Motorcycle Safety Gopro video

[Ugly]

Warning, it is disturbing. The family decided to share their sons footage of his last ride. Ride safe and look out for the other guy!

 

http://q13fox.com/2014/09/05/family-releases-gopro-video-of-fatal-motorcycle-crash-for-road-safety-campaign/

[Monkeyman2500]

I definitely feel people should be more aware of bikes on the road, but at almost 100mph the speed at which he is closing is hard to judge. I've had this happen with cars on the road speeding excessively in traffic. You are checking more than one thing at a time. One moment you see someone and they seem a long distance away, you check other spots, then before you know it they are on you. It's hard enough judging the speed of cars, much more a small bike. I think this video speeks to safer driving for both parties. Sorry to see a young man lose his life this way.

[suspiciousmind]

My cousin died in a similar fashion several years ago. A young teen driver with a learner's permit was driving with his Dad in the passenger seat and pulled out in an intersection while my cousin was going something like 90 miles an hour in a 45 zone. Nailed the truck but wasn't as lucky as this motorcyclist. He died several days later from the trauma to his head.

At that rate of speed, it's hard to judge with bikes. It seems like the car hesitated right before impact. Look out for bikes, but also bikers don't speed like you have a death wish. Edited April 13, 2015 by suspiciousmind

[Ugly]

As a biker in traffic, you have to be on the defense constantly. I have become suspect of every single vehicle around me, I expect them to not see me. It makes me ride slower, keep my head on a swivel and avoid as much traffic as I can.

[Murgatroy]

If we assume the car saw him, the driver had no way of knowing that the squid was doing 100MPH in traffic. The driver had plenty of time to complete the turn had the rider been doing 60MPH, which was the speed limit.

 

This accident is 100% (or should we say 97%) on the rider, not the driver.

[peejman]

If we assume the car saw him, the driver had no way of knowing that the squid was doing 100MPH in traffic. The driver had plenty of time to complete the turn had the rider been doing 60MPH, which was the speed limit.

 

This accident is 100% (or should we say 97%) on the rider, not the driver.

 

 

Agreed. Ride like you're invisible and everyone is trying to kill you. 

 

He traveled that road routinely.  He saw the oncoming traffic and knew that intersection was there.  It's a sad case of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."   The average driver is completely unprepared for the closing speed of a bike (or anything else) traveling twice as fast as expected.  RIP.

Edited April 13, 2015 by peejman

[LagerHead]

If we assume the car saw him, the driver had no way of knowing that the squid was doing 100MPH in traffic. The driver had plenty of time to complete the turn had the rider been doing 60MPH, which was the speed limit.
 
This accident is 100% (or should we say 97%) on the rider, not the driver.

I guess it's OK to kill a motorcyclist because he was speeding. Drivers of cars bear no responsibility to look out for us because as we know, cage drivers never speed or change lanes without looking, or spend their time in their car with their cell phones plastered to their heads. Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, right?

[Ugly]

Safety awareness is effective if it is emphasized on auto driers as well as motorcyclists. That should be the drive instead of a helmet law.

I have witnessed effective safety campaigns in two states. Florida has even made headway by teaching school kids to be aware of motorcycles and bicycles on the road.

Stiff penalties for car drivers go along way too! For too long the "I didn't see em" was an excuse that let drivers off with a slap on the wrist. Jail time opens up some eyes.

I think the dude in the video was goin too fast otherwise he would've stopped or avoided the car.

Of course the car turned in from of him and didn't have a clear path. Should be found at fault as well.

[Capbyrd]

I don't think anyone is saying that the car driver isn't at fault.  He clearly turned into oncoming traffic.  But I'm sure he didn't think the bike was going 100 either.   Both people in this one are at fault.  

[peejman]

I guess it's OK to kill a motorcyclist because he was speeding. Drivers of cars bear no responsibility to look out for us because as we know, cage drivers never speed or change lanes without looking, or spend their time in their car with their cell phones plastered to their heads. Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, right?

 

 

Of course both are at fault, but mostly the rider. 

 

As a motorcyclist one has the responsibility to expect everyone else to be doing stupid things.  It goes with the territory.  Life is not a race track where everyone is a trained professional who inherently receives some level of trust.  I don't expect anyone to see me, much less yield to me, ever.  If I'm riding so fast that I can't stop or otherwise evade when someone doesn't something stupid, it's MY fault, not theirs. 

 

From what I can tell in the video, it looks like the car started to turn, saw him, and stopped.  He was going much too fast and riding in the right edge of the lane, both of which make him less visible and give him less time/space to maneuver.  When he clipped the corner of car, it appears to be stationary.  Had he expected the car to pull out in front of him and had an escape route in mind before he even got to the intersection, it wouldn't have happened. 

 

There are times where you're just screwed and can't do anything, but those are very, very rare. 

[LagerHead]

Of course both are at fault, but mostly the rider. 
 
As a motorcyclist one has the responsibility to expect everyone else to be doing stupid things.  It goes with the territory.  Life is not a race track where everyone is a trained professional who inherently receives some level of trust.  I don't expect anyone to see me, much less yield to me, ever.  If I'm riding so fast that I can't stop or otherwise evade when someone doesn't something stupid, it's MY fault, not theirs.

This is quite an oversimplification. You could be doing 20MPH in a 55MPH zone and it's possible for someone to pull in front of you at the very last split second. That doesn't make it your fault. I knew a guy that was sitting at a red light who was killed by a car that rear-ended him. Was that his fault because he didn't evade the car?
 

From what I can tell in the video, it looks like the car started to turn, saw him, and stopped.  He was going much too fast and riding in the right edge of the lane, both of which make him less visible and give him less time/space to maneuver.  When he clipped the corner of car, it appears to be stationary.  Had he expected the car to pull out in front of him and had an escape route in mind before he even got to the intersection, it wouldn't have happened. 
 
There are times where you're just screwed and can't do anything, but those are very, very rare.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not relieving the guy of his responsibility. His mother doesn't either. She acknowledges that he was going too fast because he was. But the lady should have just let him go by. It is pretty difficult for a driver, especially one who has never been on a bike, to judge the speed and distance of a motorcycle. The guy on the bike should have driven slower and she should have used different judgment.

But if he had been going slower - even 10MPH below the speed limit - there's no guarantee this video wouldn't have played out the exact same way in the very next intersection with another car. As you apparently know, people in cars act like they enjoy testing the maneuverability of our bikes on a pretty regular basis. My only point was, the guy wasn't 100% at fault. You don't get to just disregard someone because they happen to be speeding.

[peejman]

This is quite an oversimplification. You could be doing 20MPH in a 55MPH zone and it's possible for someone to pull in front of you at the very last split second. That doesn't make it your fault.

True, but the impact is much less likely to kill you.

I knew a guy that was sitting at a red light who was killed by a car that rear-ended him. Was that his fault because he didn't evade the car?

I'd say yes, understanding that would be an unpopular opinion.

That happens often enough that every rider should be aware of it. As such, I always check my mirrors frequently when I'm sitting at the back of the line at a light. I keep the bike in gear, in the left track, and with enough space and pointed in a direction such that I can escape quickly (typically between the cars ahead) if needed. When a vehicle approaches from behind, I flash my brake light a few times. If it still doesn't look like they're gonna stop, I get outa dodge. And I've done that once or twice. One occasion I'm certain was warranted as the car stopped about 2ft from the car I was behind and the lady driving it looked startled, as did the folks in the cars I was now between.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not relieving the guy of his responsibility. His mother doesn't either. She acknowledges that he was going too fast because he was. But the lady should have just let him go by. It is pretty difficult for a driver, especially one who has never been on a bike, to judge the speed and distance of a motorcycle. The guy on the bike should have driven slower and she should have used different judgment.

But if he had been going slower - even 10MPH below the speed limit - there's no guarantee this video wouldn't have played out the exact same way in the very next intersection with another car. As you apparently know, people in cars act like they enjoy testing the maneuverability of our bikes on a pretty regular basis. My only point was, the guy wasn't 100% at fault. You don't get to just disregard someone because they happen to be speeding.

I agree, but the likelihood of death as a consequence sure goes down. It doesn't appear that the rider hit anything other than the ground/trees. Makes me wonder what exactly killed him. Broken neck maybe?

[Murgatroy]

I guess it's OK to kill a motorcyclist because he was speeding. Drivers of cars bear no responsibility to look out for us because as we know, cage drivers never speed or change lanes without looking, or spend their time in their car with their cell phones plastered to their heads. Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, right?

Easy killer. I ride.

 

This idiot made a choice to ride like a total asshat on a public road. He brought this on himself. If the driver saw him, he never had a chance to react with the idiot running at 100MPH on a two lane highway.

 

Yeah. The driver bears little responsibility IN THIS INSTANCE.

 

When Paul Walker and his buddy went out in a blaze of glory on the light pole, I said the same thing. And if some jackass were doing this in a Pinto, I would say the same thing. If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. To claim that the biker was 100% innocent in this and the onus is all, or even in a major part on the driver is an ignorant statement.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Murgatroy

[LagerHead]

I'd say yes, understanding that would be an unpopular opinion.

It would also be wrong. The guy on the motorcycle is not in control of the car. Maybe the guy on the bike could have done something if he had seen it coming, but in what insane bizarro world does that make it his fault? You do understand what fault means, right?

That happens often enough that every rider should be aware of it. As such, I always check my mirrors frequently when I'm sitting at the back of the line at a light. I keep the bike in gear, in the left track, and with enough space and pointed in a direction such that I can escape quickly (typically between the cars ahead) if needed. When a vehicle approaches from behind, I flash my brake light a few times. If it still doesn't look like they're gonna stop, I get outa dodge. And I've done that once or twice. One occasion I'm certain was warranted as the car stopped about 2ft from the car I was behind and the lady driving it looked startled, as did the folks in the cars I was now between.

Nobody is perfect 100% of the time. Laying blame at the feet of the victim is just...I can't even find a word, really. The guy who didn't hit his brakes in time is the one and only person in this scenario who shoulders 100% of the blame.

I agree, but the likelihood of death as a consequence sure goes down. It doesn't appear that the rider hit anything other than the ground/trees. Makes me wonder what exactly killed him. Broken neck maybe?

I think even at 60MPH, hitting an object with significantly less "give" than the human body is going to be a losing situation. I know a guy who hit a mailbox doing 35MPH and died as a result. Stuff happens. Riding a motorcycle is a calculated risk. Those of us that have been riding our whole lives weigh that risk vs. the enjoyment we get out of it and have decided we would rather die on a motorcycle than live in a cage. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I hope when I go it's on a beautiful winding mountain rode going too fast and possibly missing a curve with nothing but clear blue skies between me and the river below. And I hope somebody is behind me with their GoPro rolling to get footage.

Again, I am in no way relieving the guy in the video in the OP of any of his responsibility. Not one bit. My ONLY problem is someone saying that the driver of the car shared none of that responsibility.

[LagerHead]

Easy killer. I ride.
 
This idiot made a choice to ride like a total asshat on a public road. He brought this on himself. If the driver saw him, he never had a chance to react with the idiot running at 100MPH on a two lane highway.
 
Yeah. The driver bears little responsibility IN THIS INSTANCE.
 
When Paul Walker and his buddy went out in a blaze of glory on the light pole, I said the same thing. And if some jackass were doing this in a Pinto, I would say the same thing. If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. To claim that the biker was 100% innocent in this and the onus is all, or even in a major part on the driver is an ignorant statement.

You didn't read my other posts, apparently. I never relieved the rider of any responsibility. I just don't pin 100% of it on him.

People speed. I'd wager that you speed. I speed. I probably wouldn't have been going this fast in this kind of area, but as you said, the guy made his decision by which he lives or, as in this case, dies.

So, knowing that people speed, as every single driver on the road does, they must also take into account those speed when making a decision to turn. All of this took place in the span of less than two seconds. At 100MPH that puts him 292 feet away from the car at the time she made the decision to turn. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that she should have waited to let him pass since, as we both know, judging the speed and distance of motorcycles is notoriously difficult.

You can blame ignorance. Perhaps she honestly didn't know, or just never thought about that. But ignorance in no way relieves you of responsibility. If you picked up a Glock and had never seen one and assumed that the safety that doesn't exist was engaged and shot and killed someone, it's your fault regardless of ignorance. I see no difference here.

Yea, the guy shouldn't have been going that fast. I don't think you'll find anyone, including me, who would argue differently. But she should have looked better and waited too.

[Volphin]

The bottom line is this:  The kid was riding stupid and it cost him his life.  He was passing in no passing lanes and was well beyond the limit.  30 over is just sheer madness on a road like that.  He clearly did not know much about physics.  I think the auto driver would have been exonerated with proper legal counsel.  

[peejman]

It would also be wrong. The guy on the motorcycle is not in control of the car. Maybe the guy on the bike could have done something if he had seen it coming, but in what insane bizarro world does that make it his fault? You do understand what fault means, right?

 

Nobody is perfect 100% of the time. Laying blame at the feet of the victim is just...I can't even find a word, really. The guy who didn't hit his brakes in time is the one and only person in this scenario who shoulders 100% of the blame.

 

 

Sure it's the car driver's fault for hitting him.  At the same time, your friend was in condition white while waiting for the light.  You can't ever be in condition white when riding a motorcycle, bad things happen too fast.  He didn't take simple and reasonable steps to save his own life, and that's his fault.  I refuse to accept that my continued existence is at the mercy strangers, most of whom can't walk and chew gum at the same time.  Making sure I stay alive isn't their responsibility, it's mine.  Everyone is trying to kill you all the time.  Let your guard down and they just might do it.  That's life in the saddle. 

 

 

 

I think even at 60MPH, hitting an object with significantly less "give" than the human body is going to be a losing situation. I know a guy who hit a mailbox doing 35MPH and died as a result. Stuff happens. Riding a motorcycle is a calculated risk. Those of us that have been riding our whole lives weigh that risk vs. the enjoyment we get out of it and have decided we would rather die on a motorcycle than live in a cage. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I hope when I go it's on a beautiful winding mountain rode going too fast and possibly missing a curve with nothing but clear blue skies between me and the river below. And I hope somebody is behind me with their GoPro rolling to get footage.

Again, I am in no way relieving the guy in the video in the OP of any of his responsibility. Not one bit. My ONLY problem is someone saying that the driver of the car shared none of that responsibility.

 

I can say from personal experience that it hurts more when you hit things at 60 mph than 35 mph.  But it's also true that people fall off the couch and die.  Given no other info, there's only speculation that he might have lived if going slower.  I never said the driver had no responsibility.  The guy was riding like an idiot and it cost him his life.   I guess I'm a callous bastard because I don't have much sympathy.  90% of what went wrong was his choice. 

[Good_Steward]

I guess it's OK to kill a motorcyclist because he was speeding. Drivers of cars bear no responsibility to look out for us because as we know, cage drivers never speed or change lanes without looking, or spend their time in their car with their cell phones plastered to their heads. Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, right?

In this particular situation, they were both driving / riding like assholes. 

I agree with you, though. We all have to be on the lookout for each other. Couldn't tell you the amount of times i've nearly been splattered all over the road because of some jerk playing on his/her phone while driving. 

[Good_Steward]

Sure it's the car driver's fault for hitting him.  At the same time, your friend was in condition white while waiting for the light.  You can't ever be in condition white when riding a motorcycle, bad things happen too fast.  He didn't take simple and reasonable steps to save his own life, and that's his fault.  I refuse to accept that my continued existence is at the mercy strangers, most of whom can't walk and chew gum at the same time.  Making sure I stay alive isn't their responsibility, it's mine.  Everyone is trying to kill you all the time.  Let your guard down and they just might do it.  That's life in the saddle. 

 

 

 

 

I can say from personal experience that it hurts more when you hit things at 60 mph than 35 mph.  But it's also true that people fall off the couch and die.  Given no other info, there's only speculation that he might have lived if going slower.  I never said the driver had no responsibility.  The guy was riding like an idiot and it cost him his life.   I guess I'm a callous bastard because I don't have much sympathy.  90% of what went wrong was his choice. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong: I read your posts as simply saying that if you are on a bike, you have to keep your head on a swivel and be very, very alert of your surroundings and ride very defensively. I agree with that. Bikes are a thing of beauty. I don't know what I would do without that outlet, but you have to be 100 times more cautious because you are far less noticeable and people, in general, drive like assholes. I would certainly agree with all of that. As far as rider / driver fault, this video is a clear indication of fault at the feet of both. It's just that one had overwhelmingly more severe repercussions for his lack of judgement. My $.02. 

Edited April 14, 2015 by Good_Steward

[suspiciousmind]

Motorcyclists have a hard enough time being seen and respected on the road. Why would a biker make it worse for themselves by not just speeding but going way over the limit? I see it all the time. It's stupid. It gets people killed, and it's primarily the fault of the rider.

[peejman]

Correct me if I am wrong: I read your posts as simply saying that if you are on a bike, you have to keep your head on a swivel and be very, very alert of your surroundings and ride very defensively. I agree with that. Bikes are a thing of beauty. I don't know what I would do without that outlet, but you have to be 100 times more cautious because you are far less noticeable and people, in general, drive like assholes. I would certainly agree with all of that. As far as rider / driver fault, this video is a clear indication of fault at the feet of both. It's just that one had overwhelmingly more severe repercussions for his lack of judgement. My $.02. 

 

 

Sounds good to me.