Do you belong to the NRA?

[Guest bkelm18]

Reading comprehension is a skill you can work on but it does take effort.

Hey, I'm glad to see we don't have to act like children to make a point.

[Guest theolog]

Reading comprehension is a skill you can work on but it does take effort.

So is argumentative prose.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Hey, I'm glad to see we don't have to act like children to make a point.

Don't worry... I think several of us read what he typed, and were left blinking at the screen while thinking "WTF did he even just say?". I even commented to Tungsten about it, in passing convo, and got the same reaction. So you're in good company.

Maybe he should heed his own sarcastic remark.

[Guest Major Pain]

I belonged to the NRA for years and finally got fed up with all the junk mail I was receiving and dropped them. I've had second thoughts and joined back up today at the Jackson gun show. I understand now there is an option out for the junk mail so I'm back in. They may not be the best but at least they're trying so I will to.--MP

[Fallguy]

Don't worry... I think several of us read what he typed, and were left blinking at the screen while thinking "WTF did he even just say?". I even commented to Tungsten about it, in passing convo, and got the same reaction. So you're in good company.

Maybe he should heed his own sarcastic remark.

Well not to but I could tell that he was against lobby groups, not necessarly that he didn't have a opinion one way or the other.

But I've been accused of being a little myslef.

[Guest Jason F.]

Hey, I'm glad to see we don't have to act like children to make a point.

I am sorry you feel it was childish. It was not intended in that mater. It was a sarcastic comment but I have a very sarcastic sense of humor as it is. It may have been a little out of line and for that I apologize.

Several people including you seemed to completely misread and misinterpret my previous post. Maybe it was not clear enough but I had not problem comprehending it as written and neither did the three other people I sent it to after these replies started coming in. I took offense to several of the replies and viewed them as somewhat of an attack on me, possibly incorrectly, hence the sarcastic tone I took.

The original question was about being an NRA member and if not why not. My first post was my explanation. I do not support lobby groups. The NRA is a lobby group and they do not get my support. I also do not support other lobby groups even if they are fighting for a good cause I agree with.

It is simple, you have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to your beliefs. I believe our political system is flawed and failing so I drew the line at supporting lobbyist. I have drawn similar lines on other fronts but this is the one that applies to this discussion.

My opinion is not an attack on anyone who does support the NRA or an attack on the NRA itself. The NRA does what it can in the system we have at this time. As long as there is an anti gun lobby I hope they continue to fight it. If there is a movement to eliminate lobbyist from the "Hill" I will support it. Until then I stand behind my previous comments and will not support special interest or lobbyist groups.

So is argumentative prose.

No need for argumentative prose when you are not trying to be argumentative. The only argument that I have is with someone misinterprets my words.

[Warbird]

Well it is nice to know that you will not support anyone or any group who would try and let your representatives know how you feel about legislation or educate them on any subject.

No you go one step further and actually suggest citizens should not HAVE THE RIGHT to go to politicians and let them know anything. So they can simply do as they please in absolute ignorance of anything.

The absolute and utter ignorance of who and what a lobbyist is only surpassed in this country by the ignorance and lack of any basic knowledge of economics for 90%+ of the population.

You have no idea of what you say. You do not comprehend the ramifications of barring any lobbyist (ie citizen) from the system due simply to your complete lack of knowledge of our system at all. I hate to sound mean, I am not saying you are stupid, but ignorant of our system.

[Guest Grout]

Since the late 1900's (1976)

[Guest Todd@CIS]

The NRA does what it can in the system we have at this time. As long as there is an anti gun lobby I hope they continue to fight it. If there is a movement to eliminate lobbyist from the "Hill" I will support it. Until then I stand behind my previous comments and will not support special interest or lobbyist groups.

Since you chose not to answer my question in my first post, I'll just make a statement.

The above is what bothers me. You stand by and take the unrealistic, theoretical high road, all the while happily benefiting from others who "get their hands dirty."

You enjoy the benefits so much that you "hope they continue the fight"...

...they should just do it without your help.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[fury2neon]

A true neutral alignment is impossible in theory and practice.

+1 The only time things are neutral is when everyone is dead.

[Guest Jason F.]

Well it is nice to know that you will not support anyone or any group who would try and let your representatives know how you feel about legislation or educate them on any subject.

No you go one step further and actually suggest citizens should not HAVE THE RIGHT to go to politicians and let them know anything. So they can simply do as they please in absolute ignorance of anything.

The absolute and utter ignorance of who and what a lobbyist is only surpassed in this country by the ignorance and lack of any basic knowledge of economics for 90%+ of the population.

You have no idea of what you say. You do not comprehend the ramifications of barring any lobbyist (ie citizen) from the system due simply to your complete lack of knowledge of our system at all. I hate to sound mean, I am not saying you are stupid, but ignorant of our system.

Actually I think you do not understand the system in place and my stance on it. I feel the Citizens have been taken out of the system now. The lobby groups in place are not the voice of the people. A large majority of those interest groups are funded and powered by Big Oil, Big Tobacco, The Unions, and other multi billion dollar industries. These high dollar and high powered lobbyist groups have actually drowned out and negated the voice of the citizen.

The people should have the ear of their representatives in Washington. They should be able to send a letter or make a phone call to their representatives and make their opinion known. As it stands now there is no one there to answer the phone or check the mail since they are over a the country club having lunch with lobbyist from the Insurance Underwriters Association.

That is the flaw in the system. It does not matter how long it has been in place or how realistic it is to try and fight it. It is a system that does not truly serve the citizens. You can try to spin it anyway you want if the lobby supports your interest but that does not mean they are doing a good thing for our political system.

You may disagree with me and that is fine but you will certainly not convince me that the lobby serves the people. The lobby serves itself and the interest of the major players with deep pockets. Your representatives should listen only to the voice of the people, the Constitution, and the other documents this country was founded upon.

I am a US Citizen first and a firearms enthusiast a distant second. You can choose to fight the battle of gun rights and choose to do so by supporting the NRA. I choose a slightly different battle even if that puts other things at risk including my gun rights. I can not fight for every issue I feel strongly about, my resources do not allow that. I have simply picked a different battle than some of the folks here.

As a general rule I do not speak out much on matters of politics but this election has me really pissed off about the problems in our system. I think it is safe to assume 99% of the people here were against Obama. Obama is now your President Elect thanks, in no small part, to the support of the lobbyist and special interest groups with their deep pockets. The real question is are you not opposed to special interest groups buying votes and influencing elections? How do you reconcile supporting a group buying votes and influencing elections only when they are the votes you want?

I am one of only a handful of people here whos livelyhood litereraly depends on gun rights. I am in the firearms industry and would still rather fight for improvements in our political system than fight for one small orginization that I see as part of the problem. I would rather see my country flurish and its governemnt listen to its people not just have my gun rights flourish and its government listen to the NRA. I stand firm in saying that despite the fact that the contracts for the firearms compontents I make could dry up tomorrow and the parts themselves become illegal.

My fight may be futile but that does not make it unworthy of fighting. Many in this world that would say the fight to preserve gun rights is futile or simply wrong. That does not stop many here from fighting for those rights.

[Guest Jason F.]

Since you chose not to answer my question in my first post, I'll just make a statement.

The above is what bothers me. You stand by and take the unrealistic, theoretical high road, all the while happily benefiting from others who "get their hands dirty."

You enjoy the benefits so much that you "hope they continue the fight"...

...they should just do it without your help.

I am sorry I thought your first response was more of a statement and not a direct question. Regardless my later responses were directed to all of the replies and were simply to further clarify my stance.

You see it as a unrealistic and theoretical high road and I see is a fight that is worth fighting. My gun rights are not the result of the NRA they are a result of the Constitution of the United States. They should be preserved not my pocket change going to a lobbyist but by my representatives listening to my voice and following the Constitution. You see your support of the NRA as getting your hands dirty while I see it as throwing your money into a flawed system that does not truly serve you or me.

The NRA may have made some headway in preserving our rights in the past but at what cost? Simply overlooking that the NRA is part of the problem with the system because they fight for one of your interests does not make it ok in my opinion.

To your original question, Where would we be if all all gun owners shared my opinion? There are enough gun owners that we might be a little bit closer to getting our government back from the special interest groups. If more people including gun owners and non gun owners shared my opinion we would be much closer to getting it back.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Perfect World vs. Reality

If we fight a "perfect world" fight, we'll lose hands down.

If if if...if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

Wishing the fight was different doesn't change the fight.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[Guest grimel]

The reality is I doubt we can get rid of the special interest groups and the money they use to buy votes.

Everyone belongs to multiple special interest groups. Some of which conflict with each other.

[Guest grimel]

Actually I think you do not understand the system in place and my stance on it. I feel the Citizens have been taken out of the system now. The lobby groups in place are not the voice of the people. A large majority of those interest groups are funded and powered by Big Oil, Big Tobacco, The Unions, and other multi billion dollar industries. These high dollar and high powered lobbyist groups have actually drowned out and negated the voice of the citizen.

Just who do you think makes up "the Unions", "the tree huggers", "big oil", "big tobacco", and every other group?

[deerslayer]

Been a member for many years and am, frankly, a bit suprised at how many people on this thread aren't members.

[SpacemanSpiff]

I'm a member, will try to become a life member when the money is available.

[Guest Jason F.]

Just who do you think makes up "the Unions", "the tree huggers", "big oil", "big tobacco", and every other group?

A small number of their upper level officials who guide their path. Hence a small group in physical numbers i.e. Big Oil can exert far more force than their numbers would normally allow just because of the extreme level of profits. This results in a small number of people drowning out the voice of the normal citizen as I stated before.

Everyone belongs to multiple special interest groups. Some of which conflict with each other.

Actually as I stated before I avoid joining pretty much any organizations with political ambitions. I am currently not a dues paying member of any organization and certainly no political lobby organizations. The closest I come is a membership to Owl Hollow Gun club, i.e. buying a range membership.

[Volzfan]

Yes I am.

[MikeD]

Just made the first payment on my EPL membership last week. 39 more payments and I will be a Lifetime member. Planning on a payment a month vs. their planned payment a quarter.

[Guest justaman30]

Yep, for over a year now.

[Guest grimel]

A small number of their upper level officials who guide their path. Hence a small group in physical numbers i.e. Big Oil can exert far more force than their numbers would normally allow just because of the extreme level of profits. This results in a small number of people drowning out the voice of the normal citizen as I stated before.

1) when did 8% become extreme?

2) the upper level officials got there by doing what their members wanted or they wouldn't have been voted into their positions.

3) I take it those members aren't "normal" people

Actually as I stated before I avoid joining pretty much any organizations with political ambitions. I am currently not a dues paying member of any organization and certainly no political lobby organizations. The closest I come is a membership to Owl Hollow Gun club, i.e. buying a range membership.

One doesn't have to be a member to belong to a special interest group (that is just to vote/support "the cause" for those too cheap to do their part) only exist. You ARE a member of the special interest gun group (just not supporting the cause). You ARE a member of what ever industry you work special interest group (just not supporting the cause).

[Guest Astra900]

You're a member of TGO. We're a special interest group.

[Guest Grout]

Been a member for many years and am, frankly, a bit suprised at how many people on this thread aren't members.

+1.

[patbax2]

I just joined as we speak