Bushmaster Hate

[poak]

Ok, so I've noticed in the AR world, people seem to either love Bushmaster, or HATE them. Where does this hatred come from? QC issues? Using foreign or inferior parts?

Fill me in!

[Guest Astra900]

I think, but don't know, that some of the well to do AR lovers hate the Bushmaster because they rattle. I will admit they do, you shake, they rattle. SFW? There may be other reasons. Most haters I have encountered are like Glock haters, they aren't real sure why they hate them, they just do. Whatever. I don't like a Glock, and enjoy a little Glock bashing, but it's all BS, Glock makes good pistols, end of story. Bushmaster makes good rifles, end of story.

I understand if they like some other brand better, but to HATE a Bushmaster to the point of attacking them only proves they're a snobby bunch of dumbasses.

My Bushmaster A3 will put every round inside a half dollar at a hundred yards, all day. I load a 50g soft point over AA 2520, and it has never jammed, and will consistently put each and every one in the same spot, over and over and over and over.....It's actually a little boring to shoot.

Hate Bushmaster?? They need to get over it.

BTW, I'm not an AR fan either, I'll choose my Galil any day!

Edited November 2, 2008 by Astra900

[Guest bkelm18]

I used to have a Bushmaster. I found nothing wrong with it. Great gun.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

One of the main problems with BushMasters that I've heard about was their past inability to properly stake the gas carrier key (and other stuff)...eventually causing gas system issues. An easy fix, but irritating.

They seem to be doing this right now because my issued Bushy came with a well staked gas carrier key. I've probably got about 2500 rounds through that gun and I've never had a malfunction with it (except for PMags...I get failure-to-lock backs with empty PMags, but my RRA did too so it was the mags, not the guns).

Recently, we had someone come through Defensive Carbine with an out of spec Bushy. Even with a downloaded mag, the shooter couldn't get the mag to lock in with the bolt carrier forward. When I contacted Bushmaster about it, they seemed eager to fix the problem.

EDITED: I seem to be in the minority with PMags, most people love them.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Todd@CIS

[poak]

Astra: When you say they "rattle", where, if you know, is the rattle coming from?

...and I do find their unwillingness to feed from a PMag distrubing... I really like the looks/features of the PMags...

[TGO David]

Source: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13532

Dated: 04/14/2008

Original post follows...

As many know, I recently received my BM LE account. Well today I got my first shipment of their super light carbines. (http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16SL.asp)

Since this is my first order, I thought I would take the time to document what I found.

On initial inspection, the weapon looked very good and clean. No dings, scratches or blems. I did notice two things though, the castle nut was NOT staked and the FSB was not F marked. Upon field stripping the gun, I found that the gas key was barely staked (meaning that that the stakes were not actually touching the screws) and that the screws used in the gas key were on the small size (head diameter was undersized). This issue can result in a gas leakage problem. I then removed the extractor from the bolt and found a blue extractor insert.

The gun came with M4 feed ramps, carbine buffer and a commercial receiver extension.

Un-staked Castle Nut

Poorly staked Gas Key

Blue extractor insert, no Crane O-ring

M4 Barrel extension and M4 upper receiver

The small gas key screws really needed to be addressed so I went about removing them. I was interested in seeing how much inch pounds of torque it would take to remove these screws so I dialed my torque wrench to 40. The first screw came out at that setting and I believe that it would have come out with even lighter torque (maybe 36). The second screw came out at 48. What I find interesting is that each screw had their own DIFFERENT torque setting. This leads me to believe that BM is NOT using pre-set torque wrenches.

Torque setting for removal of gas key screws

Once the screws were removed I looked at them and the gas key for any signs of adhesive. None was used. Using light torque, no adhesive and light staking is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

As I said earlier, the gas key screws looked on the small side to me. I was right. My calipers tell me that they were on the small side and no amount of staking was ever going to get the sides of the gas key to touch the screws. So I changed them out for heat treated, aircraft certified torx screws.

Size of the BM factory gas key screws

Size of Torx bolts we replaced the factory gas key screws with

I followed the following steps for the installation of the gas key:

1. Degrease the gas key, bolts and bolt carrier.

2. Verify that the gas key base is square.

3. Apply a THIN coating of rocksett onto the torx screws.

4. Torque down the screws to 60in lbs.

5. Stake the gas key properly.

Degreased bolt carrier, gas key and Torx screws

Rocksett getting applied

Torque setting for re-installation of gas key screws

Gas key getting staked

Finished product

After the gas key was re-installed, I moved onto the bolt extractor. I changed out blue extractor insert for a black one and added a Crane O-Ring. I then upgraded the carbine buffer to an H buffer. Moving onto the castle nut, I double checked the torque setting on it and then staked it.

Upgraded extractor

Staked castle nut

Factory Carbine buffer and installed H buffer

The last issue that seems to plague many shooters is the low front sight base. This one was NOT rated for a flattop (F marked) and so I went ahead and installed a taller front sight post.

Comparison of the two front sight posts (factory post on right)

Taller front sight post installed

Now we are all done and everything is good to go and back together. That wasn't so hard now was it?

[Guest bkelm18]

Mine handled PMags fine.

[poak]

Thanks Tungsten, all I had been able to find on other forums where keyboard ninjas preaching "Bushmaster is teh sux0r"...

Good to know bkelm, I take it you didnt have any of the above mentioned problems on your rifle?

[Guest bkelm18]

Thanks Tungsten, all I had been able to find on other forums where keyboard ninjas preaching "Bushmaster is teh sux0r"...

Good to know bkelm, I take it you didnt have any of the above mentioned problems on your rifle?

Well, I am by no means an AR-15 expert, nor did I trick mine out and play soldier or anything. I bought mine to have some fun at the range and that's exactly what I got. I never really looked into any of the problems that some claim the Bushmasters suffer from. The only problems I had with it were with it having a couple feeding problems with some bulk Remington UMC ammo. Other than that, it ran great, even with Wolf, which is what I shot out of it for the most part. I was very pleased with it.

[alwayspackin]

I have seen all the same problems as Tungsten found. Bushmaster's quality has really went down here lately. Everyone I know has had a gas leak after a few hundred rounds. And, yes I have heard them rattle myself. It seems to be from the pins in the lower wearing down and causing this noise. The pins seem to be made from low grade metal. I could be totally wrong, but that was thought after inspecting a buddy of mines BM.

[Guest Astra900]

Astra: When you say they "rattle", where, if you know, is the rattle coming from?

...and I do find their unwillingness to feed from a PMag distrubing... I really like the looks/features of the PMags...

The upper and the lower receiver aren't as tightly fitted as some. I'm an Kalashnikov man, so it's right at home for me. I could fix it with a buffer, but I don't give a

I rarely shoot it anyway. AR's have never been my thing....but everybody should own one.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

[DMark]

..... I seem to be in the minority with PMags, most people love them......

You are not alone.

I really like the PMag followers.

But like you I'm sort of "so what" about the mags.

Could be that I'm use to how the USGI mags fit and feel and the PMags just seem odd in my hands when running an AR.

Like alot of things about the Evil Black Rifle - - - Whatever is the latest Tac-Cool will be said by the web-based warriors to be the best and everything else is a POS!

[Magiccarpetrides]

I dont personally own an AR yet, but I dont think I would want it to rattle like my AK's. AK's are supposed to be a little janky, but I think of an AR as more of a precision instrument.

[TGO David]

I have seen all the same problems as Tungsten found.

Please reference the post in question. I wasn't the originator of that post, I merely copied it here for everyone's information. The two Bushmaster rifles that I owned in the past were both very reliable, but I didn't know enough about the rifles then to check things like carrier key staking.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

You are not alone.

I really like the PMag followers.

But like you I'm sort of "so what" about the mags.

Could be that I'm use to how the USGI mags fit and feel and the PMags just seem odd in my hands when running an AR.

Like alot of things about the Evil Black Rifle - - - Whatever is the latest Tac-Cool will be said by the web-based warriors to be the best and everything else is a POS!

Copy that. USGI mags have done everything I've ever needed them to do...and they're even better with MagPul followers.

That said, I've never had an issue with the GI green followers either.

[Guest FNandGlock]

Tungsten,

Do you have a shop in Middle TN, I am looking for an AR with the removable carry handle, optic ready but I really want a good rifle. I'd rather pay a little more to get a better rifle. What would you suggest? I will trick it out hahaha at some point. I really like the shorter rifles like 16". 6 Position stock and rail on the handguards.

[TGO David]

Tungsten,

Do you have a shop in Middle TN, I am looking for an AR with the removable carry handle, optic ready but I really want a good rifle. I'd rather pay a little more to get a better rifle. What would you suggest? I will trick it out hahaha at some point. I really like the shorter rifles like 16". 6 Position stock and rail on the handguards.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=181363&postcount=15

Please read that, and then the original post again.

As for a recommendation, I understand that the S&W AR15's are pretty good out of the box. If I had to buy a pre-built AR right now, I'd look at those first.

[poak]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=181363&postcount=15

Please read that, and then the original post again.

You sir, just talked your self out of a sale.

[et45]

Copy that. USGI mags have done everything I've ever needed them to do...and they're even better with MagPul followers.

That said, I've never had an issue with the GI green followers either.

Agreed,I have only used GI mags for my ARs and never had a problem with them.I also have never paid for one either.

[midtennchip]

Recently, we had someone come through Defensive Carbine with an out of spec Bushy. Even with a downloaded mag, the shooter couldn't get the mag to lock in with the bolt carrier forward. When I contacted Bushmaster about it, they seemed eager to fix the problem.

EDITED: I seem to be in the minority with PMags, most people love them.

That was me. My Bushmaster has a slightly out of spec mag catch. I haven't had time to send it back to Bushmaster, but I plan on doing so soon. As Todd indicated, the mag catch took WAY too much effort to lock the mag (even with 25 to 28 rounds loaded in a 30-round mag). Although the problem seems to be a little better after tightening the mag catch, it still is a bit of a problem. Other than that, though, the Bushmaster has run almost perfectly.