handgun registration question

[Guest grubby]

I was told that they do not register a new gun to a persons name when you buy a new gun from a ffa dealer is that true or could you shed some light on the truth. Big debate here where I work and would like to know

[MacGyver]

Depends on how you define 'registration'.

 

Officially, there is no registration of firearms in the state of Tennessee.  That said, you fill out a form 4473 whenever you buy a new weapon from a dealer.  

 

In this post-Snowden world, I wouldn't be willing to bet that all of that data isn't getting sucked up into multiple big-government databases.

[gregintenn]

According to law, there is no gun registration.

 

In reality, however, your name, address and the make and serial number of the gun are all listed on the form you fill out for the instant check.

 

It isn't supposed to go anywhere, but it does exist. How well do you trust the ATF?

[luvmyberetta]

When you purchase a gun at a FFL the shop owner must keep a physical record of the sale (along with all your info) on hand for 20 years before they can be discarded. A friend of mine owns a pawn shop & says he has been visited by the TN BATF & has had to pull records on guns he sold well over 10 years old on more than one occasion because a gun he sold was either stolen, lost, or used in a crime. In many cases the guns had traded hands several times & the BATF needed to track down the original owner & go from there. That's why it's also a good idea to get a private bill of sale whenever trading or selling a gun, especially if you bought it through a FFL.

[mark42202]

According to law, there is no gun registration.

 

In reality, however, your name, address and the make and serial number of the gun are all listed on the form you fill out for the instant check.

 

It isn't supposed to go anywhere, but it does exist. How well do you trust the ATF?

 

Negative. The only info submitted for the NICS check is your personal info (name, address, ssn, etc.). No firearm info at all. All the firearm info goes onto the Form 4473, which stays with the store/ seller and doesn't get submitted. The ATF can only get that information from the seller if it is part of a criminal investigation, or if there is suspicion of a crime.

[monkeylizard]

The ATF can only get that information from the seller if it is part of a criminal investigation, or if there is suspicion of a crime.

 

Not entirely true. If an FFL closes up shop, they have to send all of their stored 4473s to the BATFE who dumps them in a big warehouse, so that's another way they can get their hands on them. In theory, they have agents who will sort through the paper files as needed. Personally, I'd be shocked if they aren't digitally recording them all, esp as MacGyver said "in this post-Snowden world".

[Patton]

Negative. The only info submitted for the NICS check is your personal info (name, address, ssn, etc.). No firearm info at all. All the firearm info goes onto the Form 4473, which stays with the store/ seller and doesn't get submitted. The ATF can only get that information from the seller if it is part of a criminal investigation, or if there is suspicion of a crime.

Actually, they are allowed to do audits at anytime. Also, when a multiple gun transaction occurs within 5 days the ATF gets a multiple gun transaction form sent to them that does have the serial numbers.

[Smith]

Not entirely true. If an FFL closes up shop, they have to send all of their stored 4473s to the BATFE who dumps them in a big warehouse, so that's another way they can get their hands on them. In theory, they have agents who will sort through the paper files as needed. Personally, I'd be shocked if they aren't digitally recording them all, esp as MacGyver said "in this post-Snowden world".

BY federal law they can not digitally document them. However, Reno was caught doing it. Supposedly they destroyed her "secret" records. :ugh:  

[Oh Shoot]

Negative. The only info submitted for the NICS check is your personal info (name, address, ssn, etc.). No firearm info at all....

 

Type of firearm is sent (long gun/handgun/other firearm)

 

- OS

[Smith]

Actually, they are allowed to do audits at anytime. Also, when a multiple gun transaction occurs within 5 days the ATF gets a multiple gun transaction form sent to them that does have the serial numbers.

Yes, they can audit at any time, but they can not take, reproduce, keep, or copy any information unless they have a warrant .... by law. They will tell you different, but it is illegal. Try to enforce that. Just ask Ares Armor. They can only check/audit for FFL clerical compliance 

[mark42202]

Type of firearm is sent (long gun/handgun/other firearm)

 

- OS

 

 

Right, but no specific info (i.e. "registration"). Only the type of firearm they're wishing to buy.

[mark42202]

Not entirely true. If an FFL closes up shop, they have to send all of their stored 4473s to the BATFE who dumps them in a big warehouse, so that's another way they can get their hands on them. In theory, they have agents who will sort through the paper files as needed. Personally, I'd be shocked if they aren't digitally recording them all, esp as MacGyver said "in this post-Snowden world".

 

This is an "if" scenario. That has absolutely nothing to do with a new gun purchase being registered. The original post was:

 

"I was told that they do not register a new gun to a persons name when you buy a new gun from a ffa dealer is that true or could you shed some light on the truth. Big debate here where I work and would like to know"

[mark42202]

Yes, they can audit at any time, but they can not take, reproduce, keep, or copy any information unless they have a warrant .... by law. They will tell you different, but it is illegal. Try to enforce that. Just ask Ares Armor. They can only check/audit for FFL clerical compliance 

 

Exactly

[gregintenn]

Negative. The only info submitted for the NICS check is your personal info (name, address, ssn, etc.). No firearm info at all. All the firearm info goes onto the Form 4473, which stays with the store/ seller and doesn't get submitted. The ATF can only get that information from the seller if it is part of a criminal investigation, or if there is suspicion of a crime.

Reread my post. I never said that info went to the ATF. I said it was recorded on the form you fill out (Form 4473) when you apply for an instant background check.

 

The info is kept by the FFL, and is available to the ATF anytime they wish to come look at it via audit, criminal investigation, etc.

[et45]

Right, but no specific info (i.e. "registration"). Only the type of firearm they're wishing to buy.

the serial number is sent also

[Oh Shoot]

the serial number is sent also

 

To TICS, yeah.

 

- OS

[mark42202]

the serial number is sent also

 

 

Yes, to TICS to do a stolen firearms check. By law, TICS shall destroy all records pertaining to approved firearm transfers by the close of business

on the day of the transaction except the transaction number and date the transaction occurred.

[monkeylizard]

This is an "if" scenario. That has absolutely nothing to do with a new gun purchase being registered. The original post was:

 

"I was told that they do not register a new gun to a persons name when you buy a new gun from a ffa dealer is that true or could you shed some light on the truth. Big debate here where I work and would like to know"

 

I wasn't replying to the OP, I was replying to your post which said

 

 

All the firearm info goes onto the Form 4473, which stays with the store/ seller and doesn't get submitted. The ATF can only get that information from the seller if it is part of a criminal investigation, or if there is suspicion of a crime.

 

Your 2nd sentence is incomplete because they can also get it if the FFL goes out of business.

Edited March 19, 2015 by monkeylizard

[monkeylizard]

BY federal law they can not digitally document them. However, Reno was caught doing it. Supposedly they destroyed her "secret" records. :ugh:  

 

This x 1 bazillion. That was back in the Clinton administration, which was a bastion of transparency compared to what we have today, not to mention the technological limitations of Reno's day which are not a factor today.

[Dolomite_supafly]

every time I have purchased a firearm they FFL has told the TBI the serial number as well as all my information, including my SSN. Now whether they keep it and pass it along I do not know but if I were a betting person I would bet there is a massive excel file owned by the .gov with all that information.

[Pdheald]

TICS gets more then just the searal number. They also get the gun manufacuter/importer. Type (from "a cannon" to "bolt action pistol") and caliber. They also get/have all your info from the state data base including address, sex, race and ssn only if you provide it or have in the past. The ssn is the only optional part I know of.

[zybysco]

As soon as your driver license or carry permit number is entered, your social security number is auto populated. Doesn't matter.if you provide it or not.

[eRay]

One other thing about a dealer closing his business. The dealer sends all 4473's in to ATF. They are not legally allowed to create a computer database. What they do instead, is transfer all the forms to microfilm so they can be more easily retrieved at a later date.

[DaveTN]

If someone is saying there is gun registration; they are wrong.

However, if they are saying a gun can be traced; they are right. It’s done every day.

Some gun owners get uptight about law enforcement having the ability to track a firearm; but yes it can (and is) done.

A serial number is easily traced to a store. No FFL holder that wants to keep his license is going to tell the ATF they need a warrant. They will tell them who bought the gun. The TBI need not be involved.

https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-enforcement/national-tracing-center

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Tracing_Center