ATF raises new concerns about AR-15 ammo

[Oh Shoot]

Of course it just ain't gonna end, folks:

 

 

'In a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, ATF Director B. Todd Jones said all types of the 5.56 military-style ammo used by shooters pose a threat to police as more people buy the AR-15-style pistols.

 

"Any 5.56 round" is "a challenge for officer safety," he said. Jones asked lawmakers to help in a review of a 1986 bill written to protect police from so-called "cop killer" rounds that largely exempted rifle ammo like the 5.56 because it has been used by target shooters, not criminals.'

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/atf-raises-new-worries-about-ar-15-ammo/article/2561422

 

- OS

Edited March 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[TrickyNicky]

Who puts a guy with a letter for a first name in charge of anything anyway? :shrug: I think it's about time for B. Todd to B. going, the guys obviously a special kind of stupid.

[JohnC]

Here we go again. This 2A right fight is getting exhausting! I'm really starting to get pissed now!

We need to push the Republicans to strip the BATFE of their power to regulate ammo or else we're going to get screwed, fellas.

:livid:

[gjohnsoniv]

By that logic most rifle rounds would be banned Just because there are a lot of "pistols" out there, not just AR variants.

[maroonandwhite]

The ATF should know more than anyone about an AR pistol with all of the letters they have been getting on the Sig brace. I'd love for them to do a study to see how many AR pistols have been used against the police. I'd be willing to bet the good ole bolt action would come up more often. Heck I'd bet rocks were used more often.

 

The fact is an AR pistol isn't THAT much smaller and easier for some thug to conceal and carry around. I just don't see what the AR pistol has to do with it. They are reaching for sure.

 

I don't know a way to type this that doesn't sound terrible but I feel like they should worry less about the cops safety (who have training) and more about civilians rights. Maybe they need a little more training in their line of work.

 

As for the round itself. Just from shooting at fruit I'd much rather get hit by a green tip than any type of hollow point.

[MphsTiger1981]

Aside from the Miami shoot out and the North Hollywood Bank Robbery have there been that many shoot outs where the bad guys used rifles to shoot cops? Maybe I just didn't notice, or I don't remember. I do remember the ATF shooting and killing innocent people at Ruby Ridge, jack booted masked government agents busting into the home of the guardians of Elian Gonzalez just to send him back to Cuba, and also remember watching the ATF bulldozing and setting buildings on fire which contained innocent women and children in Waco. I remember them allowing Mexican Cartels to buy guns illegally here and take them back to Mexico, and one or more of them later to be used to kill U.S Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, but I must have missed something that happened in order for it to justify this administration's attitude towards gun owners in general, but specifically AR-15 owners. 

[jacob]

By that logic most rifle rounds would be banned Just because there are a lot of "pistols" out there, not just AR variants.

Wouldn't it be easy to surmise based on the quoted comment that the end game for the ATF and anti 2A crowd would be to ban all rifle rounds? Or, make supply so low of non banned ammo that it is next to impossible to find or afford said ammo due to a skyrocketing purchase price??

I just hope all these comments being made about how any rifle round can penetrate body armor isn't used a la the sig brace to be used against us. HOPEFULLY the political pressure and fear of "civil disobedience" will keep the wolves at bay...

[Garufa]

Of course it just ain't gonna end, folks:

 

- OS

 

Of course it's not going to end.  Once the government gets a notion to do something it will be done.

[rugerla1]

If they give a damn about police safety, which they don't, there are tons of illegal weapons in all major cities (and small ones) that they can go get..but they won't. Edited March 12, 2015 by rugerla1

[MphsTiger1981]

Of course it's not going to end.  Once Obama gets a notion to do something it will be done.

 

 

Fixed it for ya.

[2.ooohhh]

Aside from the Miami shoot out and the North Hollywood Bank Robbery have there been that many shoot outs where the bad guys used rifles to shoot cops? Maybe I just didn't notice, or I don't remember. 

 

Yes, there have been several but one stands out in my mind distinctly mainly b/c I spent the duration of that shootout taking cover in the back room of a Hollywood Video a few hundred yards away.

 

The Brentwood PD was sorely unprepared for the firepower they faced, and I'll never forget what a clusterfutz that robbery turned into. The shootout happened right at the davidson county line and metro had numerous cars trying to assist but they couldn't b/c the Brentwood PD had had the foresight to buy new high tech encrypted radios to keep scanners from listening in. Unfortunately it made communication with other assisting departments(who didn't have the tech) nearly impossible as well, having to relay everything through dispatch. Add to that the Brentwood PD officers had only a glock sidearm and a shotgun available and they were in for a rough go.

 

http://www.brentwoodhomepage.com/bhp-special-report-the-day-brentwood-lost-its-innocence-cms-8847

 

Many in the community stepped forward to make sure it wouldn't go like that again. I'll never forget going with my dad to drop off the check for a new AR to outfit one of our local police cruisers. It's also the day I started planning how to store a rifle in each and every vehicle I own, though that plan didn't come to fruition until I was a few years out of college.

 

 

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130701

Edited March 12, 2015 by 2.ooohhh

[DMark]

Who puts a guy with a letter for a first name in charge of anything anyway?

 

Hmmm....., Maybe the 82 & 101 Airborne Divisions?  ;)

 

D. Mark

[Dolomite_supafly]

Make ALL cops where the same level 4 hard armor our troops wear. I bet LE would be screaming within hours wanting to go back to their soft armor. LE was so worried about getting shot 30+ years ago that they all started to wear armor to stop the most common threat. If they feel that rifle rounds are the most common threat now then they can wear the armor required to stop those rifle rounds. They can walk around with helmets and bullet proof masks too as well as force them to drive police cars with the armor required to stop those rifle rounds. When jurisdictions have to start paying for all that extra gear I suspect those rifle rounds will not be as big of a threat to them.

[bersaguy]

In all honesty when you look at this and think about it, one would almost get the opinion that they are trying to plan for the future more than the present day. The don't want to be going up against these rounds say 10 or so years from now when and if the SHTF...............jmho

[TrickyNicky]

Hmmm....., Maybe the 82 & 101 Airborne Divisions?  ;)

 

D. Mark

 

 

I need to wash my feet more, mine tastes terrible about now.

[Metalhead]

The fact is an AR pistol isn't THAT much smaller and easier for some thug to conceal and carry around. I just don't see what the AR pistol has to do with it. They are reaching for sure.

 

Funny you mention this. I had a thug come in to use the range just the other day wanting to shoot his pistol. Rang him up, and he went downstairs. A couple minutes later I hear what is definitely not a pistol firing. I look on the camera thinking well maybe he had a AR pistol. Nope. He had a full size 16" AR. He had it stuffed in his pants the entire time. In his pants. Full size rifle. Worst part was you couldn't even tell.

 

I think he was a magician.

[Troutburger]

Funny you mention this. I had a thug come in to use the range just the other day wanting to shoot his pistol. Rang him up, and he went downstairs. A couple minutes later I hear what is definitely not a pistol firing. I look on the camera thinking well maybe he had a AR pistol. Nope. He had a full size 16" AR. He had it stuffed in his pants the entire time. In his pants. Full size rifle. Worst part was you couldn't even tell.

I think he was a magician.

Back when was on the streets I packed a gold plated 44-70 in my wranglers.

[Lumber_Jack]

It's very disturbing how things seem to be progressing or digressing however you see it.

[btq96r]

I really don't think this is a big deal in the grand scheme.  Just posturing for the C-SPAN cameras as usual on the part of the politicians, and a pro forma story by the Washington Examiner to get page views, forwards, shares, ect...

 

This was a routine hearing on the FY 2016 Budgets for federal Law Enforcement Agencies, and the talk about the green tip ban was more or less dropped in Also, you need to read between the lines of what Director Jones said (taken from the transcript).

"NOW, I DO BELIEVE THIS IS GOING TO TAKE WORK ACROSS THE BOARD, BUT THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT ATF ALONE IS GOING TO DO THROUGH A REGULATORY PROCESS."

 

So, you have a Senator from Connecticut, who is as pro gun control as it gets, asking a question during a hearing, and the ATF Director telling him in political speak that this isn't something the ATF can get away with on their own, they would need Congressional help.  You can watch the hearing here.  The Green Tip issues is addressed briefly at the 34:50 mark, and the bit from Sen. Murphy begins at 1:08:55 and has more depth.

 

 

On the plus side, from the prepared opening remarks, the ATF director had this to say in his opening statement about the budget request.

In addition, ATF’s FY 2016 budget includes one program enhancement-$8.1 million to continue increasing capacity and reducing backlogs at ATF’s Martinsburg, WV, facility. This increase will allow ATF to add 10 Legal Instrument Examiners as well as additional contract support to continue to reduce the back log in processing National Firearms Act (NFA) registrations.

Edited March 13, 2015 by btq96r

[maroonandwhite]

Funny you mention this. I had a thug come in to use the range just the other day wanting to shoot his pistol. Rang him up, and he went downstairs. A couple minutes later I hear what is definitely not a pistol firing. I look on the camera thinking well maybe he had a AR pistol. Nope. He had a full size 16" AR. He had it stuffed in his pants the entire time. In his pants. Full size rifle. Worst part was you couldn't even tell.

 

I think he was a magician.

Dang. Well my only rebuttal is how fast is his draw?

[gjohnsoniv]

Funny you mention this. I had a thug come in to use the range just the other day wanting to shoot his pistol. Rang him up, and he went downstairs. A couple minutes later I hear what is definitely not a pistol firing. I look on the camera thinking well maybe he had a AR pistol. Nope. He had a full size 16" AR. He had it stuffed in his pants the entire time. In his pants. Full size rifle. Worst part was you couldn't even tell.

 

I think he was a magician.

"is that a pistol in your pocket of are you just happy to see me? No ma'am, I pack a rifle."

[frankmako]

i got two remingtion xp-100 in 7mm-308 and 30-223.  both are rifle cals in a pistol size gun.  so are they next?  i got several t/c contenders in rifle cals.  are they next also?  they will keep on and we need to stay on them.  once we let down it will be all over.  we are at the tipping point.  look at all what is going around us.  they say to buy gold for hard times.  i say to buy lead for harder times.

[JohnC]

Heck, I was at Guns & Leather in Greenbriar one day and next to two Sig 5.56x45 pistols was a Sig P716 7.62x51 Pistol with Sig Brace.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p716-12-psb.aspx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aycq4tz7SeU

So yeah, I bet the .308 aka 7.62x51 will be next.... Edited March 13, 2015 by JohnC

[ProfEngr]

Saw some 308 "pistol" hardware online the other day. Wasn't long ago it was just the t/c single shots in the arena.

[Oh Shoot]

Saw some 308 "pistol" hardware online the other day. Wasn't long ago it was just the t/c single shots in the arena.

 

Lots of folks have configured AR10 pistols, and for a good while now. "Pistol" buffer tubes are not required.

 

- OS

Edited March 13, 2015 by Oh Shoot