I might have to eat my words about .380....

[espacef1fan]

In other words noone noticed this round reliably penetrate and causes a long and good sized wound cavity. The jhp doesn't cause a lengthy wound channel. Most 380 jhp also barely gets to 12-13 inches without hitting bone. Do you aim at the chest on silouhettes?

[mikegideon]

In other words noone noticed this round reliably penetrate and causes a long and good sized wound cavity. The jhp doesn't cause a lengthy wound channel. Most 380 jhp also barely gets to 12-13 inches without hitting bone. Do you aim at the chest on silouhettes?

 

I got it. I'm getting some

[espacef1fan]

I like the idea and lab results of this round but I think I would like to see some field results from it. Maybe ship a few boxes to the Pershmerga

[Erik88]

I got it. I'm getting some

 

I was impressed as well. Did you go with the Underwood variety or the original? 

[mikegideon]

I was impressed as well. Did you go with the Underwood variety or the original? 

 

Haven't done anything yet. I'm thinking Underwood. You can also buy just the bullets

[enfield]

I wish I could learn where I could find some of that gel they use for these tests so I could run a few of my own tests.............jmho

 

A fellow (whose screen name escapes me right now) performs his own gelatin tests and reports the results on the Smith & Wesson forum.  If you go there and search for gel testing, you'll probably find him.  He has tested and reported on a lot of .380 rounds.  I bought a bunch of Fiocchi Extrema .380 hollowpoints when they first came out, based on his testing.  The price was REALLY good ($20/50 rounds) then, but the box size has come down and the price gone up since then.

[A.J. Holst]

I think TNOUTDOORS9 has some .380 tests posted on his channel. I loved my Bersa Thunder Plus but divested as 9mm is simply cheaper to shoot for folks who don't reload.

While the opinion of .380 is "underpowered" isn't it is the primary caliber for LEO and civilians in central and south America as well as former iron curtain satellites?

[Will Carry]

There are some people who believe that anything less than a 105mm howitzer is too small for personal protection. I do understand where they are coming from. The .380 with a cross on it? Can you say Vampire Killer? Dip it in garlic and holy water.

[Wicked1911]

I agree. I think this ammo is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist - and not a very good solution, at that. Of course, different people have different expectations and theories as to what they want out of a handgun round and I realize that my opinion is no more 'valid' than anyone else's. That said, here are some reasons I don't think I would use this ammo unless I had no other choice:

1. To my understanding, one of the reasons 9mm Luger got a bad rap, especially in the military where they are limited to ball rounds, is that 9mm ball just pretty much zips right through an assailant, leaving a 9mm wound channel with an entrance and exit wound. It is said that these wounds don't do enough immediate damage to stop the threat in a timely manner. So, why would I want a round that, basically, causes my .380 to mimic those negative properties of a 9mm Luger - i.e. just passing right through the assailant and leaving a 9mm wound channel without doing enough immediate damage to quickly stop the threat?

2. 26 inches of penetration sounds to me like a good way to get overpenetration and increase the chances of injuring or killing a bystander.

3. After Kel Tec released the P3AT, many ammo manufacturers turned their eyes to making more effective .380 defense ammo that could both penetrate adequately and expand. In fact, many of them used the P3AT as a test platform to develop said ammo. When Ruger released their Little Copied Pistol, there was even more attention cast on pocket .380s. True, even some of the newer ammo may expand but not quite reach the F.B.I. standard of 12 inches of penetration but then I am not in the F.B.I. and feel that most of them do adequately penetrate for the purposes of a private citizen, like myself, using a pocket pistol to repel an assailant. I don't really envision a scenario in which I would get involved in a lengthy gun battle where I am trying to shoot through barriers and the like with my pocket pistol. Could it happen? Sure - and (as I have said, before) a piece of space debris could fall from orbit, hit me in the head and kill me but the chances of it actually happening are so remote that I really am not concerned. That said, I stick with Hydroshoks in my P3AT because, in the test results that I have come across, they seem to generally penetrate to between 11.5 and 14 inches while giving at least minimal expansion - plus I have shot enough of it to know that my pistol will feed it just fine.

All this is, of course, just my :2cents: and worth every bit that you paid for it.

My big concern is your #2 responce. I don't want too much penetration from a defensive round because I want it to stop in the bad guy and not end up in an innocent bystander. Edited March 21, 2015 by Wicked1911

[espacef1fan]

12" in gel isn't 12" in a human torso. Also it takes more penetrating ability to pierce torsos at an angle.

[espacef1fan]

My bigger concern is missing more than ovwrpenetrating when it comes to bystanders.

[espacef1fan]

Shooting the bull averaged 16" of penetrating with the ammo in question. Similar to most 9mm jhp rounds

[mikegideon]

12" in gel isn't 12" in a human torso. Also it takes more penetrating ability to pierce torsos at an angle.

 

Yep, cause people ain't round  :rofl:

[enfield]

Parts of me are pretty round.

[mikegideon]

Parts of me are pretty round.

 

Same here. We're too smart to get shot in the first place :)

[1gewehr]

My $.02 and worth every penny!!

 

1)  The first rule of gun fighting is "Have a gun."  Anything is better than nothing.

2)  None of the normal handgun calibers are as effective as nearly any long gun centerfire caliber.

3)  The purpose of a handgun is to let you fight your way to a long gun.

4)  Carry the largest caliber possible that is consistent with your ability to hit your target and other mission factors (concealment, weight, etc.)

 

That said, for several years I carried a Beretta 1934 in .380 when I needed concealment.  Until I found the Star PD in .45acp.  I carried Star PDs for MANY years.  Now I carry an XDs in .45.  Unless need serious concealment, when I carry the little Keltec P3AT.  If I can, I go with .45.  When I can't I go with .380.

 

Make your own choice based on your own abilities and situation.

[xsubsailor]

 How much extra velocity do you think you would gain with a barrel that is 1/2 to 1 inch longer than existing 380s?

 

I'm looking forward to the release of the new Browning 1911-380.   It has a 4 1/2 inch barrel which is longer than my Sig or Beretta.

 

http://www.browning.com/products/interactive/firearms/1911-380/

[espacef1fan]

I like the Browning!

[leroy]

 How much extra velocity do you think you would gain with a barrel that is 1/2 to 1 inch longer than existing 380s?

 

I'm looking forward to the release of the new Browning 1911-380.   It has a 4 1/2 inch barrel which is longer than my Sig or Beretta.

 

http://www.browning.com/products/interactive/firearms/1911-380/

 

About 50 to 100 fps per inch... Barrel length on pistols is a pretty important thing.... 

 

leroy

[Luap]

Hey eapking, I've been in Avery Outdoors, Classic Arms, Bass Pro and both Academys in the past two days and each store has atleast 8 boxes of some sort of .380.  Academy Wolfchase has the most 10-12 plinking and 8-10 self defense.   I suspect Guns and Ammo has some Orange Box.  They've had pretty full shelves lately

 

I was/am looking for some Win 296/H100 powder.  You find some that and I'll go buy enought.380 and we can make a trade. 

 

 

 

 

My problem with 380 is availability. It's MIA here in Memphis. And already invested in 9mm. I'd use HP too in the G43, as I would the G42.

[daddyo]

 How much extra velocity do you think you would gain with a barrel that is 1/2 to 1 inch longer than existing 380s?

 

I'm looking forward to the release of the new Browning 1911-380.   It has a 4 1/2 inch barrel which is longer than my Sig or Beretta.

 

http://www.browning.com/products/interactive/firearms/1911-380/

 

I thought the whole point of .380 was being able to pocket carry. If you're going to carry a full size handgun, why not just carry .45?

Am I missing something?

[monkeylizard]

I thought the whole point of .380 was being able to pocket carry. If you're going to carry a full size handgun, why not just carry .45?

Am I missing something?

 

Not really. Though comparably sized guns in .380 and .45 should give you several extra rounds in the .380 chambering. Same as 9mm vs .45.

 

That said, I personally don't have a purpose for a .380 larger than the P3AT/LCP pocket guns. Anything bigger than that gets you into Kahr PM9/CM9 and S&W Shield territory. If I'm going to take the size/weight increase from an LCP/P3AT, I'll take 9mm with many more options in ammunition and its improved ballistics over .380.

 

I get that some people really like the larger .380 handguns. That's great. I'm just saying that to me, .380 makes no sense outside of the micro-pistols. I had an LCP and sold it. The gun never failed me, but I just didn't have a lot of faith in the round. This new bullet in the OP makes me reconsider the .380 and maybe picking up another LCP for when the Kahr just won't work.

[leroy]

I thought the whole point of .380 was being able to pocket carry. If you're going to carry a full size handgun, why not just carry .45?

Am I missing something?

 

Daddo... While it is exactly what ya stated for most of us here; there was a time when the 380 wasn't exactly a pocket gun... As i remember, the great George Patton carried a Colt 1908 pocket hammerless in his coat pocket... A Colt hammerless is 7 inches long and weighs 24 ounces...

Lots of european police forces used to use 380's as their duty pistol...   There are lots of folks who will tell ya that a 380 fired out of a long barreled semiauto is at least the equivilent of a 38 special fired out of a 2 inch snubbie...   Remember, longer barrels mean things with pistols...

 

leroy

[daddyo]

Daddo... While it is exactly what ya stated for most of us here; there was a time when the 380 wasn't exactly a pocket gun... As i remember, the great George Patton carried a Colt 1908 pocket hammerless in his coat pocket... A Colt hammerless is 7 inches long and weighs 24 ounces...

Lots of european police forces used to use 380's as their duty pistol...   There are lots of folks who will tell ya that a 380 fired out of a long barreled semiauto is at least the equivilent of a 38 special fired out of a 2 inch snubbie...   Remember, longer barrels mean things with pistols...

 

leroy

 

Yeah, I get the longer barrel thing, but if everything else is equal, .380 over .45? Really?

[nightrunner]

Yeah, I get the longer barrel thing, but if everything else is equal, .380 over .45? Really?

It certainly has less recoil for those sensitive to it. Also quite a bit quieter.