700 SPS and Match Grade Ammo

[CatsEye]

I'm not sure whether this is a thread about the rifle or factor Match grade ammo. I guess it’s actually a little of both. I grew up hunting but never really shot much “precision” rifle. I decided that I wanted to do some of it simply for fun. I didn’t want to spend a lot up front but still have something to get me started. I shoot a lot of pistol but bench rest shooting is new to me. I don’t claim to be a great shot so take that into account. All rifles shoot differently so I have no idea if the results will relate to any other rifles.

I found a new Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308 a few months ago on sale for $500. This is the heavy 26” barrel version with 1:12 twist. I didn’t like the stock but decided I could change it if needed. I mounted a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 scope on it. I reload for pistol but not yet for rifle. I plan to get into this part later this year or early next and I know that will help. I decided I would try different “Match” grade ammo on the market to see what shot well in my gun while I was learning to be a better shooter and see if I really enjoyed it enough to move forward. I got some cheap PMC Bronze 147gr. ammo for barrel break in and to just get some rounds through it and get the feel of the rifle. After 40 rounds of PMC it was clear either the ammo sucks or my rifle really hates it with average groups of almost 5 moa. I tried shooting the rifle in the original configuration but was unable to get any of the Match ammo to shoot less than 1.5 moa. I didn’t collect any real data during this time so can’t show the comparison. All I can say is I was feeling pretty disappointed at this point. The original stock had a lot of flex so I decided to try to improve it. I bedded it and filled the forearm with resin so it could be free floated. This helped quite a bit as you can see below. Even though it was shooting better I just really wasn’t comfortable with the feel of the stock. I decided to use my birthday discount at Midway to order a Bell and Carlson Medalist M40 stock. I put it on and immediately loved the improved feel. Ok, enough of the rifle stuff, on to the ammo.

I purchased a box of Match grade ammo from each of these manufactures: Winchester, Federal, Norma, Hornady and two from HSM their AMAX and regular match all in 168 gr. For the second round of testing (B&C Stock) I added some cheap Monarch soft point that I already had. I had also read good things about Eagle Eye Precision so got a box if their 175 gr. to try. I didn’t know how it would shoot with my twist rate but thought I would give it a try. Here are the results from the bedded and free floated original stock and the B&C stock. All shots taken at 100 yards and results in inches.
(Edit) when I wrote this I forgot about the fact that I zeroed with the Eagle Eye ammo. The last group I shot with it was actually two groups with one click left difference. Would have tightened a little otherwise.

Original B&C
Winchester 1.375 .938
Three shots with the B&C were .563 with the 4^th extending the group to .938.
Federal GMM .875 .500
HSM AMAX .938 1.125
Four shots with B&C were .875 with the 5^th extending the group to 1.125.
HSM Match .563 This ammo shot so well with original stock I shot it all up. Opps.
Norma Match 1.00 .500
Hornady Match 1.25 .687
Eagle Eye (3 shot) n/a .415
Eagle Eye (6 shot) n/a .875 Can’t claim I can do better than this over 6 shots.
Monarch n/a 3.575
PMC Bronze 4.700 2.560

Overall I think it was evident the new stock helped. I observed good results with all of the Match ammo, it definitely is a great improvement over the cheap stuff. All of the Match ammo shot sub MOA with the Federal and Norma putting up nice groups. The best three shot group came from the Eagle Eye coming in at .415. I have no idea if this test gives anyone other than me any useful information but it was nice to find out what my rifle likes. It was also a big relief to see me and the rifle shooting a half MOA or better with factory ammo. Sorry for the different style targets I wasn't really planning to document it.







Edited April 6, 2015 by CatsEye

[Ropin4gold]

Have you done any trigger work? I have the same gun in 223 in the same stock. Some trigger work may help you. With hand loads mine will consistently shoot sub 1/2 moa.

[CatsEye]

Still has the stock x-mark trigger adjusted down. It is a little heavy but breaks fairly crisp. A better trigger would help. Edited April 6, 2015 by CatsEye

[shooterfpga]

Two factory loads that worked much better than fgmm for me was hsm and adi loaded australian outback. Bugholes vs bigger bugholes. Both well under submoa but the later seemed to hold on average 1/4moa. Im now getting into reloading though.

[Handsome Rob]

I'm no expert (I've only met a couple) but once you start reloading you may want to look at lighter bullets. 1:12 is a wee bit slow a twist for the longer 168gn boat tails. Try a handful of 110gn Sierra Varmints pushed to about 3100-3200fps & I think you'll be in for a happy surprise!
That said, that's some fine shooting for factory ammo.

[Tempest455]

I would try again at a longer range (if possible) and see what results you get.

[CatsEye]

I think the 168s will be ok but I do plan to try some 155s when I get to that point. I was surprised the 175s shot the best groups. I definitely want to stretch the distance to see how the results hold up.

[atlas3025]

I was surprised the 175s shot the best groups. I definitely want to stretch the distance to see how the results hold up.

 

I have found that the 175 Federal GMM factory loads group tighter than the 168's in my guns.

[shooterfpga]

I have found that the 175 Federal GMM factory loads group tighter than the 168's in my guns.

Same here. But i have a shorter throat and 1/10 twist.

[leroy]

I've never seen a good 308 that wouldnt shoot in the range ya are seein; and a varmiter barrel Remington 700 is a good one... As others have opined, if ya stretch it out a bit to about 300 or so yards ya may be pleasantly surprized... Handloading will help ya dial it in further; as will bedding the action and seeing to it that the barrel is free floated...

 

Have fun...

leroy

[CatsEye]

The B&C stock has the aluminum bed but I have thought about skim bedding it. It is nicely free floated. It was fun to shoot a couple sub .5 moa groups.

[sigrug17]

I got the Rem 700 SPS with the 20" barrel and 1:10 twist.... .5 & some .4" groups @ 100.  with Federal GMM 175gr.  So, my SPS likes 175's better than 168.  I am reloading with similar results. 

[leroy]

The B&C stock has the aluminum bed but I have thought about skim bedding it. It is nicely free floated. It was fun to shoot a couple sub .5 moa groups.

 

They are a great rifle, and the B & C stock just makes it better...

 

leroy

[Tempest455]

175's always shot better than 168 SMK's in my .308. Plus if you want to shoot long range out to 1,000 you can, where 168's are a problem.

 

The 175's should be fine w/ a 1-12 twist. We just got done shooting a 185 in a 1-12 twist LR and it was very stable.

[RED333]

Some very important date missing, Chronograph data!

FPS, max deviation, and the like are needed to find the best ammo for you and your rifle.

Also more trigger time is needed as well, the reason I dont shoot long range.

I do not have a chronograph ether, I have to get one.

[Lowpower]

Imho opinion each rifle is different and likes a particular bullet. My 40X .308 has a 1-11 3/4 twist and loves 175 gr Berger Match Target stuffed into the lands. It will shoot 175 gr Sierra HPBT's but likes a .7k jump. It also opens up just a hair over the Bergers. The 40X does not like 180's on up. You need to find what your rifles likes and stick with it. My powder charge is Varget at 43.1 gr. One last thing is rifles have definite likes/dislikes on primers. Mine loves Win LR primers. Anything else and the group opens up again. My brass is Lapua. Chronys at 2515 fps.

 

All that being said I'm very anal about my reloading for target shooting;

 

I trim each case to length and uniform the case neck thickness to .12k.

I remove that small piece of brass tab left from punching out the primer hole.

I measure the weight and volume of the cases and discard those that are out of my personal limits.  

I measure the ogive of the bullet to bullet base and discard those which are out my limits. 

I weigh each and every bullet and discard those that are out of my limits.

I checked and adjust the runout of each loaded bullet. 

 

If I take out the anal work the gun shoots 1/2 MOA and it's not one single thing that continues to close the group but imho it's cumulative.

I get one hole groups at 100 yds by doing all the above. 

 

About the rifle. 

 

The 40X is an original free floated target bull barrel. I don't have my book out so I can't provide a shot count right now. Then again I'm the only one that cares since I'm not selling it. :D

The trigger is set to 22 oz. since I'm banging around all over the place shooting F-Class.

I use the original 40X wood stock with an original 1st Gen Sinclair front bipod.

 

Edited to add....

 

Shooting is the other half of the accuracy equation. I spent a years qualifying new folks from 100-300-600 yds. 

If you take out the come up knowledge and the rest and let's say the rifle scope/sights are set to 200 then 300 then 600 yds 

then it's great to know exactly where your gun is shooting when you put the crosshairs on the target. Unfortunately it doesn't quite work that way.

Reason being most new shooters haven't quite mastered the art of shooting. Yes, they can look over the sights and pull the trigger and all that good stuff but what's missing is cheek weld, pressure on the stock breath control, finger control, staying in the rifle through the shot. In other words lots of things. 

 

A friend asked me to come out and help him sight in a Rem 700 in .308 for hunting season. We set up at 100 yds and I dialed it in a a couple of shoots. then shot a 3 shot group at 1/2 MOA. I didn't shoot any more rounds since it was his ammo and I figured he should shoot it. He climbing into the gun and preceded to shoot a horizontal group in the neighborhood of 1.5 MOA. He was pushing a lot of shots left. I told him he needed to practice his shooting skills as the rifle will do its job. He said it was good enough since he was only deer hunting. 

 

Back to those qualifying from 100 - 300 -600 yds and beyond.... we normally set the bar at mins of 3 MOA. 

Very easy to keep rounds inside 3 inches at 100 yds.

Same for 200 yds at 6 inches as unless the winds are really blowing you won't see much bullet push.

300 yds is a different story as most first time shooters have a tendency to shoot around 2 MOA at that distance. 6 inches isn't too bad when the bar is still 9 at 300. The reason it opens up so much is now they really need to begin concentrating on their shooting skills. If they qualify at 300 yds they now have to stay at 300yd for a month (sometimes longer) as they get used to that distance and learn to close their groups up. 

Once they can they'd call and ask to move up to 600 yds. Again 3 MOA for 600yd which they usually make. From that point on they can work on closing their groups down and enjoy the sport of mid range shooting. 

 

Point of the story. get your rifle shooting from POA to the exact same POI. If you do and learn to shoot then life gets easy because you know, without a doubt, the bullet can be expected to go exactly where you had the cross hairs when you broke the shot and if it does't something acted upon the bullets flight from some outside force. Like wind or shadows on the target, etc. That is where all of this truly becomes FUN!

 

If you really want to look at outside effects find a friend with an Anschutz that shoots lights out. Set up a BR target at 50 yds. You can even shoot off a bench. Watch how the wind effects the bullets flight. Those lil bullets moving, subsonic, get pushed all over the place.  If it's not steady state wind you will find you might be holding on the 9 ring and can watch the bullet go way to the other side and hit the 9 ring there. With a 36X scope you can watch the bullet go down range and hit the target if you stay in the gun. It's a real eye opener as it mimics things that are happening with larger bullets at great distances. Shoot that lil .22 at 100 and see what happens. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Lowpower

[Tempest455]

Indeed on the above.

 

He was talking about box ammo so I did not go there. I have two rifles both in .308 that like an entirely different load because of throat and chamber with hand loads.

 

Hand loads are really the only way to go. However, if you don't and have to use box ammo, Black Hills is as good as it gets. But it still has an ES of 30 or so.

[Ray Z]

I've had that same rifle for 7-8 years. 168gr Sierra BT match using Varget drives tacks at 100 yd.

[CatsEye]

I've gotten a little more trigger time with the rifle and have settled on the factory ammo I will be using for now.  The rifle has about 100 rounds through it and has really settled in.  I shot these groups at the range today off my range bag and a rear bag.  Started from 100 yards and the Federal Gold Medal Match was spot on.  Decided to move out to 200 yards and duplicated the group.  To say the least I am thrilled with how everything is shooting. 

 

[atlas3025]

Very nice!  Was that 168 grain?

[CatsEye]

Yes they are the 168s.

[Ropin4gold]

Nice shooting. All of the fgmm I have shot has been really consistent.

[CatsEye]

^{It's been a while but I finally got the chance recently to stretch the legs on this thing a little.  I'm still shooting mostly FGMM 168's for now because the gun loves them.  I was shooting from my bipod off a bench.  I checked zero then checked come up on a 300 yard plate to confirm my ballistics table. Until this day I had never shot beyond 200 yards so was excited to give it a go on the 500 yard steel.  I dialed 11.25 moa up and 1.5 right for wind.  The first shot hit upper right on the 6" plate.  Dialed back down 1 click and left 2 clicks and got the next two hits solid.  At this point I'm feeling a little froggy so decided to take a shot at the 2" plate just see what happens.  Smacked that little sucker on the second shot.  Thrilling feeling to say the least to actually hit while shooting for the first time at this range.  I plan to eventually try 1000 so shot some FGMM 175's too and got results just as good with them.  Loving the rifle while learning to shoot it.}