A Wildcat For the Wife

[CommsNBombs]

Been pouring over reviews and numbers and other data about some wildcats, my wife now wants her own dedicated AR, just not in .223/5.56.

In a perfect world it would be SBRed in the neighborhood of 12 inches. Suppressed, and be able to knock down bucks and hogs are around 400M accurately. Oh...and it WONT be 300BLK.

Tried it, hated it...Can't really say why, she didnt like it either.

Ive been looking a lot at 6.8SPC or 7.62x40WT. Almost sold on the WT but for our fever dream 12" Suppressed rifle...is that viable?

I have ZERO experience with wildcats in the civilian/personal use realm; this is a purpose built rifle, not something Im going to jump out of a MH60 with.

I am open to criticism and other suggestions/anecdotes on the subject. Id also like to try to buy the components in TN if I could, to avoid weeks/months of waits. So if anyone knows places within 2 hrs of FTCKY that have barrels/uppers in any discussed calibers.

As always I thank you all in advance for your help, in yet another firearms endeavor.

[Dolomite_supafly]

For supersonic the WT has about 200 fps more velocity. There is no other caliber more capable of subsonic shooting than the Blackout. Not sure if either the WT or the 6.8 is capable of ethically taking deer at 400 yards. The Blackout is 200 yards max and I am not sure an extra 200 fps would get you to 400.

[Hozzie]

Why SBR'd?  Simply for weight?  I think a 16" barrel would offer you a lot more choices and not add much weight.  I think you will have a hard time finding something to stabilize and efficiently burn all of the powder in that short of barrel to do what you are asking.

[Caster]

A build I have been contemplating for a couple of years is a .357 Sig.  

 

Lone wolf makes a lower that takes Glock magazines so feeding will be a non issue.  The barrel will be the biggest issue.  Using a 6,8mmSPC bolt and a pistol length gas system will get you a locked breech and the 357 sig should make MORE than enough pressure to cycle reliably.  

I think the cartridge would perform very well in a long barrel although NOT to the 400m you want.  It would whoop a hogs butt at a 100 yards though with a 147g XTP or equivalent.  

 

 

Sourcing a barrel is not impossible.  Just a touch pricey.  THe only other thing is the buffer and spring might take a touch of tinkering....but I doubt it.  

Edited March 25, 2015 by Caster

[CommsNBombs]

400M is more for the hogs if I ever go back near Eglin AFB/Crestview in FL, im sure taking deer will be much closer around here

Dolo;
By ethically you mean it doesnt kill them in one shot? Certainly would rather drop em in one.

Hozzie, weight and ergonomics, my wife is 4'11" on patrol with just a plate carrier and issued M4 it looks like a musket on her. If it would cause problems with gassing/powder burn I guess she'll have to suck it up.

Caster, dont really have much experience with pistol rounds other than 9mm. It is something to look into though, Ill add that to my list of consideration.

Anyone know how loud a suppressed supersonic 6.8/x40WT round is? About as loud as a 556 w/ a can?

Appreciate all the answers thus far.

[Wingshooter]

I'm still intrigued by the 6.5 Grendel. I've been reading good things about it's performance from suppressed SBRs


Found this on 65grendel.com:

Edited March 25, 2015 by Wingshooter

[Jct1911]

Blowback isn't really a great idea with bottleneck cartridges. It'll ruin your brass quickly. That's why you don't see any .357 sig blowback carbines. DI would work assuming you can get enough weight and port pressure.

[CommsNBombs]

The other thing is I have never reloaded. Of these .223 cased wildcats like 6.5, 6.8, x40WT etc...are they had cartridges to learn on?

[CommsNBombs]

I'm still intrigued by the 6.5 Grendel. I've been reading good things about it's performance from suppressed SBRs


Found this on 65grendel.com:

Wonder how the performance, especially the trajectory drop would change with an extra 2 inches of barrel length.

Its good to 250M then it starts nose diving, granted you can compensate for it with good glass, but 34 inched of drop over the next 150M to 400 is a little extreme...JMHO

[Caster]

Blowback isn't really a great idea with bottleneck cartridges. It'll ruin your brass quickly. That's why you don't see any .357 sig blowback carbines. DI would work assuming you can get enough weight and port pressure.

It wouldn't consider it with the sig. It's a pretty hot little fella.

[nightrunner]

7.62x40WT is nothing more than a slightly modified .300BLK. If you don't like blackout, the don't even look at the 7.62x40WT.

There is no cartridge that will fit in an AR-15 magazine that will ethically take a hog at 400yds. Hogs are tough. If you want a 400yd hog gun, get a AR-10 in .308win.

For an AR-15 good to 400yds on humans or whitetail deer, either the 6.8spc or the 6.5 Grendel are what you are looking at. I favor the 6.8spc as an alternative caliber, but nothing in the AR platform beats the 6.5grendel at extended ranges.

6.8spc was designed for a 14.5-16" barrel. Optimum SBR length is 12.5". 6.5 Grendel was designed for longer range and longer barrels 18"+ but it still performs out of a 16".

Also, nothing will be as quiet as a .300BLK suppressed, except maybe a 9mm or a .22lr

The only calibers from an AR-15 that I would be comfortable trying to make kills at 400yds would be either a 77gr 5.56, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8scp, or a supersonic .300BLK/7.62x40wt Edited March 25, 2015 by nightrunner

[MacGyver]

i sure like the 338 Spectre. Great subsonic capability. Fewer supersonic choices than the 300BLK. It suppresses well through a 9mm can.

You're not going out to 400m with the subsonics, though. Not unless you have some type of mortar sight anyway. But, within 150m it's awfully respectable.

[CommsNBombs]

Guess 6.8SPC would be the thing to do.

The suppressor is more for sake of our hearing, and not being high speed tacticool mall cops. We will scrap that idea if it will suffer.

Ive also ran into the 6.8 BSP, from what I gather is just a fat 200gr bullet with a 1:7 twist, it posts numbers close to that of a 300BLK. Never heard of it though.

Now, if I did want to also be able to use 6.8SPC out of a SBR or "Recce" 16" barrel, would that 1:7 overstabilize a vanilla 6.8SPC round?

Just hashing through my options.

Really dont want to jump bake into the Blackout craze lol

[rocketman]

I'm not sure a 6.8 SPC would be classified a wildcat, would it? You can walk into almost any Walmart and buy ammo for it. I've had mine several years and I love it. My boys and I went hog hunting in FL a few years ago each of us carrying a 6.8 AR. We killed 4 big pigs with 5 rounds and none of those were head shots. The one pig that took two shots was running and the first round hit him a little far back so my son shot him again. The 6.8 is one of those rounds that just seems to kill better than the numbers say it should. YMMV....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited March 26, 2015 by rocketman

[Mark A]

A build I have been contemplating for a couple of years is a .357 dig

This has been high on my list for a few years. I think a SBR AR in 357 Sig would be a hoot and a pretty darn good home defense gun.

I was just about to order the pieces/parts from that fella who makes DI pistol caliber AR's when Sig announced the MPX. I'm going to see how it does and then decide which way to go...

Mark

[Omega]

You look into the .277 Wolverine? I contemplated it when it got announced but I was playing with the 300Blk so didn't want another AR to convert brass for. It was showing promise, somewhere between the 300Blk and the 6.8. Its definitely a wildcat round at this point so don't expect much off the shelf.

http://www.maddogweapons.com/277-wolverine.html

[Clod Stomper]

6.5 Grendel is going to get you closest to 400 yards.  Out of a short barrel, it may be reaching its limits, but I don't think another round will do better at that range.  

 

Edit:  If you're not an experienced handloader, don't get into the Grendel unless you want to shoot factory rounds only.  I've been handloading since I was 14.  The Grendel presented challenges I hadn't run into before.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Clod Stomper

[Dolomite_supafly]

A silenced, supersonic round is going to be loud because of the supersonic crack. And that crack is the same regardless of the caliber. A 22lr that is supersonic has the same crack as a supersonic 30 caliber. The supersonic crack starts the second it leaves the bore but doesn't get noticeable until about 15 feet from the muzzle and continues until the bullet drops below the speed of sound. And the supersonic crack sounds like a gun shot even though the muzzle blast might be muffled by the silencer. But as far as actual noise levels it is comparable to a 22 lr so unless the target is under 15 feet it is still going to be considered loud to most people.

 

If I were to pick one of the cartridges mentioned in the thread it would be the Grendel but that is based on performance and nothing else. It will be pricey to buy ammunition as well as troublesome to load accurate rounds for but it would come close to what you are looking for.

 

There are other calibers capable of being fired from an AR. The 30 OSSM is somewhere between 30-06 and 300 Win Mag out of an AR. Ammunition is available, expensive but available, and is more than capable of taking ethical shots at 400 yards. Now it will not have the magazine capacity of the others but no matter what you choose there will be tradeoffs. There are also guns available in most of the WSSM calibers, again it will be expensive to buy and shoot but most are more than capable of doing what you are looking for.

 

A good rule of thumb for the 300 Blackout is whatever a 308 Winchester is capable of doing the 300 Blackout can do the same minus 275 yards. That is if you feel comfortable taking deer at 400 yards with the 308 the 300 Blackout will be able to do the same at 125 yards. The 300 Blackout does two things really well, shoot really lightweight bullets really fast and shoot really heavy bullets really slow. And neither of those options works well for long range shots on game. You cannot get enough velocity, even from the muzzle, for most hunting bullets to expand. I LOVE the 300 Blackout but it is a short range cartridge when it comes to taking game. I do not hunt but most that do hunt with the Blackout say shots need to be under 150 yards.

[CommsNBombs]

Well with all the info im between the 6.8SPC, 6.8BSP, .277, or the .357 SIG. If I cant be fiscally responsible ill be back into 300BLK :(

I thank all of you for the quick feedback and advice, and will update as soon as I build the rifle

[DaveTN]

Let her try a 308 AR while wearing good ear protection. She will be impressed with the power, every imaginable round available without trying to find or make designer rounds, 100 yards or 1000 it doesn’t matter, and you won’t be stuck with the ridiculous cost of trying to Suppress and SBR a 30 cal rifle.

[Caster]

Don't forget the .30 ARX which is a 6.5 grendel necked up to 30 cal

 

It has a lot more case capacity over the 300BLK and is awfully close to the [now defunct] .30 RAR

[CommsNBombs]

Let her try a 308 AR while wearing good ear protection. She will be impressed with the power, every imaginable round available without trying to find or make designer rounds, 100 yards or 1000 it doesn’t matter, and you won’t be stuck with the ridiculous cost of trying to Suppress and SBR a 30 cal rifle.

 

I haven't even fired an AR10 yet lol. 

 

She actually bought herself a WASR-10 and has been doing work to it; she just wants to build an AR for herself now.

 

I wouldn't be too against an AR10, but I have zero experience with 308, or similar big bore calibers outside of the military, I know an AR-10 is a big difference from a M240B.

 

We're also trying to be fiscally responsible about this, only reason I am looking for big calibers in the AR-15 platform is for the superfluous amount of 5.56 brass we have lying around and because of all the spare parts I have.

 

I guess in a way I am also trying to add a personal touch to it, as this will end up being a prolonged birthday gift, as corny as that sounds.