What can I tell my father?

[glowdotGlock]

I was over at my Dad's house chatting with him before he leaves on a short trip to Perry, GA. I noticed he had is old .32 H&R revolver on the table with his bags. He got his HCP a few years ago but he never carries on his body but will occasionally will in his vehicle.

I picked it up and inspected it and he had it loaded so I dropped the ammo out to look at it and it was just old round ball from if I had to guess would be from the 70's. I hate to try to correct my dad or tell him he needs to do anything different but he has taught me so much over the years so I feel I should teach him.

I have told him before that those 6 rounds of round ball .32 isn't going to do much and he tells me (my pet peeve) "Well if I pull it out then they will just run off". It frustrates me so bad to hear that. I told him if he were to be attacked by someone with a firearm then he pulled his out that they are not going to run away. Their instincts will be to shoot him now in fear for their life. He thinks if he does have to shoot someone that .32 evidently he thinks it will be the equivalent of shooting them in the face with a .45-70. I told him that I have seen videos of guys shot with 10+ rounds of modern duty ammo and still keep coming.

I tried to make him understand it is about incapacitating them not intimidating them with the sight of a gun. And I tried to tell him the importance of carry and not leaving it in the glove box. In his head I believe he thinks it would go down as follows: The bad guy at the gas station would walk over to him, hold a knife out and ask for his wallet. Then he would run to the glove box and unholster that beastly .32 and just the sight of it will make the bad guy instantly piss and run away.

I guess what I am getting at is I need to do more to try to show him the light. Does anyone have any advice or good videos or something I can do to change his ways? I am just not convincing him. Edited March 5, 2015 by glowdotGlock

[TripleDigitRide]

Perry, GA? Must be going to the swap meet.

[SupaRice]

Join the club. My pops is the same way... I guess that's what happens when we get old maybe? Mine has a decent gun, and carries it in the door pocket of his truck. I helped him haul some stuff to the dump the other day, I'm driving and I look down and his HK USP is completely rusted.

 

 

 

 

 

I asked him "Hey, your gun looks pretty dirty pop. Have you fired it in a while?"

He goes "Funny you say that, tried to shoot a coon that gets into our trash with it the other day and it wouldn't fire"

 

I'm thinking to myself.... "They WTH are you still carrying it!?" Who carries a gun that doesn't work!? What's your plan, throw it at them?

 

 

So as far as advice.... This is what I did.

 

I said... "Lemme take that thing home and clean it up for you. Looks like it could use a detail"

 

To which he of course agreed. I took it completely down for a full inspection and detail, rust removal....  :ugh: .... and I bought him a box of good defense ammo. Since he had it loaded (only 5 rounds also... :squint: ) with VERY old flat nose target rounds.

 

I go out there to shoot with him almost every week, so I'm adding more pistol shooting to the mix and I'm going to just have a talk with him about his carry.

 

 

Advice:

So... maybe buy him an acceptable carry gun? If it's a gift from his son, he might carry it instead.

 

:2cents:

Edited March 5, 2015 by SupaRice

[glowdotGlock]

Perry, GA? Must be going to the swap meet.

He sure is. He has been flying for 25 years and already has what looks like a hobby shop at his house.

[glowdotGlock]

Join the club. My pops is the same way... I guess that's what happens when we get old maybe? Mine has a decent gun, and carries it in the door pocket of his truck. I helped him haul some stuff to the dump the other day, I'm driving and I look down and his HK USP is completely rusted.







I asked him "Hey, your gun looks pretty dirty pop. Have you fired it in a while?"
He goes "Funny you say that, tried to shoot a coon that gets into our trash with it the other day and it wouldn't fire"

I'm thinking to myself.... "They WTH are you still carrying it!?" Who carries a gun that doesn't work!? What's your plan, throw it at them?


So as far as advice.... This is what I did.

I said... "Lemme take that thing home and clean it up for you. Looks like it could use a detail"

To which he of course agreed. I took it completely down for a full inspection and detail, rust removal.... :ugh: .... and I bought him a box of good defense ammo. Since he had it loaded (only 5 rounds also... :squint: ) with VERY old flat nose target rounds.

I go out there to shoot with him almost every week, so I'm adding more pistol shooting to the mix and I'm going to just have a talk with him about his carry.


Advice:
So... maybe buy him an acceptable carry gun? If it's a gift from his son, he might carry it instead.

:2cents:

I offered to let him carry my Shield but he said he didn't want that new type stuff. Meaning a semi auto lol.

[SupaRice]

Get him a nice wheel gun?  :shrug:

[eRay]

I saw my Dad shoot a man with a 32 and lead round nose ammo 52 years ago. Shot him 5 times at point blank range in the chest. The man stood there in shock about 45 seconds before falling to the ground. The guy actually lived. Dad went out the next day and bought an S&W M&P 38 special. Loaded it with lead round nose as well, but he said next time he would at least use a bigger caliber.

[MacGyver]

Maybe you could buy him a nice holster and some more modern ammo?  Or, offer to let him borrow one for his trip.

[dawgdoc]

Any gun is better than no gun, right?  Many of us probably have the same problems with our wives--we want them to carry something, but they just won't, for various reasons.  So you have to deal with two emotions if something bad happens--the pain of the bad thing and the guilt that they missed the opportunity to have a more effective defense.  Ultimately, you can only use reasoned arguments to try to convince them, but the choice is for each individual to make.

 

It is probably more frustrating to have a loved one get almost to point of effective self defense than for them not even try at all.  Like watching a runner fall down 10 yards from the finish line and not get back up.  Or like watching the Seahawks blow an opportunity that literally fell into their laps is worse than watching them get so far behind that there is no hope of winning.

 

Convincing a loved one to get a license and a gun, but not carry it is like bitter ashes in your mouth.  In my case, I work with baby steps.  At least my wife will carry a Kimber Pepper Blaster most of the time (still won't at school), and will carry a LCP in her purse if I really insist (such as, "we're going to a bad part of town").  We all know that violence can happen anywhere, but it takes some people longer to open their eyes.

Edited March 5, 2015 by dawgdoc

[2.ooohhh]

My grandmother put two rounds of .32 long from a S&W revolver(her purse gun and the only one she ever bothered carrying) in a guy attempting to rob the family bar back in the 80s. He apparently died before he got back to his car in the parking lot. The human body generally has an adverse reaction to new holes. Not saying that he couldn't carry something better or more modern, but having a firearm you're comfortable carrying and using if need be is better than leaving one you don't like at home in a drawer. Grandpa was THP so he carried a .357 on his hip and a .38 on his ankle but I never heard of him using either, he much prefered a shotgun. He had one for his cruiser and one for the family LTD.

 

I have no clue how long the guy actually lived after being hit as I was 3 at the time, but a picture of his body laying dead in the parking lot was posted behind the bar until my grandmother passed away many years later.

[10-Ring]

Guess I'm lucky, my dad has all the coolest carry guns and the latest ammo.  He practices weekly and even invites me to go sometimes.  There are other people in my life carrying around a half a magazine of green bullets on an empty chamber in a gun that hasn't been fired in 7 years.  We all have someone like that in our lives and they never seem to want to listen.

[bersaguy]

You might think about different ways to approach him that would make him feel if he did make a change that it was more his idea. Many times our elders don't like to accept ideas from their children but will do things that they feel are more their own ideas............jmho

[Guest tangojuliet]

my grandfather has an old colt police positive in  38 and i asked to see it one time looked at the ammo its old half jacket ammo and i said to him you think you put a person down with it his reply ya i reckon not to many folks gonna argue with an old 38  so just left it at that 

[DWARREN123]

Some folks just do not understand and not just us older folk.

[Grand Torino]

My father was 81 years old when he passed away and carrying one of these in a shoulder rig from the time he got it in 1968 I believe. He shot a would be robber in 1971 that broke into our home. The robber was also armed but one shot from the .44 Mag and the guy dropped to the floor dead. He said it was the best money he ever spent on anything in his life. He was a WWII vet in the Pacific and wasn't a believer in small caliber weapons. So I wish you the best in dealing with your dad cause I know what's like trying to educate my old man about new stuff.

[RED333]

Sorry but you can not give advice to the man that changed you dirty diapers, feed you your meals when you could not do it on your own.

Get him into a class, let someone else tell him what he is doing it wrong.

Edited March 6, 2015 by RED333

[DWARREN123]

RED333 probably nailed it.

[JAB]

I understand your frustration.  A few years back I talked my mom into getting her HCP.  She bought a Kel Tec P32 to be her carry gun (I managed to talk her into that because I knew she had fired.32 pistols in the past that she liked and the LGS had a distributor special 'Lady .32' with a rose engraved on the slide.  She likes/collects things with roses on them so that put it over the top, for her - sometimes it is more about 'knowing your audience' than giving advice.)  She shoots it well and I am confident that she could defend her life with it if the need arose.  The problem is that she never carries it - even though she recently renewed her HCP.  For her it is more of a, "That way I can carry it if I want to," thing than, "I need to carry whenever I can."  When we go places together she even sometimes asks things like, "Why do you need that gun?  We're just going to Walmart."  Of course, I respond with something like, "Well, we might go to Walmart five thousand times and never need a gun but if is that one time you need a gun and don't have one that gets you killed."

 

I am a little unclear as to exactly what kind of gun your dad has.  Is it an H&R revolver chambered in .32 'short', an H&R revolver chambered in .32 Long or a revolver chambered for .32 H&R Magnum?  If it is the first, I don't see any way to redeem the gun for SD use and hope you can talk him in to something else.  If the second, at least it is probably better than a .22LR if you could find decent ammo.  If it is a .32 H&R mag he could probably do worse.  For this post, I am going to assume that it is an H&R revolver chambered in .32 Long.

 

My ex-wife's (now late) grandfather had an old H&R in .32 Long.  He pretty much turned it over to me for an extended time and even asked if I wanted to keep it when she and I got divorced.  The only reason I didn't (he didn't shoot it and had other guns he did shoot) was because his son had given it to him and I thought that his son might want it back if he got rid of it.  I actually enjoyed shooting it because the recoil was so low that, even though it was a snubby, it was still pretty much a tack driver.  My understanding is that .32 Long is generally known to be a round with a high degree of inherent accuracy.  I think the accuracy of the round means that someone who practiced plenty and had good, modern self defense ammo could probably do okay in a self defense situation.  The problem is that I am not aware of any really good, modern self defense ammo made in .32 Long.  In fact, as I sometimes fire .32 Long from my old Nagant revolver I have kind of half-heartedly looked around and the only .32 Long ammo of which I am aware is the lead round nosed stuff like your dad has in his gun, wadcutters and maybe a brand or two offering FMJ.

 

Actually, that got me to thinking about it so I went to Midway to see what they have in .32 Long.  I saw that they only offer one hollow point round - a semi-jacketed hollow point from Magtech - and that is listed as out of stock and no backorder (which might mean it isn't even in production.)  I have fired quite a few Magtech rounds in various calibers through various handguns and have found them to be pretty good, at least in my experience so if one were to find some available somewhere - maybe at a gun show, etc. - that could at least be a step up from LRN.  For a lower powered round like a .32 Long, the exposed lead at the tip is probably a good thing if there is to be any hope of expansion from the hollow point.  Of course, that gets into the trade off between expansion and penetration so wadcutters might be a better way to go.  I think either would be better than LRN rounds.  The only wadcutter that Midway shows in stock is this one:

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/912242/lapua-ammunition-32-s-and-w-long-83-grain-lead-wadcutter-box-of-50

 

The same company apparently makes (or made, anyhow) a slightly heavier wadcutter but it is out of stock.

 

Otherwise, maybe you could start with what he has in mind and talk him 'up' to a .327 Magnum or at least a .32 H&R Mag (either of which would still allow him to shoot his current ammo for practice) and make sure he has good SD ammo to go with it.

 

One thing I want to bring up to you in the short term is a potential weak spot.  The H&R .32 Long revolver I mentioned, above, had a trigger spring that rode on a guide rod that was in the grips.  The guide rod had a plastic 'saddle' at the top end that interfaced with the trigger mechanism and that plastic 'saddle' broke in two (across, not lengthwise.)  As it wasn't a carry gun, I just used Crazy Glue and glued it back together (the result was probably as strong or stronger than before) and it worked fine.  If that is the only gun your dad is willing to carry, I'd be sure to at least inspect that part.  Numrich offers (or, at least, used to offer) replacement parts with the plastic saddle and even an 'upgrade' in which that part was metal instead of plastic.

Edited March 6, 2015 by JAB

[LawVol]

(pics of rusty USP)

 

 

This hurts my soul.    :stunned:

[M1_Garand]

I can sympathize. My dad's nightstand / go to gun for as long as I can remember is an old revolver that depending on which cylinder is installed, can shoot either .22lr or .22 magnum. For some unknown reason, he always keeps it loaded with .22lr. I've tried to convince him for years that he should "upgrade" to something a little more lethal than a .22lr revolver, but (as always) he is right and I am wrong.

 

Last time we went to the range (which sadly doesn't happen often enough) I Iet him try out my nightstand gun - a Glock 22. He fired off one round and looked at me like I was nuts for having this "crazy handcannon," then happily went back to his .22.

[Ugly]

I recommend you buy him a new carry piece.

[Parrothead]

I could never get my parents to own a gun. Things started going south in a couple houses down from them recently. A couple break in's and such. My mom finally ok'ed my dad to get a firearm for protection.

 

But--my parents wanted to go cheap on the said firearm. I gave him a Ruger Security Six loaded with hornady critical defense in .38. Dad can handle the .357 but he isn't always home. Mom likes the .38

 

I can sleep well knowing they have six rounds on tap. I know it will "go bang" every time--i have thousands of rounds through the gun. I'm sure he will buy something in the future but until that day, they have something more powerful than a cell phone. And, given my moms limited experience with a handgun, i would prefer they stay with a revolver........

[JohnC]

My dad told me carry his pistol was a PITA and he really only got his permit so if he got pulled over on

Join the club. My pops is the same way... I guess that's what happens when we get old maybe? Mine has a decent gun, and carries it in the door pocket of his truck. I helped him haul some stuff to the dump the other day, I'm driving and I look down and his HK USP is completely rusted.
 

 

 
 
 
I asked him "Hey, your gun looks pretty dirty pop. Have you fired it in a while?"
He goes "Funny you say that, tried to shoot a coon that gets into our trash with it the other day and it wouldn't fire"
 
I'm thinking to myself.... "They WTH are you still carrying it!?" Who carries a gun that doesn't work!? What's your plan, throw it at them?
 
 
So as far as advice.... This is what I did.
 
I said... "Lemme take that thing home and clean it up for you. Looks like it could use a detail"
 
To which he of course agreed. I took it completely down for a full inspection and detail, rust removal....  :ugh: .... and I bought him a box of good defense ammo. Since he had it loaded (only 5 rounds also... :squint: ) with VERY old flat nose target rounds.
 
I go out there to shoot with him almost every week, so I'm adding more pistol shooting to the mix and I'm going to just have a talk with him about his carry.
 
 
Advice:
So... maybe buy him an acceptable carry gun? If it's a gift from his son, he might carry it instead.
 
:2cents:

the way to the range with guns, the cops wouldn't bother him. I was like huh?

That looks rough. Guess the rain got to it on his in/out's of his vehicle?

[A.J. Holst]

I like the offer of a detail and replace the ammo.

When you give it back, let him know you did a little research and the new ammo is "better according to the internet"

Then take him shooting and see if you can get something else in his hand to "test drive"

[cgun86]

I recommend you buy him a new carry piece.

^This. You can tell him how crappy of a SD piece that H&R is all day long, but show him by buying him a new gun. If you give him a new gun it will show how serious you are about this. It will also mean something to him that his son gave it to him. Like a father passing down a knife/gun to his son. I haven't found anyone young or old that doesn't like the feel of an airweight S&W.