Prosecution for HCP holder carrying in banned location?

[JayC]

Happy to help...  Anti-gunners try and use stats against us...  we need to use their own arguments again them...  They argue that only police officers have the added training to carry firearms, you show them that citizens are much better...

 

They complain about the few permit carries commuting crimes...  they point of the fact that more officers have their POST certifications revoked for wrong doing every year than HCP permit holders do...  and there are more than 10x as many permit holders in TN  ;)

 

Thanks, JayC- I appreciate you taking the time to put that post together.

It gives me some new info to research in my down time. I love statistics and it's great to have this info when discussing why I carry with those who don't understand why I take my personal protection so personally.

[Guest mike987]

The topic about what happens in school property is very confusing and I would highly appreciate some insight. My understanding is that a permit holder can leave their gun in the car (while parked at a school) provided is not an student. However even with a permit you are not allowed to "handle" it. Here is the problem: You arrive at a school, park the car, and since you are not allowed to take your weapon with you, you must secure it the car; but you are not allowed to handle it. So if you work in campus, you must secure it before you get there, which translates into securing it when you leave home. So, what is the point of having a permit if you work in campus? Even if they fixed  the law to allow non student permit holders to leave them in the car at school property, the law still makes no sense.  Sure you can make a stop before getting to work in order to secure it but who is really going to do that every day? 

[peejman]

The topic about what happens in school property is very confusing and I would highly appreciate some insight. My understanding is that a permit holder can leave their gun in the car (while parked at a school) provided is not an student. However even with a permit you are not allowed to "handle" it. Here is the problem: You arrive at a school, park the car, and since you are not allowed to take your weapon with you, you must secure it the car; but you are not allowed to handle it. So if you work in campus, you must secure it before you get there, which translates into securing it when you leave home. So, what is the point of having a permit if you work in campus? Even if they fixed  the law to allow non student permit holders to leave them in the car at school property, the law still makes no sense.  Sure you can make a stop before getting to work in order to secure it but who is really going to do that every day? 

 

 

You expected the law to make sense?  :rofl:    

 

 

You are allowed to have on your person while in the car on school property.  I highly doubt you'd get any flack for transferring the gun from "on your person" to "secured" (and vice versa) while sitting in your car in the parking lot as long as you weren't terribly obvious about it.  One could also argue the semantics regarding the difference between "temporarily stopped" and "parked".  If that really bothers you, do the transfer across the street, then go park. 

[300winmag]

(d) A handgun carry permit holder transporting, storing or both transporting and storing a firearm or firearm ammunition in accordance with this section does not violate this section if the firearm or firearm ammunition is observed by another person or security device during the ordinary course of the handgun carry permit holder securing the firearm or firearm ammunition from observation in or on a motor vehicle.

 

 

You need to look at TCA 39-17-1313. 

 

 

This is the safe commute law.

 

You can handle the handgun to secure it in your vehicle when on school property as long as you have a handgun carry permit.  A school can still fire or expel you but you can't face criminal charges for storing a handgun in your vehicle.

Edited April 29, 2015 by 300winmag

[monkeylizard]

 

You can handle the handgun to secure it in your vehicle when on school property as long as you have a handgun carry permit.  A school can still fire or expel you but you can't face criminal charges for storing a handgun in your vehicle.

 

And based on the other new gun law that snuck in this year, that would create grounds for challenging the termination as wrongful. You'd still have to bring the lawsuit and pay a lawyer, but you'd now have a law on your side.

[Guest mike987]

Thank you all for the insight. Because of it I found out that if they find a weapon in my car, then they will ask me to remove it from campus immediatly and they could also fire me. Same if I refuse to allow the search. So what does the new law that was passed this year say?

[DaveTN]

Thank you all for the insight. Because of it I found out that if they find a weapon in my car, then they will ask me to remove it from campus immediatly and they could also fire me. Same if I refuse to allow the search. So what does the new law that was passed this year say?

Tennessee is an “employment at will” state. If you have an employment contract you are bound by the terms of that contract. If you don’t; you are bound by whatever rules your employer puts in place. What does your employer say about you transferring your weapon to secure it in your vehicle? Because their opinion is the only one that matters.

If the state of Tennessee wants to tell your employer you have a right to carry a gun; then the state would have to recognize that you have a right to carry a gun. That is not the case; it is a crime to carry a gun in this state.

Please don’t take my comments as supporting what they are doing. I have a carry permit but it really upsets me that the state would think they have the authority to force this on employers just because our “special group” paid them money while others did not. That’s a thug government.

[peejman]

Thank you all for the insight. Because of it I found out that if they find a weapon in my car, then they will ask me to remove it from campus immediatly and they could also fire me. Same if I refuse to allow the search. So what does the new law that was passed this year say?

 

 

The new law states you can sue your former employer for false termination, as you were engaging in an activity that's otherwise legal.  Note that it only says you can sue, it doesn't say you'll win. 

[JayC]

Well technically, it's no longer a crime for you to carry a firearm in your vehicle, permit or not.  It's not a defense to 39-17-1307 but an exception...  

 

(Dave I know you're aware of the following, but just to give background to others reading this reply) Truth be told technically carrying a loaded firearm on your property you're committing a crime, just a crime you have an automatic defense to, and therefore nobody is ever arrested for...  The Vehicle carry exception is different, since it is an exception to the law, you aren't breaking the law when carrying in your vehicle.

 

Now, I agree, as much as the legislature (and more importantly the TFA) want to protect HCP holders as some special 'protected' class, it's just not possible...  and more importantly, your employer has no obligation not to violate your natural rights, if you say something in the press even off the job they disagree with, they have every right to terminate your employment. 

 

Tennessee is an “employment at will” state. If you have an employment contract you are bound by the terms of that contract. If you don’t; you are bound by whatever rules your employer puts in place. What does your employer say about you transferring your weapon to secure it in your vehicle? Because their opinion is the only one that matters.

If the state of Tennessee wants to tell your employer you have a right to carry a gun; then the state would have to recognize that you have a right to carry a gun. That is not the case; it is a crime to carry a gun in this state.

Please don’t take my comments as supporting what they are doing. I have a carry permit but it really upsets me that the state would think they have the authority to force this on employers just because our “special group” paid them money while others did not. That’s a thug government.

 

[monkeylizard]

The new law can be found here:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/109/Bill/SB1058.pdf

 

It goes into effect 7/1/2015