Firearms issue bills for this session.

[Someotherguy]

News flash folks...The NRA just wants your MONEY...They could care less about your so called "rights"...

 

As the infamous George Carlin once said.."It's a big club, and you ain't in it".........

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0

[phiferran]

Looks like Mr. Haslam is on the clock now for one bill.  Not sure how effective this legislation will be, which probably means he will sign it or let it become law without his signature.

 

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/politics/state/story/2015/mar/23/tennessee-lawmakers-pass-right--sue-update-guns--parking-lots-law/294874/

[300winmag]

What happened to the park carry bill in the House Finance Committee? 

[JayC]

Just have the NRA drop their score to F and watch how quick they're willing to pass the bills.  A republican with an F NRA rating is a deadman walking in the next election.

 

NRA needs to put more pressure on these folks.  I have not seen very many gun rights improved with this R super majority in the legislature the past few years.  If they want the NRA support, they should pass bills that the NRA supports.

 

I mean the NRA couldn't even put enough pressure these guys to fix the park problem?  That is an easy one compared to some of the other bills.  Then you have the whole goofy school event deal where a school group can be anywhere and you carrying and then charged with a felony.  I am a little surprised that the NRA could not have a lobbyist at the Senate hearing yesterday and the House hearing today while the governor's department directors were there to testify against bills.

 

The NRA should have been able to get a few things by having the convention in Nashville.  If the state politicians wouldn't agree to make those fixes, the NRA shouldn't have paid the money to Nashville to use their facilities.

Edited March 24, 2015 by JayC

[GKar]

What happened to the park carry bill in the House Finance Committee? 

 

Well, it was an hour-long cluster, where Sargent found himself so confused I honestly think he forgot who he was at times.  It was amended (not yet available on the website) to remove any requirement for signage changes, which removed the fiscal note.  The Memphis, Knoxville and Nashville reps whined and bitched for an hour...so what else is new, eh?  Worrisome is language in the amendment summary that states "Prohibits the carrying of explosives, explosive weapons, permanently disabled firearms, hoax devices, imitation firearms, machete, or swords openly within 150 feet of a school."  Not sure what that is about until I see the actual language.  The bill as amended passed to Calendar by 15-5: Armstrong, Fitzhugh, Camper, Mitchell and Miller opposed.

 

Ed.  I also would be remiss if I did not observe that Harrison came across almost as ill-prepared as Sargent...both of them looked like a monkey humping a football...

Edited March 25, 2015 by GKar

[300winmag]

You might want to make sure that amendment doesn't criminalize little kids playing with toy guns within 150 feet of a school, such as if their home is right next to a school.  I bet this amendment is directed towards the Radnor Lake guy that walked around with the AK pistol and the old blackpowder pistol in Belle Meade, but you don't want little kids and parents dealing with a lot of problems over kids playing in the yard with a toy.

[Worriedman]

You might want to make sure that amendment doesn't criminalize little kids playing with toy guns within 150 feet of a school, such as if their home is right next to a school.  I bet this amendment is directed towards the Radnor Lake guy that walked around with the AK pistol and the old blackpowder pistol in Belle Meade, but you don't want little kids and parents dealing with a lot of problems over kids playing in the yard with a toy.

Under the "imitation firearms" portion of the amendment (which makes the bill) in fact that would be a criminal act.

I "think" the amendment was structured to keep "Reenactors" from staging events close to schools, would not want the children to learn a little history, or see what an actual battle might look like, or so it was espoused to me by an aide close to the bill this morning.
 

SUMMARY OF AMENDMENT (004275):

Deletes all language of the original bill.

Authorizes handgun carry permit-holders to carry handguns within any public park, natural area, Historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, or waterway or other similar public place, including any buildings located within or on those areas, that is owned or operated by state or local government. Removes from statute provisions related to required signage indicating the penalty for the unlawful carrying of a handgun in such areas. Removes the authority of local governments to prohibit by resolution the possession of handguns by valid handgun carry permitholders in parks or recreational areas owned or operate by the local government. Removes from statute provisions related to the replacement of, or the changing of, existing signage indicating that firearms are prohibited.

Prohibits the carrying of explosives, explosive weapons, permanently disabled firearms, hoax devices, imitation firearms machete, or swords openly within 150 feet of a school.

Creates a Class A misdemeanor for any such offense. Prohibits any state department to change, remove, or replace signs as a result of this act prior to the time the signs are regularly scheduled to be changed, replaced, or removed, or are required to be changed, replaced, or removed by any other law, or due to destruction or theft; provided that the General Assembly may specifically provide funds for the purpose of removing or replacing signs in the general appropriations act.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Worriedman

[GKar]

Under the "imitation firearms" portion of the amendment (which makes the bill) in fact that would be a criminal act.

I "think" the amendment was structured to keep "Reenactors" from staging events close to schools, would not want the children to learn a little history, or see what an actual battle might look like, or so it was espoused to me by an aide close to the bill this morning.

 

Funny you should mention that:  several local re-enactors were just last week commenting on their recent frosty replies from local education/indoctrination facilities regarding future events, when these same facilities had previously been receptive to same.

[GKar]

The amendment, which as WM notes makes the bill:

 

by deleting all language after the enacting clause and substituting instead the following:

SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1311(b)(1), is amended by deleting subdivision (H) and by substituting instead the following:

(H) Persons possessing a handgun, who are authorized to carry the handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351, while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway, or other similar public place, including any buildings located within or on those areas, that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality, or instrumentality thereof;

SECTION 2. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1311, is amended by deleting subsections (c), (d), and (e) in their entireties.

SECTION 3. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1309, is amended by adding the following language as a new subsection:

(f)
(1) A person commits an offense who intentionally carries an explosive, explosive weapon, permanently disabled firearm, hoax device, imitation firearm, machete, or sword openly within one hundred fifty feet (150') of the real property that comprises the grounds or facilities of a public or private preschool, elementary school, middle school, or secondary school.
(2) This subsection does not apply to any person:
(A) Identified under subsection (e); or

(B) Carrying or possessing a machete and employed in a profession where a machete is customarily utilized.

(3) A violation of this subsection (f) is a Class A misdemeanor.

SECTION 4. No department of state government shall change, remove, or replace signs as a result of Sections 1 or 2 of this act prior to the time the signs are regularly scheduled to be changed, replaced, or removed or are required to be changed, replaced, or removed by any other law or due to destruction or theft; provided, that the general assembly may specifically provide funds for the purpose of removing or replacing signs in a general appropriations act.

SECTION 5. This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring it.

[GKar]

Coley just announced that HB0173 (Moody) removing the word "use" from the parks bill has been taken off notice.  This committee's status continues to live down to its reputation.

[300winmag]

Yeah that bill needs to be fixed so that little kids and parents are not hassled over the kids playing cowboys and Indians in the yard or running through the neighborhood.  That sort of law can really be abused and cause innocent kids a lot of problems. 

[GKar]

Bill passed as amended, moves to House Calendar for placement for floor vote.  I'm guessing the Senate will await the House floor vote before taking up their own floor vote, so they can substitute and conform to this amended version.

 

I'm still wagering that this, and any other 2A bills that make it out of the s**thole called the GA, will go to the Gov so late that he can veto them after the GA adjourns.  Leadership hasn't enough CO Jones to call folks back to override, which provides everyone involved a nice little safe harbor:  Gov can then play nice with the Chamber for his future ass-pirations, and the reps can go home to their low-info voters and proclaim that they supported/passed legislation, but it was the evil Gov's fault (who is no longer up for re-election).

[JWKilgore]

 

SECTION 3. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1309, is amended by adding the following language as a new subsection:

(f)
(1) A person commits an offense who intentionally carries an explosive, explosive weapon, permanently disabled firearm, hoax device, imitation firearm, machete, or sword openly within one hundred fifty feet (150') of the real property that comprises the grounds or facilities of a public or private preschool, elementary school, middle school, or secondary school.
(2) This subsection does not apply to any person:
    (A) Identified under subsection (e); or

    (B ) Carrying or possessing a machete and employed in a profession where a machete is customarily utilized.

(3) A violation of this subsection (f) is a Class A misdemeanor.

 

Is this the first time a distinction has been placed between open carry and concealed carry in TN law?

 

All the exceptions in subsection (e) are still there, so people picking up kids in the car line are safe. So driving onto school property with a real, loaded handgun between the driver's seat and center console is perfectly legal, but walking down the sidewalk openly holding a banana the wrong way could get you arrested?

 

(For background, my kids had a brief shoot-out in the grocery store the other day holding bananas like guns, which would qualify them as "imitation firearms".)

 

My son's preschool is in a church immediately adjacent to a shopping center with a Goodwill branch. If I openly carry an old toy gun in to donate it, would I be breaking the law?

 

 

This is a very poorly worded bill.

[Oh Shoot]

Is this the first time a distinction has been placed between open carry and concealed carry in TN law?

 

All the exceptions in subsection (e) are still there, so people picking up kids in the car line are safe. So driving onto school property with a real, loaded handgun between the driver's seat and center console is perfectly legal, but walking down the sidewalk openly holding a banana the wrong way could get you arrested?

 

(For background, my kids had a brief shoot-out in the grocery store the other day holding bananas like guns, which would qualify them as "imitation firearms".)

 

My son's preschool is in a church immediately adjacent to a shopping center with a Goodwill branch. If I openly carry an old toy gun in to donate it, would I be breaking the law?

 

 

This is a very poorly worded bill.

 

Sure is. you can walk 1 foot from school property on a public sidewalk openly carrying an AR or AK pistol. But face a Class A 'meanor  walking on the other side of an 6 or 8 lane road from a school carrying any of the other stuff.

 

Likely not much of an issue in real world situations, but just seems a stupid and unnecessary addition to the law. Must be it's viewed as a namby-pamby sop for the it's-for-the-children handwringers or something - much like the inclusion of adding the additional charge of using a switchblade in a crime when they removed it from the prohibited weapons statute.

 

I guess the Society for Creative Anachronism folks would be most at risk, although for example longbows and crossbows, things that could actually be lethal from 150', aren't mentioned, further highlighting the absurdity of any real logical intent the thing might have.

 

- OS

Edited March 25, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[300winmag]

There's not even an exception in the amendment for people openly carrying the swords, imitation guns, toy guns, etc. on their own property that is within 150 feet of a school.  So that means the cops can come and arrest your kids for carrying toy guns in the back yard if your property line is up against a school and a busy body 'concerned' parent or teacher calls the cops. 

 

People say it wouldn't happen, but nothing surprises me anymore out of the over reactive helicopter parents and zero common sense school administrators.  Look at how the cops are called when little Johnny has a swiss army knife or a butter knife that is not being used as a weapon.  The school administrators don't have the common sense to just hold the knife and give it to the parent at the end of the day.

[GKar]

Such is the 'wisdom' of your elected officials.  Like I said yesterday, watching this House bunch run this particular bill was one of the most disappointing performances I've seen.  They were a complete embarrassment to every citizen of this state.  Not a single one of them could find their a$$ with both hands and a road map... but they keep on getting elected, don't they...

[phiferran]

Bill passed as amended, moves to House Calendar for placement for floor vote.  I'm guessing the Senate will await the House floor vote before taking up their own floor vote, so they can substitute and conform to this amended version.

 

I'm still wagering that this, and any other 2A bills that make it out of the s**thole called the GA, will go to the Gov so late that he can veto them after the GA adjourns.  Leadership hasn't enough CO Jones to call folks back to override, which provides everyone involved a nice little safe harbor:  Gov can then play nice with the Chamber for his future ass-pirations, and the reps can go home to their low-info voters and proclaim that they supported/passed legislation, but it was the evil Gov's fault (who is no longer up for re-election).

 

Just received a reply from my Rep., Rick Womick and he believes that Haslam will not sign the Park Carry bill, but he will allow it to become law without his signature.  I guess I am not as optimistic, but we shall see.  Has to pass the House first.   

 

Vote is scheduled in the House on Monday.

 

https://twitter.com/tnreport

[Oh Shoot]

Just received a reply from my Rep., Rick Womick and he believes that Haslam will not sign the Park Carry bill, but he will allow it to become law without his signature.  I guess I am not as optimistic, but we shall see.  Has to pass the House first.  

 

That sounds likely to me. As evidence, he didn't sign the preemption bill last year. Perhaps his view is not so much about expanding carry but more about believing in local authority.

 

- OS

Edited March 26, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[2.ooohhh]

That sounds likely to me. As evidence, he didn't sign the preemption bill last year. Perhaps his view is not so much about expanding carry but more about believing in local authority.

 

- OS

I'd be fine with "local authority" if it weren't even more asinine than the state.

 

Brentwood even went so far as to ban running in a particular park citing "safety concerns" lol

http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/runners-banned-from-tennessee-parks-trails

[GKar]

I hafta admit...the more I read about Mid TN, the more I like it up here in the fingertip...

[macville]

Just received a reply from my Rep., Rick Womick and he believes that Haslam will not sign the Park Carry bill, but he will allow it to become law without his signature.  I guess I am not as optimistic, but we shall see.  Has to pass the House first.   

 

 

I am fine with him not signing it. I don't want someone, who obviously can't understand either the state or federal constitution, to have their signature on a constitutional law. Just taints the whole thing. However, I do believe when it goes to his desk, we need to bombard his office with emails saying that people who have passed tests and background checks obviously are not going to be one committing crimes and our constitution only allows for restricting carry with "a view to prevent crime." Therefore, any restrictions on people who aren't going to commit crimes (and the HCP Yearly reports prove that) is unconstitutional.

 

I honestly believe getting government officials, and people in general, to understand that the words "a view to prevent crime" are in our constitution is a huge step. It makes their arguments much more difficult when they are faced with that and have to give an answer why proven law abiding citizens would commit crimes .

[300winmag]

Yeah the whole 'no guns' signs that apply to handgun carry permits probably are not constitutional either.  Too bad we couldn't convince anyone to fix that problem either, but this park bill is a good step in the right direction.  The politicians wasted time on modifying the no guns signs, when they could have just deleted the 500 dollar fine from the law and call it a technical correction.

 

That will help a lot of people with permits not become criminals for carrying in the Memphis parks to protect themselves.  It's funny how people mix up people with permits and gang bangers and fail to realize that the gang bangers are carrying in the parks right now in Memphis.

[GKar]

SB1171 now on the Senate Floor calendar for April 1 - likely they will substitute and conform to the amended HB0995.  Heard the same thing RE Haslam's intentions - wonder if there was a backroom deal for this one that also touched on the resurrection of Insure TN (noticed that Crowe and Sen Health Cmte passed it yesterday) and/or Common Core (the amended bill simply extends the current situation another 2 years, and leaves the CC door wide open)...  My dislike for the cesspool formerly known as the TN Gen Assembly grows more intense every day.

[phiferran]

Well, our Gov did sign one bill today.  Todd and Green's parking lot bill.

 

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/billinfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=HB0994

[300winmag]

Anyone know if the park carry bill is being voted on today in the House or is that bill now dead?