White Officer shoots Black man in SC.

[bersaguy]

Shot during a traffic stop. It didn't take the Police Chief long to charge the officer with murder. I want to know why a person black or white runs from a simple traffic stop unless they are guilty of something else. But the Policeman shot him several times in the back.

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/sc-cop-shooting-walter-scott-family-speaks-out-122043176.html

Edited April 8, 2015 by bersaguy

[Will]

White/Black don't matter,what it will come down to is suspect was in possession of a Taser by dragging it with him as he ran and could of used it at some

point to get gun off officer. I am not saying it was right but rule of thumb if suspect has weapon they get shot. The murder charge will be dropped and riots 

will start. 

[Hozzie]

The officer deserves to be arrested for murder. A taser is not a life threatening device and he was clearly not in immediate danger. No excuses on this one. Just look t the non chalance in which he walked up to the guy afterwards like this was some normal event. Edited April 8, 2015 by Hozzie

[bersaguy]

White/Black don't matter,what it will come down to is suspect was in possession of a Taser by dragging it with him as he ran and could of used it at some

point to get gun off officer. I am not saying it was right but rule of thumb if suspect has weapon they get shot. The murder charge will be dropped and riots 

will start. 

Well, I don't know what part of the Video you saw the Black man pull a taser out and attempt to use it on the officer. The officer said the man tried to take his away from him and that was what was on the ground. What was the reason for the officer to shoot the man in the back several times s still unclear. Why did the officer pick up his taser or what ever that was laying in front of him and carry it over and throw it beside the dead man? Lets face reality folks. If anyone of us with legal handgun carry permits gets into a confrontation with another armed criminal and the criminal makes a break and chooses to run away, the immediate to you is over. If we shoot anyone in the back we will be charged with murder and we will go to prison. This officer in this case has no more legal authority to shoot this man in the back than anyone with an HCP does on this site or anywhere else. I agree with Hozzie and he should be charged with Murder1......................JMO

Edited April 8, 2015 by bersaguy

[Caster]

They can charge him with murder one and give him the death penalty and the ghetto trash will still likely riot.  

[sschrick]

I am still trying to figure out how the person taking the video, even after the shooting, seemed to be able to get relatively close to the two officers.  Why did the officers not notice the person taking the video and immediately try to secure them.  In the video it seems the officers don't even notice the person taking the video.  Seemed weird to me the first time  I watched it.  But, agree, running away, multiple shots in the back, not good.

[bersaguy]

I'm sure there may be some protests but they will be fairly calm as long as Al and Jesse don't show up and :stir:  They have charged the officer for murder 1 by the Mayor of the city which I feel was the right decision unless something else changes...................jmho

[atlas3025]

I bet the "witness" was hiding the fact they were recording for a while, but at some point it had to be obvious.  That is really weird that the officers didn't even acknowledge the person recording them.  I am sure tunnel vision an all that.

 

I think more will come out on this, but based on the video alone, I think the officer has to be charged.

[EssOne]

......................................  This officer in this case has no more legal authority to shoot this man in the back than anyone with an HCP does on this site or anywhere else. I agree with Hozzie and he should be charged with Murder1......................JMO

This may or may not be correct, bersaguy. There are differences between a citizen's authority and an officer's authority.  In many states an LEO may use deadly force on a fleeing felon to stop him. In recent years these states have clarified this to mean violent felonies only, and it goes back to the old west days when a felon was always a radically dangerous person you didn't want escaping. But it doesn't end there. You have departmental policies coming to bear on the subject as well.

 

 In my department the law said you could use deadly force on a fleeing felon who had committed a violent felony, period. But our department's shooting policy, (which is binding on all officers in the department with the force of law) clearly stated that the use of deadly force in these circumstances was only authorized when no other means of apprehension was possible or when all possible alternatives had failed. Most departments I worked around added similar limitations on the use of deadly force against fleeing felons above and beyond these legal requirements.

 

Now, I have no idea if South Carolina has such a statute, and we need to give ourselves a little wiggle room on this count until this all shakes out in coming days. But I would think that if the Chief of Police and Mayor have disavowed the officer's actions, you can bet the City Attorney and/or the District Attorney has reviewed the evidence too and concurs with them. I also suspect that the Governor and State Attorney General have weighed in too.  So I really doubt that any fleeing felon statute is in play. (I don't see a felony on the part of the citizen so far, but like I said, I don't know South Carolina law. So we'll have to wait and see. I'm a little uncomfortable right now because I can't find out specific details on what transpired between the traffic stop and the shooting.)

 

After a shooting death most states require some sort of hearing by a Coroner's Jury, Grand Jury, or a Preliminary Hearing in Court in these cases and I haven't seen any indication that one has been held yet. When one of these is held, we'll pretty well know what happened. 

 

Barring any unusual legalities or mitigating circumstances that may still come to bear in the officer's favor, everything I know about the case so far says he is probably in worse than serious trouble.

 

My LE experience was not in Tennessee, just to make that clear.

Edited April 8, 2015 by EssOne

[suspiciousmind]

From what is visible, they were right charging this cop with murder. That's a pretty awful sight.

[Jonnin]

murder, from what I see.  

 

On that note, I am not stopping for unmarked cars with ununiformed individuals.  They can chase me at their own peril.

[EssOne]

murder, from what I see.  

 

On that note, I am not stopping for unmarked cars with ununiformed individuals.  They can chase me at their own peril.

The best way to see if it's a real cop is to Dial 911 and tell the dispatcher an unmarked car purporting to be a police car is attempting to stop you and you want verification that it's a real cop. The dispatch center will get your license number and location, then contact all units on the air and ask if any of them are trying to stop you. Go from there.

[peejman]

The best way to see if it's a real cop is to Dial 911 and tell the dispatcher an unmarked car purporting to be a police car is attempting to stop you and you want verification that it's a real cop. The dispatch center will get your license number and location, then contact all units on the air and ask if any of them are trying to stop you. Go from there.

 

 

Yep.  I've told my wife this repeatedly.   Don't stop unless you're sure.  I'd much rather deal with an annoyed cop than the alternative. 

 

 

As for the subject cop... He's in for a world of hurt. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by peejman

[300winmag]

Was there a confrontation before the video started?  If there was some sort of fighting going on, then that may have led to what was on the video.  Did the guy run without fighting the LEO?  Did the guy commit a felony before the incident?  Or did the guy commit a violent felony before the incident? 

 

We'll have to see the whole story.

[EssOne]

Was there a confrontation before the video started?  If there was some sort of fighting going on, then that may have led to what was on the video.  Did the guy run without fighting the LEO?  Did the guy commit a felony before the incident?  Or did the guy commit a violent felony before the incident? 

 

We'll have to see the whole story.

I agree. That's why I'm hedging my bet a little bit until a hearing is held.  They don't call it the "drive-by media" for nothing.

[bersaguy]

Oh, I have no doubt there is a very deep investigation into this case. There may be a lot more to come out before it's over. My main question is why would a man run from a police officer for a regular traffic violation unless that person had a lot more to hide than a tail light being out. I mean it might be evident that the office may have been profiling because pulling a person over for a tail light out is not a violation 95% of police officers would take the time to do a traffic stop. I hope it all is exposed and we all hear the true reason for this shooting................jmho

[bersaguy]

This may or may not be correct, bersaguy. There are differences between a citizen's authority and an officer's authority.  In many states an LEO may use deadly force on a fleeing felon to stop him. In recent years these states have clarified this to mean violent felonies only, and it goes back to the old west days when a felon was always a radically dangerous person you didn't want escaping. But it doesn't end there. You have departmental policies coming to bear on the subject as well.

 

 In my department the law said you could use deadly force on a fleeing felon who had committed a violent felony, period. But our department's shooting policy, (which is binding on all officers in the department with the force of law) clearly stated that the use of deadly force in these circumstances was only authorized when no other means of apprehension was possible or when all possible alternatives had failed. Most departments I worked around added similar limitations on the use of deadly force against fleeing felons above and beyond these legal requirements.

 

Now, I have no idea if South Carolina has such a statute, and we need to give ourselves a little wiggle room on this count until this all shakes out in coming days. But I would think that if the Chief of Police and Mayor have disavowed the officer's actions, you can bet the City Attorney and/or the District Attorney has reviewed the evidence too and concurs with them. I also suspect that the Governor and State Attorney General have weighed in too.  So I really doubt that any fleeing felon statute is in play. (I don't see a felony on the part of the citizen so far, but like I said, I don't know South Carolina law. So we'll have to wait and see. I'm a little uncomfortable right now because I can't find out specific details on what transpired between the traffic stop and the shooting.)

 

After a shooting death most states require some sort of hearing by a Coroner's Jury, Grand Jury, or a Preliminary Hearing in Court in these cases and I haven't seen any indication that one has been held yet. When one of these is held, we'll pretty well know what happened. 

 

Barring any unusual legalities or mitigating circumstances that may still come to bear in the officer's favor, everything I know about the case so far says he is probably in worse than serious trouble.

 

My LE experience was not in Tennessee, just to make that clear.

I don't have any issues at all with a Police Officer shooting at a fleeing dangerous felon which may be what will come out on this case. But unless a police officer sees a felon committing the crime and the felon flees or there is a bulletin out for this dangerous felon there is no way a police officer can remember the names and faces of every dangerous felon in their area. so when do you shoot and when do you hold your fire. that is a very fine line our police officers walk every day............jmho

[EssOne]

I don't have any issues at all with a Police Officer shooting at a fleeing dangerous felon which may be what will come out on this case. But unless a police officer sees a felon committing the crime and the felon flees or there is a bulletin out for this dangerous felon there is no way a police officer can remember the names and faces of every dangerous felon in their area. so when do you shoot and when do you hold your fire. that is a very fine line our police officers walk every day............jmho

I agree, and again, the crux of the entire thing hasn't been released yet. Additional information not yet made public could really put a different light on all of this, Like I told 300winmag, I'm still hedging my bets a little bit until a hearing is held. Right now it looks mighty bad for the officer, but we don't yet know the whole story.

Edited April 8, 2015 by EssOne

[DaveTN]

From the stories I read the man was stopped for a taillight out and ran because he had a warrant for failure to pay child support. We don’t see in the video what happened during the initial confrontation, but we see he is no longer a threat and pretty far away when he is shot.

It appears pretty clear to me that the Officer picked something up and then threw it down beside the suspect. It wouldn’t matter if he took the cops taser; he was too far away to use it. If the cop shot him when he was taking it; it would be a different story.

The cop obviously has problems; he was fired and arrested for murder in three days. It won’t matter what that the cop thought (same as it doesn’t matter what we think in a shooting), it will boil down to what a jury believes they would have felt in the same situation when they have all the facts that are available.

[EssOne]

I agree, DaveTN. The final judgment will revolve around what the officer reasonably believed at the time he fired the shots, the "reasonably" part being what juries get paid to rule on.

Edited April 8, 2015 by EssOne

[Pete123]

After watching the video closely, I can't see how the officer could reasonably fear for his life when the first shot was fired.

 

With the information currently available the shooting doesn't look justified.  It also looks like the officer may have used the "formula for acquittal" to frame the suspect.

• Claim he was attacked 
• In fear of his life 
• Plant a weapon to frame the suspect  (You can't see exactly what the officer picked up and dropped next the the suspect, which I acknowledge.  Though, what could he possibly have needed to pick up and drop next to the suspect.)

Law enforcement leadership is failing both great officers and our society in my view.  They aren't sufficiently screening new hires to ensure abusers aren't hired.  Abusers, who are cowards at heart, are strongly attracted to jobs where they have power over others.  They are also failing to hold abusers accountable for illegal and unacceptable behavior. 

 

The majority of officers, who have a very difficult job and try hard to do the right thing, are being painted by the negative brush - they deserve better.

[FUJIMO]

regardless of what comes out now he's screwed. No way he will get away without a conviction.

[bersaguy]

Well, evidently the man was shot because they had a warrant on him for back Child Support and didn't want to go back to jail. There is a lot more information in link below. Not a felon at all.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/08/us/south-carolina-cop-shoots-black-man-timeline/

[Patton]

I can't see the justification in this case.

[TN-popo]

Just as a point of reference...

 

TN vs Garner is the caselaw that governs LEOs across the country on the shooting of fleeing violent felons or dangerous people.

Generally, LEOs can shoot fleeing dangerous felons running away from them IF they can articulate that the suspect is a danger to the public.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2015 by TN-popo