Getting Tailed, what to do

[CommsNBombs]

A little background on the title...

 

About a month or so ago my wife and I were returning home from an errand, and we both left our pistols in the house. Mind you we both drive Mustangs, so a pistol under the seat is about as good as we can get as far as "easy to access" I can't bring my ACR or even my AR-Franken-pistol in them.

 

We live near Walnut St in Clarksville by Providence Blvd, but even when my cousin was stationed here back in the late 90s was a bad neighborhood evidently, but that is besides the point. We drive up a side street, since our turn takes awhile, and some local thug was trying to back out his lifted Impala and I had to slam the brakes and beep at him and give them the 'ole New Yorker salute. We are driving down to our cross street and the wife says mentions he is following us.

 

The guy is pretty hot on our ass, and keeps making a run at us. We have no guns. Not even a knife. Or anything that can harm him at all, so we loop our cul-de-sac, he's still on us...It took me racing out into traffic on 41A and busting an illegal U-Turn to shake him off of us.

 

In that situation, I didn't think I could park, both of us bail, unlock both latches and grab our guns and engage this dude. Our first problem was leaving the guns at home like a pack of idiots.

 

Now...in that same situation, had we been armed like we were supposed to, what would be the proper thing to do?

 

Unbuckling and stepping out of a Mustang to engage a guy behind us takes long enough, and I am not that tall, and there is no cover either. 

 

Should we wait for him to make an aggressive move? If he had a weapon, and was on some mind-altering substance I'd have a feeling waiting would be the wrong thing.

On the same token, should we both come out guns drawn (we both carry hot even in the vehicles) at the dude, yes, I realize tailing is pretty aggressive and if it were out of country on a government sponsored trip that'd be the right thing to do, but I am more worried about it legally. The CPD isn't a very big fan of the Army, last thing we need is to come out guns blazing and the dude just wanted to apologize or something.

 

I have a feeling I am over thinking this...but both tactically (Without sounding like a call-of-duty'er) and legally, what would be the best way to approach a situation like that?

[Metalhead]

Proper thing to do? Probably not flip off someone over something so trivial.

[broox]

It starts at the beginning. Don't give him the bird. I know this isn't what you are looking for, but I really try not to flip people off.

[Garufa]

You have a phone right?  Dial 911.

 

Never drive anywhere close to where you live with someone on your tail.  Leave the area.

 

As much as it pains me to say it if you flipped the ass off then you can be seen as the aggressor, especially if you are packing heat.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Garufa

[ncomarc]

^^^ +1, last time someone got aggressive with me I dialed 911 and headed to the closest police station.

[CommsNBombs]

My bad. It got double posted. Google Chrome had a tendency to do that to me

Granted, yah we should not have flipped him off regardless of how close he came to hitting us.

Im still undoing my bad behavior I picked up in the Northeast.

Take the same situation, but without us flipping him off...just call 911? I didnt think theyd respond to a "some dudes following me"

Just its better to think simpler.
As I was.. Edited March 24, 2015 by CommsNBombs

[DaveTN]

You are a willful participant in a road rage incident. You have two choices; call 911 and hope for help or stop your vehicle and see what happens.

If you had a gun, getting out and pointing a gun at someone will get you cuffed and stuffed. If you lack the ability to finish what you started, just sit there in a locked car. If they try to force entry or pull a weapon they have escalated it to a life threatening situation; then you can do what you have to do and deal with the fallout when it’s over.
 

Take the same situation, but without us flipping him off...just call 911? I didnt think theyd respond to a "some dudes following me"

Most Police Departments don’t let their dispatchers decide if you need help or not; when you call they send someone. If they are busy that may not work in the time frame you have. Our dispatchers would usually put it out as “Anyone close to (your location)?” Chances are someone is close or can get there quickly; but not always.

If you are going to flip someone off; stop your car and deal with them.

[suspiciousmind]

After living in Boston, I totally understand your issue with letting go of the road rage induced middle finger. I've found a way to curtail that issue by just putting my hand out the window in a "WTF" motion.

Although, it sounds to me like this guy would've done it middle finger or not. To some people, simply being honked at is a sign of aggression.

As a heavy handed horn user against all the terrible Tennessee drivers, I feel your pain.

[suspiciousmind]

Also, never leave home without your pistol. :)

[Raoul]

Life's too short to be stupid.

[suspiciousmind]

Life's too short to be stupid.

What would Hunter Thompson have done? :lol:

[CommsNBombs]

Got it, I promise Im not an immature person

Hence, the full disclosure. I try not to even beep the horn at anyone around here

[Raoul]

What would Hunter Thompson have done? :lol:

Shot at them with a 44 mag.

So without having one on you.....

[Raoul]

It's way too easy to get sucked into someone elses  vortex of stupidity. Been there, done that, and it didn't turn out so well.

It always pays to pick your battles wisely.

[DaveTN]

Got it, I promise Im not an immature person

Hence, the full disclosure. I try not to even beep the horn at anyone around here

You want to have a conversation about whether or not you can kill someone because they scared you.

That’s okay that conversation goes on here all the time. But the answer is always the same; it will be decided on the facts of YOUR case. Any little difference can make a big difference in whether or not you are arrested and then if you are convicted.

But that’s okay we play “what if” here a lot also. Ask what you would like to know.

[CommsNBombs]

I was wondering the legality of it.

Driving home, armed...someone gets upset/annoyed tails you.

Ive been in a few armed confrontations, both here and abroad...I know what I am trained to do, Im not going to run I am going to confront them.

I want to know, the moment I confront, on my property...what rights do I have?

Can I draw...or is that considered aggressive?
Is someone charging a car up on my driveway and jumping out considered imminent danger even if I cannot tell if theyre armed?

What it boils down to is my area is high crime, my wife and I will always choose fight over flight. Is it within legal bounds if one of the known drug dealers tails us, comes on our property aggresively can I engage?

[DaveTN]

I was wondering the legality of it.

Driving home, armed...someone gets upset/annoyed tails you.

Ive been in a few armed confrontations, both here and abroad...I know what I am trained to do, Im not going to run I am going to confront them.

I want to know, the moment I confront, on my property...what rights do I have?

Can I draw...or is that considered aggressive?
Is someone charging a car up on my driveway and jumping out considered imminent danger even if I cannot tell if theyre armed?

What it boils down to is my area is high crime, my wife and I will always choose fight over flight. Is it within legal bounds if one of the known drug dealers tails us, comes on our property aggresively can I engage?

Pulling a gun is not against the law. Pulling a gun and threatening someone without cause is a crime.

There are no hard and fast rules of when you can kill someone; even with Castle Doctrine and those types of laws there is no free fire zone.

“A reasonable Person”; that is what you will be tried on and convicted or acquitted. No one cares what you thought while it was going on. They only care what a “Reasonable Person” would have thought. I can think of several people in the last few years that were convicted and sent to prison after making the argument they were defending themselves. I can also think of one that committed murder and was acquitted.

The common thread I see in a lot of these cases is people saying they were defending themselves/their children/their wife/ whatever. Protecting your family also means not leaving them to fin for themselves while you go prison.

[Pain103]

Someone just following another vehicle on a public road isn't threatening but is alarming. Avoid going home and avoid dead end streets. Make turns through streets that typically aren't used for through traffic and you will know if someone is following you. Call 911 you wouldn't be the first person to do this. Give updated locations along with your flashers on. The sight of a police car behind them will probably be enough to get them to alter their travels. If that doesn't work when the officer observes a traffic infraction they could conduct a stop giving you time to beat feet.

If the same person followed you home and entered your driveway I would still hesitate to draw but if you were open carrying they might bug out. If you get a tag number and description have it entered into a cad entry at the police department. Ongoing cases could constitute harassment and or stalking.

[Mike.357]

I would guess you brought this totally on yourself.

 

Did you honking your horn stop him from hitting you or was it you calling attention to it?  And you flipping someone off is just plain stupid.  You don't know who he is.  He might be the baddest ass in the world who takes crap from no one.   

 

Reads to me that you started a pissing match.

 

Probably a good thing you were not carrying.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Mike.357

[Omega]

First, its never a good idea to get out of your vehicle to confront anyone whether armed or not; won't end good.  If you feel you are being followed, make a few turns to verify if that is the case.  If verified, call 911and head to a police station and let the operator know your location and route.  Don't stop right behind anyone, leave room, If at a stop and the other driver gets out, drive off.  If confronted by an armed assailant,  let him come to you.  If armed yourself its best to respond from the car, if not you have at least a 1/2 ton weapon at your disposal. 

[LagerHead]

Short of Metalhead's suggestion, I don't think you could handle it better. Just because you're armed doesn't mean you should invite confrontation. While I am a firm believer in stand your ground and castle doctrine and all that stuff, no matter how big of a d-bag a guy might be, it's not worth taking his life because you had to use your brakes and move the steering wheel and everything turned out Ok.

 

***Language Warning***

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8062QEFk5g

[Pete123]

Some of the responses to CommsNBombs come across to me as being needlessly harsh.  All of us lose our tempers and all of us make mistakes.  In this case, CommsNBombs situation provides a learning opportunity for him and for the rest of us.

 

Massad Ayoob has some great videos which are no charge that are worth watching.  He is one of the most knowledgeable people about shootings

 

Some of the points I took from watching him:

 

1. Being a willing participant in conflict that leads to shooting can cause a world of hurt.  Having the ability to take someone's life creates great responsibility, part of which is to do everything possible to avoid the need for a gun.  This sounds like he was a willing participant.

2. Shooting someone, even if it is completely justified, can bankrupt the shooter.  Again, avoiding is the way to go if possible.

3. According to Ayoob, a completely justified shooter stands about 90% chance of acquittal.  You never know what kind of jury you'll have.  Of course, the odds decrease as more factors are involved, with being an active participant being a biggie.

4. You never know what you'll get in a district attorney and a jury.  I was on a jury where the state had absolutely no case whatever.  We found the guy not guilty in about a minute.  That guy paid a lawyer, who was very well prepared, to be in court for a day and a half.  No telling how much that cost him when the accusation was that he wadded up a piece of paper and threw it in someone's face.

5. I would absolutely shoot someone if there were no other choice, though I will do whatever I can to avoid it.

6. I will have to live with myself if I shoot someone.  I want to know that I didn't have any other choice.

 

Again, we all make mistakes and this situation provides a great learning opportunity.  

 

Having said all this, I will also say that Hank Williams Jr's song, "I'd like to knock the Hell out of you" matches how I feel on a frequent basis.

[teecro]

Wow that entire story read off as what should a person not do......

[EssOne]

 I guess I'm with Mike .357 on this one, neighbor. I think you're looking at the wrong end of the problem. I think your time would be better spent building some self control and coming up with a less provocative response than figuring out how to get out of the next mess your lack of self control gets you into. Public displays of anger and derision can really mess up your life good.

Edited March 25, 2015 by LMTFAN

[CommsNBombs]

Pulling a gun is not against the law. Pulling a gun and threatening someone without cause is a crime.

There are no hard and fast rules of when you can kill someone; even with Castle Doctrine and those types of laws there is no free fire zone.

“A reasonable Person”; that is what you will be tried on and convicted or acquitted. No one cares what you thought while it was going on. They only care what a “Reasonable Person” would have thought. I can think of several people in the last few years that were convicted and sent to prison after making the argument they were defending themselves. I can also think of one that committed murder and was acquitted.

The common thread I see in a lot of these cases is people saying they were defending themselves/their children/their wife/ whatever. Protecting your family also means not leaving them to fin for themselves while you go prison.

I appreciate it, that was the scope of this post to find what concrete facts exist.

I now know I was also legally wrong being I was the one who started the thing, regardless of the guy almost hitting me.

I hope it never comes to the point of using deadly force, I dont enjoy the act of taking another human beings life, Taliban, drug dealer, doesnt matter.

I know what I need to work on, and have more knowledge so thank you and everyone else who pitched in.