  That’s a US Marine Corps camouflage pattern under all that body armor designed to protect against IED shrapnel, which I’m sure they see plenty of in Gainesville, Florida.

 

 

Wow - when did Gecko45 leave the tactical retail response team to take a job as an ordinary cop?  I guess he was tired of cops getting all the glory when he and his team were the real heroes.  Was the armored vehicle in question possibly an armored golf card or maybe a hardened Segway?  Are you sure it was an actual police vehicle or did it maybe have Mall of America painted on the side?

 

Some of you guys mentioned that such gear might be okay if serving a no-knock warrant, etc.  Okay, except that should be a moot point as there should be no such thing as no-knock warrants.  Criminal or not, they are a civilian police force serving warrants on civilian offenders (or, in some cases, the neighbor of a civilian offender when, oops, they kick in the wrong door and shoot/beat down the wrong people or kill seven year old girls who are asleep on the couch.)  They are not military anti-insurgent forces going door to door in Afghanistan nor are they carrying off an "0 Dark Thirty" mission.

Edited April 15, 2015 by JAB

[EssOne]

Hmmm. This is starting to sound like one of the cop bashing threads of old.

[Troutburger]

Hmmm. This is starting to sound like one of the cop bashing threads of old.

Nah, I think most of us have a real healthy respect for cops and the duties they undertake.

Now Urban commandos, well not so much. 

[LagerHead]

Hmmm. This is starting to sound like one of the cop bashing threads of old.

Cops are like the rest of us: Some great, some a-holes, and a lot right in between. That being said, if the only thing that happened was a cop got the bird from some guy, there is no excuse for the cop to do anything but shake his head and move on.

That being said, there are three sides to every story: Yours, mine, and the truth. ;)

[JAB]

Hmmm. This is starting to sound like one of the cop bashing threads of old.

 

I think it is both dangerous and against the ideals of freedom and liberty to cast any and all criticism of police procedure or an individual officer's actions as 'cop bashing' and, therefore, dismiss such criticisms as simply ire against officers, in general.  Just being a cop doesn't automatically make an individual intelligent, rational, honorable or even a very good human being.  A jerk wearing a police uniform and carrying a badge is simply a jerk in uniform carrying a badge - a jerk that is granted full police powers to reinforce his or her tendency toward being a jerk.  Calling that jerk a jerk is simply speaking the truth, not 'cop bashing'.  As hard as it is for some folks to believe, there are bad cops out there as well as otherwise good cops who are subject to poor training or bad procedure.  Just criticizing police procedures, the militarization of our civilian police or the action of individual officers does not mean that a person dislikes, disrespects or disdains officers as a rule.  Further, not every officer needs to dress or be equipped as if he or she were part of an invading force.  In fact, there are some officers who work in such relatively safe and low-crime areas that the likelihood that they will be killed in the line of duty is probably about equal to - well, honestly, probably a good bit less than - my chances of getting killed in a car crash on my way to work.

Edited April 15, 2015 by JAB