Is this scope badly damaged?

[Symbolic]

I bought a scope in the range of $170 back in 2011 and used it on my 308 rifle exclusively ever since. It was variable power, and while shooting with it last week I noticed that for the first time, the reticule rotated when I changed magnification. The scope's manufacturer offers a limited lifetime warranty so I sent them this scope to repair/replace. Today I received an email from them stating that they cannot repair/replace my scope because it is "badly damaged," "far worse than what the photo shows." Please take a look at this photo and tell me if this scope truly is badly damaged.

 

 

I never had a problem with this scope before, or any of my other scopes before either. I did not have or use a torque wrench to install the rings, but this scope has never appeared damaged to me and has always worked fine up until last week.

 

So I am asking your thoughts now on this. Is this scope badly damaged? Is the company being honest? What would you do in this situation? They offered me three options:

1. We can take your returned scope on a trade-in and get you back into the same scope (brand new) for only $120..
2. We can take your returned scope on a trade-in for a different model of your choosing, just let us know which model and we can quote you a reduced price..
3. We can send your scope back to you..

 

Thanks in advance

[DaveTN]

Well they aren’t really giving you anything for your scope, so all three options are about the same; no help from them.

We can’t tell much from the pics.

Who is it?

[Raoul]

Sounds like the problem is internal. The reticule is no longer stable.

[Oh Shoot]

Well you say they're saying it's damaged "far worse than what the photo shows", so I guess the photo isn't relevant.

 

- OS

[Pete123]

"Badly damaged"  sounds like the scope wasn't made to last and just broke - unrelated to anything you did.

[peejman]

I'd ask for more detail regarding the exact nature and extent of the damage. I'd also ask for a suspected cause and how to avoid future issues.

[Garufa]

What I see in the photo is where the rings were.  Reticule is in the middle.

[Trekbike]

So what does their limited lifetime warranty cover? Most say it's for materials and workmanship but not misuse/abuse. So I assume they are saying it's abuse since they don't seem to be honoring the warranty.

[deafdogdief]

Curious to see how this shakes out. Also curious to know what brand to sidestep.

[Jonnin]

120 for a retail 170 is dishonest IMHO.   They probably sell it for that (or less, and either way at a profit) to the store you bought it from, and there is NO discount even being offered there!

 

I see no signs of abuse.

 

Without more info, its hard to say.   If you actually dented the body with your scope rings, then the fault is yours and you take what they offered.   If the issue is something else (gas leaked out or the internals broke)  its on them.  Oh, its ALSO on you if its a .22 LR rated scope on a 308 ... broken by recoil over time ... but if its advertised for big rifles, its on them again... depends.  Some scopes do say they are for .22s for a reason.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Jonnin

[deafdogdief]

Looking at it again, it looks like Leupold. If they told you that, I think you need to place a call and talk to someone in authority so they can make this right. Have them take pictures and send to you in case it was damaged in shipping or in while in their current possession.

[Symbolic]

The manufacturer is Mueller and the scope is the 8.5-25x44AO Tactical. Nothing on their website says this scope is not intended for 308. I do not think the body of the scope was damaged when I sent it in, or ever, so I am annoyed. They claim I damaged this scope when I believe I did not.

 

On Mueller's warranty page it says, "If at any time during the warranty period a Mueller scope is found to have a defect in material or workmanship, Mueller will, at our discretion, repair or replace it free of charge. The warranty is void if damage results from unauthorized repair, alteration, abuse or misuse."

 

Here is their email. I misquoted them when I said "badly damaged." They stated "badly dented" but I still disagree.

[DaveTN]

I would call and talk with customer support. Just because you have nothing to lose.

However,From the Mueller website:
 

http://muelleroptics.com/faq-frequently-asked-questions
Can I mount the scope myself?

The most common issue we see here is the way a scope was mounted and the damage caused by improper installation. We understand scopes leave witness marks, but by no means should a mounting ring leave indentations or clamping marks on the main tube of the scope. For this reason we always recommend the utmost care when mounting a riflescope, including following the ring manufacture torque specifications, making sure the rings are aligned and the scope will seat properly in the rings before they are tightened. Rings may also require lapping to ensure proper alignment, ring to scope contact and to remove any imperfections in the rings that may cause damage to the scopes tube. Please keep in mind that tube damage of any kind “voids” the Mueller Warranty. It is clearly noted in the directions, which come with every Mueller scope, “Your scope is not covered by the warranty if damage results from improper installation“. Mueller Optics LLC will not be held responsible for ring manufacture defects, which cause damage to a Mueller Rifle Scope.

[Symbolic]

I saw that FAQ also. In this case, I think they are claiming witness marks are clamping marks because there were no indentations in the body of the scope. Perhaps Mueller should define witness marks and clamping marks in their FAQ section to mitigate this issue. I ran my finger over those marks when I was packing it up to wipe off the moisture left by the rings and there was no discernible difference in surface consistency. Looking back, I wish I had taken pictures of it myself before sending it off.

 

I did a quick Google search last night on this issue, and I found a couple different forum posts which stated that if scopes are correctly installed there should be no marks whatsoever. If that is the case, then I am in fact guilty and will drop this issue. What do yall think?

[EssOne]

The sad truth is that scopes shoot loose internally and there will be no evidence of hard use externally when it happens. Most of these cases involve the reticle and its various mechanisms. I have had a 2x7 Leupold, a 4x Bushnell, and a 2x7 Redfield shoot loose on common 7x57 and otsix rifles. The giveaway is when your reticle shows visible damage, shifts around visibly, or your zero begins shifting about a foot after each shot. Ordinarily the rule of thumb is not to mount the scope to where the rings are within 1/8" of the turret or the eyepiece or bell, which doesn't seem to be the case here. I'd give them a call like DaveTN suggests.

[gregintenn]

Looking at it again, it looks like Leupold. If they told you that, I think you need to place a call and talk to someone in authority so they can make this right. Have them take pictures and send to you in case it was damaged in shipping or in while in their current possession.

Definitely not a Leupold. I've never heard of them not honoring their warranty.

[Symbolic]

What I see in the photo is where the rings were.  Reticule is in the middle.

 

The reticule rotates now as the magnification knob is rotated. Could it have become loose and slid towards the back of the scope then?

 

In any case, I will contact Mueller customer support on Monday and let you all know the details.

[deafdogdief]

Definitely not a Leupold. I've never heard of them not honoring their warranty.

I would have been very surprised as well.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I NEVER use the long end of an allen wrench tighten a scope down. I used the long end once and it left marks on the tube so I started using the short arm on the wrench since then and I have yet to have a scope shoot loose or move. Those are not creases and should not affect the warranty.

 

I returned a scope to Mueller when the objective ring would shift the zero and they replaced it no questions asked.

[Alleycat72]

Always use a torque wrench.

[Tncobra]

I had a tasco varmint scope do the same thing. I called "bushnell" and they emailed me a label, I got a new scope three weeks later.

Tasco/ bushnells website says you eat shipping but I did not.

The scope had never been mounted.

[Symbolic]

I called customer support and they told me to call back tomorrow and talk to tech support before 3pm.

[Symbolic]

Mueller tech support must not exist because they were not working again today. Instead the lady I talked to previously took their place and, needless to say, things did not go as I hoped. She was stalwart that the scope was damaged beyond repair and that $120 for a new scope was a good deal. I still disagree.

 

My opinion of Mueller Optics now is very low and I cannot honestly recommend them or their products to anyone. I hope this helps someone down the road when deciding on budget scopes.

[TrickyNicky]

Helps me plenty. I'll be sticking with Bushnell and may send a bit of money BSAs way since I've liked what I've seen from them at a cheep price point. I'll be sure to steer clear of Mueller if this is their idea of backing up a product.