New gun for my son...

[Justonce]

I am looking at a new single shot rifle for my son. He is 6 and I have him shooting a 22 cricket already. I am looking at a couple of different choices and need some information on recoil from you guys that might have one of these. I am looking at a 22 250 a 204 or a 223. My son is small framed so I am looking for the least recoil possible and the single shot so I can use the cut off stock I have already to bolt on it. Thanks in advance!

[79troublehead]

6?

[itchytriggerfinger]

What's wrong with the 22?

[Caster]

A few months ago I would have recommended an H&R Handi Rifle but their quality is falling fast [THANKS A LOT REMINGTON!]

 

A fine upstanding fellow liar friend of mine  :pleased: who happens to be a member here as well recently bought a CVA single shot in .35 Remington.  Its the base model and can be bought VERY reasonably.  I was astounded at the quality compared to the H&R.  It is miles ahead.  

 

I don't see a .223 listed until you get to the much more expensive models but you can get one in .300 blackout or .35 Remington.  If you're handloading.....and shame on you if you ain't, even the .35 Remington can be made VERY gentle, even for someone as little as 6 years old.  Think; 158g cast bullet for .38 special and about 10.0g of Unique.  Then, as he grows, so can the load.  

 

The .35 Remington my friend has, is now a .358 Winchester.  A simple reamer job and it's even more formidable.  

 

The .300 BLK is even better.  Even factory ammo should be very easy on the lad AND, if you teach him shot placement, the .300 BLK will put a deer down just fine.  

[Caster]

What's wrong with the 22?

 

People have realized that with shortages and gouging still amuck, the .22 rimfire has become a joke.  The .223 can be loaded down very easily to the same performance level for about the same price, not counting the initial set up cost.  

A 35g Vmax could be loaded to .22 velocities with a mild dose of Green Dot or equiv.  

 

I've never been a .22 fan but in recent years, I've gone as far as to become a .22 rimfire hater.  It's just a waste of time that puts you at the mercy of the ammo manufacturers.  No custom tailoring to your specific needs.  

[Justonce]

Yes he's 6. I am looking to step him up so if he wants to go to the woods with me he and I can enjoy a little coyote or deer hunting. He is shooting full size deer targets now with his 22. (Open sites). Thank you caster for the recommendations. I will look into those options. I came from a family of hunters and I was started about his age. I had rather be setting with him teaching him how to shoot and when to shoot more than anything even hunting lol and I like to hunt!!

[Hozzie]

I will just say this is my opinion and I am not making judgement, but for me 6 is too young to be moving up to high power calibers, any caliber.  I would take him to the woods and let him become proficient with the 22.  He will have just as much fun and I would say that it would be much safer for everyone.  It isn't safer because he can't handle the recoil, it safer because he is too young to realize just how far one of those projectiles can go.  I don't care if you are sitting right next to him, he is still 6 and he will make bad shots.  Any bad shot isn't good, but when you can have a bullet travel miles, it is worse.

 

You can still take him out hunting and enjoy your time together.   I started hunting and shooting when I was about that age, but I was not allowed to use any big gun for hunting until I was probably 9 or 10.   I had time to learn how to be a good hunter and learn the ways of the woods.  I would argue that he will gain more out of target shooting at that age than anything.  

 

Take him squirrel hunting if you want to hunt and he will remember it just the same as deer hunting or any other hunting for that matter.  I think you are rushing it a bit.  I realize every child is different, but 6 is just a bit too young in my view.

[Justonce]

Thanks guys. I am well aware of the dangers of all guns and usage of them. I didn't say however he was going to the woods this year. I was looking for an answer to the recoil question. Thanks to the ones who gave me an honest answer to the question I ask.

[Caster]

I have a 30/30 Handi Rifle and while I wouldn't recommend it for safety reasons, I have loads that would cleanly take deer at 50-75 yards (typical TN ranges) and I could shoot them with buttplate on my nose.

130g Lee flat point gas check, sized .311, LBT blue soft lube, Hornady check, Win brass, Win LRP, 7.5g of Unique, seated to lightly engrave upon closing. This load will shoot five rounds at fifty yards .750" all day long.

Noise is very low and recoil is laughable.

[Caster]

As far as the age thing, there is no line in the sand.  I see people at the range regularly that have NO BUSINESS in the vicinity of a weapon.  Many MANY so called adults are far too incompetent to handle a firearm.  Conversely, I have seen a fair few young'uns with more maturity and personal responsibility than the two adults that propagated them.

 

As a parent the responsibility of defining that is solely up to you.  

Had I a child that displayed both the interest and proper attitude, I would have no qualms about introducing them to whatever firearm they showed interest in.  Especially with respect to a single shot.  The diminutive size of a rimfire doesn't make it any safer.  

Edited January 30, 2015 by Caster

[Justonce]

Caster thanks again. This year I just want to start a set up for him maybe some short range target shooting here at home. I understand all of the concerns here. And anything he shoots beyond his 22 will be in the lead sled for now

[Handsome Rob]

What would you think about maybe an H&R Handi rifle in .38/.357?
A friend of mine up in Michigan has just bought one (to have reamed to .357 max, but that's another story) as a light recoiling deer rifle. I would guess with light .38 loads it could be easier to shoot than a .22 but has the capability of handling even super hot, heavy .357 loads.

[Handsome Rob]

Another advantage, if you've got a Handi rifle with the SB2 frame, you can buy additional barrels as you see fit.

[Justonce]

I had looked at an H&r 223 and a 22 250... Hadn't thought about the SB2 frame though.

[Caster]

Another advantage, if you've got a Handi rifle with the SB2 frame, you can buy additional barrels as you see fit.

 

 

If you can find them.  In Remington's infinite wisdom {ie-stupidity} the barrel accessory program is no more.  You can no longer send it back to the factory for other barrels to be fitted.  Second hand market is crazy $$$ right now.  

 

 

 

I will second the .357 though with a few cautions.  Most of them are on SB1 actions.  Strong enough for the .357 but not for other centerfire rifle cartridges.  The throat on these things too are like a $2 whore.  I couldn't reach the rifling on mine with a 200g RCBS 35-200 and that's a fairly long bullet.  Accuracy was 'OK' but I ended up reaming mine to .358 Winchester (Mine IS on an SB2 action).  

[Caster]

I had looked at an H&r 223 and a 22 250... Hadn't thought about the SB2 frame though.

 

 

Those two cartridges WOULD be on an SB2 frame.  No worries there.  Of those two, I would take the .223 simply for the ease and economy....unless you're already into the 22-250 that is.  

 

It's looked down on by some but a Handi in .223 will take deer just fine with the right bullet.  A 70g Barnes TSX will get it done.  It'll lend itself well to pretty much anything else around here too except squirrels.  No centerfire on that.  Although a 55g RCBS 22-055-SPGC over some Trail Boss would be about the same as a 22LR.  I wouldn't tempt a Game Warden with that argument though.  

Edited January 30, 2015 by Caster

[Justonce]

I already have a wood stock shortened for an H&R that my older son used when he was smaller. I will look at the 223 pretty firmly. I haven't shot a 22 250 or am I very familiar with the round.

[Handsome Rob]

I didn't realise the barrel program was done away with. That sucks donkey sausage! :(

In all honesty I would imagine a .22-250 would be a little much. That's a damn big case to try a reduced load in. Up to 400yds, there's not much a .22-250 can do that a .223 can't, at around ¼ the cost for store bought ammo.

[gregintenn]

Any of the cartridges you mention would be fine.

 

Are you set on an H&R?

 

Are you set on a single shot?

 

What's your budget?

 

Do you handload? If not, the 223 will be the most economical.

Edited January 30, 2015 by gregintenn

[Justonce]

No. Not set on any particular rifle. Single shot was what came to mind because of the shortened stock I already have for a single shot gun(H&R,Rossi ect). Budget ...would like to stay reasonable 500 or less.

[Handsome Rob]

Dude, for 5 bills, keep a weather eye open for a used AR. Probably a poly lower version, but I'm sure you can find one. Hell, a little shopping around & you could build one for that.

Man, when I was 6 I got a used bike for my birthday. I reckon if had had got me the 1980 version of an AR I think I'd have died out of sheer happiness!

[gregintenn]

I'd suggest an AR as well. Adjustable stock, light weight, and he'll enjoy it for a lifetime. He can also add to it, or change it to his liking as the years go by.

[Justonce]

Lol. I figure gun scope and all I should be under 500.00. I want to stay away from the AR platform for him.

[Handsome Rob]

Any particular reason to steer clear?

[Handsome Rob]

You thinking he might try a Big Wheel drive by? :D