May need to have upper trued up on lathe

[Ron Padilla]

So I was wondering if anyone has used Binkleys custom gun shop off of Madison and farmer rd to have that done and what it might cost.  I was looking forward to taking mine out with me during this past weekend for the yote hunt but I could not get it to zero.  I have not take it completely apart to determine if I can find anything wrond with it, but thinking from past reads here on TGo that the upper might be off.

 

Thanks

[raildog]

What do you think is wrong with it? You have me curious.

[RED333]

If the face where the barrel is not true to the hole where the barrel goes into the rifle will not shoot right.

Get ya one of these

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/821295/wheeler-engineering-delta-series-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15

[Dolomite_supafly]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/47083-squaring-up-an-ar-15-upper/

 

If it is a billet upper that will not be a problem. Forged uppers almost always have a problem.

 

How many different loads have you tried. Reloading can take some time to figure out what your gun likes. Do not expect to find the right load on the first trip to the range.

 

What caliber?

[Clod Stomper]

If the face where the barrel is not true to the hole where the barrel goes into the rifle will not shoot right.
Get ya one of these
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/821295/wheeler-engineering-delta-series-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15

Yes. The truing tool will be cheaper than a gunsmith or machinist. I have one. It's also useful if the barrel nut won't line up without too much torque.

[Ron Padilla]

well there are several factors involved, but I dont think it is with the upper.  It is a 300blk.  I went out to zero it in the other day and at first i thought it was me, I could not see a hit anywhere on the targe at 100 yards, then I discovered that I had hit the top of the target almost off of the target, but that was after several rounds.  so I droped the corss hairs to bottoming out the adjusment.  At that point I was still hitting about 5 inches high and this was with me aiming 5 inches below bullseye and was still above center by about 5 inches.  These were with a hand load, however I had checked each round for runout and had brought about 90% of the rounds into very close to zero runout.  So at that time I did not want to keep wasting ammo and went in to and spoke with Mr Binkley but he wasnt very helpfull at the moment as we was busy on another weapon,but there was another gunsmith there with him, so he and I started to talk and he felt it could be one of 2 things ther upper not being true or a bad scope. 

 

Now I do not recall for sure if i ever dropped that scope but could have happened, so today I decided to pull, the rail and used levels on the upper as well as the barrel and found that both of them to be setting level and then used severel different levels and came out with the results.  I did think early one that maybe I had screwed up as I have to facing tool that I got from buds gunshop last fall and had faced the upper, but again after using the levels and this was after posting the question ealier I found the upper and the barrel to be level, so now I am thinking that scope is off, back when I had but the lazer bore sighter on it I had some of the same problem, but I was at max magnification, but again I brought the target in to 25 yards and had the same effect, so I think it might be the scope but would still like to hear what ya'll have to say.

Thanks

[RED333]

I would try a diff scope.

[Ron Padilla]

That is what I am thinking I may borrow the one on my sons AR or pick up another while I find out if the one in question be checked under warranty

[RED333]

Hey, are the rings a one piece or 2 rings?

If 2, swap the front ring for the read ring.

[Ron Padilla]

I could try that tomorrow and see what happens, any clue why you think that might make a difference?

[RED333]

One ring might be taller than the other.

[mikegideon]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/47083-squaring-up-an-ar-15-upper/

 

If it is a billet upper that will not be a problem. Forged uppers almost always have a problem.

 

How many different loads have you tried. Reloading can take some time to figure out what your gun likes. Do not expect to find the right load on the first trip to the range.

 

What caliber?

 

I don't know how bad it has to be to consider it a problem, but I lapped 3 of the CMT uppers. I didn't measure it, but had to do some significant grinding to get a shiny ring. Billet ain't magic, at least not when it comes to this.

[Ron Padilla]

the upper I have are not billet just the Ol ordinary forged type.

[crashgordan]

ok, after a quick read through, 

 

i have a few  questions and a few thoughts:

 

did you build this upper?  or factory?

 

see if the upper is accurate while ignoring the optic.

try this:

set up a paper targer at 25 yds.  

put the gun in a rest or on bags and try to shoot a 5 shot group on paper without the glass.

if the group is tight, it's not gun. (doesn't mean the gun can't be improved by lapping, but i wouldn't go there yet)

 

and if you can, run some commercial loads.  

 

i don't doubt your handloading ability, but before tearing into your gun, you may want to run a few commercial rounds through it and see how they group first.

 

had a similar issue with a friends rifle.  he was going to tear the whole thing down and start over.

 

when boresighted in a vise, his rifle would shoot a nice group once on paper when NOT using the scope.  

but as soon as he went to the scope, he was all over the place.

 

his scope and rings were loose.  they felt tight, but they werent.

 

unmounted and correctly remounted the rings then the scope and he was good to go.

 

keep us posted.  

[Dolomite_supafly]

If it is hitting high the problem is probably not a messed up mounting surface. From what I have seen that problem tilts the barrel down, not up.

I would also check whatever muzzle device you are using to make sure it is not being kissed by the bullet.

I would try factory ammo before doing anything permanent.

[Ron Padilla]

it is a home built ar, what was noticed the other day was that even though the shots were high and left they were all very well grouped together.  It may take me a few days now to be able to pick up some factory ammo, but I had a few bucks left so I purchased the wheeler professional reticle leveling system today over at midsouth and going to try what was mentioned above and switch the mounting rings around.  I now have more levels than an I know what to do with, but hopefully I can get this figured out.  I didnt want to keep wasting ammo the other day with bad results, but as I mentioned last night I took it down to the point where I had levels on the barrel the upper and those were right on so I dont think it is with the upper, I am going to look at the muzzle device to see if it has had s strike and then go from there.  We dont have anymore hunting planned at the time but was really disapointed not being able to take it with me this past week end.  Thanks for all the pointers will get back with what I find out.

[Ron Padilla]

as a note I did check the muzzle device and it does not appear to have had any type of strike at all so that is one more item that can be checked off the list.