2015 Bills TN Legislature

[300winmag]

Will there be any decent bills introduced this legislative session to fix some of the problems that folks with handgun carry permits have as far as the local parks or no guns signs?  It would be nice to be legal when carrying in parks in Memphis and the city government buildings in Memphis.

[enfield]

Like statewide pre-emption on gun laws?

[Oh Shoot]

Like statewide pre-emption on gun laws?

 

Already have that. Knife law, too.

 

- OS

Edited January 30, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[dawgdoc]

I would love to see the power to ban guns at local parks stripped from the municipalities' hands.  Right now the online petition to remove the gun ban at Camp Jordan in East Ridge is only at 80 signatures out of a goal of 1000.  Even when I talk to East Ridge residents about calling or writing the council, I think most people just shrug and think nothing will change, even if they would like to see the ban removed.

 

It is frustrating being passionate about something while being surrounded by apathy.

[enfield]

Already have that. Knife law, too.
 
- OS

Then who is banning guns in some public parks?

[Someotherguy]

I would love to see the power to ban guns at local parks stripped from the municipalities' hands.  Right now the online petition to remove the gun ban at Camp Jordan in East Ridge is only at 80 signatures out of a goal of 1000.  Even when I talk to East Ridge residents about calling or writing the council, I think most people just shrug and think nothing will change, even if they would like to see the ban removed.

 

It is frustrating being passionate about something while being surrounded by apathy.

 

 

This right here is our biggest problem with our system of governance...OUR PEOPLE....Some believe the system is simply broken, so they don't try to fix it...Some are lazy, but most simply do not care...Our system of government works perfectly as long as the people participate in the process...The reason things are so screwed up is solely the fault of the people, not the system or the politicians...

[Worriedman]

It is frustrating being passionate about something while being surrounded by apathy.

I can certainly identify with that statement.  Following a specific bill from inception, trying to find a House and Senate sponsor to get it filed, then pushing for co-sponsors.  Then, working the committee and sub committee chairs to allow the bill a hearing, and getting the sponsors to put them on notice, all the while Fed Ex and the Chamber working to buy the votes to kill it, with Haslam sending out his Turks to twist arms...

If you get  gun bill to Judiciary in the Senate, one has to bear the stripes earned from testifying in a hostile environment.  It is certainly loney when you are the only person to seek passage and there are 50 lobbyist staked up and greased, ready to open those black satchels they all tote to figuratively beat you to the ground, they bring in the Chiefs of Police and they pray for the children...

You spend your own money to drive to that pit of vipers, your vacation as the folks who you serve in your "real" job frown on your activities, get kicked around by the press and tick the wife off as going to Nashville seems more important than going  to Florida.

You stay a constant target of "friends" who disagree on points, others who sit behind key boards and dissect your attempts, (everybody gets to be a critic) but you always wind up alone walking the halls of Legislative Plaza.

With a million hunters and five hundred thousand HCP holders in Tennessee, looks like we could get their attention...I get your frustration.
 

 

[monkeylizard]

Then who is banning guns in some public parks?

 

Local municipalities exercising the power given to them by state law. This is not because of a lack of preemption. Preemption means that the local governments can't have their own gun laws separate from and in addition to the state laws. If you want parks to not be postable, that takes a change to a current state law, not the state preempting local laws.

 

I'm sure someone will be along to correct me soon.   ;)

Edited January 30, 2015 by monkeylizard

[monkeylizard]

As for the OP, I'd like to see:

• The repeal of all posting laws and all carry restrictions in all places. Period.

More realistically I'd like to see:

• A repeal of posting of parks and government buildings by local governments
• A change to make a park not become a school if the high school cross-country team shows up
• A bill expressly removing liability from employers for workplace gun violence (negligence laws would still apply)

[JayC]

How about we just start with not making your local McDonald's a felony zone when the local cross-country team shows up?

 

As for parks, I'd strongly suggest checking ownership records for parks, I've found a bunch of interesting issues with Nashville Parks trying to ban guns in parks they have no lawful ability to do so.

 

 

As for the OP, I'd like to see:

• The repeal of all posting laws and all carry restrictions in all places. Period.

More realistically I'd like to see:

• A repeal of posting of parks and government buildings by local governments
• A change to make a park not become a school if the high school cross-country team shows up
• A bill expressly removing liability from employers for workplace gun violence (negligence laws would still apply)

 

[enfield]

Local municipalities exercising the power given to them by state law. This is not because of a lack of preemption. Preemption means that the local governments can't have their own gun laws separate from and in addition to the state laws. If you want parks to not be postable, that takes a change to a current state law, not the state preempting local laws.

 

I'm sure someone will be along to correct me soon.   ;)

 

I fail to see the difference.

[monkeylizard]

I fail to see the difference.

 

The difference is that in post #2 you said you want statewide preemption on gun laws. We already have that. Local parks are not posted because the local council passed a law. They're posted because state law says they can and they simply decided to do so. The local park posting is not something in addition to state law, which is what preemption would and does prevent. If the state law were changed to not allow parks to be posted by the local gov't, then the preemption we already have would keep local gov'ts from passing their own laws to ban guns in local parks.

 

The difference is that we need to get one state law changed, not get a whole new law passed to override lots of little local laws. We already have the later.

Edited January 30, 2015 by monkeylizard

[Oh Shoot]

I fail to see the difference.

 

MonkeyLizard explained it pretty well. Simply that no local government may enact a more stringent or lax weapons law than a state one.

 

Your beef about park carry still lies with state law, but not because of lack of preemption. Even the grandfathered law exception is gone.

 

- OS

[Capbyrd]

 

As for the OP, I'd like to see:

• The repeal of all posting laws and all carry restrictions in all places. Period.

More realistically I'd like to see:

• A repeal of posting of parks and government buildings by local governments
• A change to make a park not become a school if the high school cross-country team shows up
• A bill expressly removing liability from employers for workplace gun violence (negligence laws would still apply)

 

 

 

I disagree with your first point vehemently.  I believe that store owners have every right to request that you not bring a gun into their place of business.   I believe that I have the same right when someone visits my house.  However, I would like to civil liability placed on the store owner if something happens and adequate security is not provided.  

[monkeylizard]

I disagree with your first point vehemently.  I believe that store owners have every right to request that you not bring a gun into their place of business.   I believe that I have the same right when someone visits my house.  However, I would like to civil liability placed on the store owner if something happens and adequate security is not provided.  

 

I never said store owners can't request that I not bring a gun into their place of business. Removing posting laws wouldn't prevent shopkeepers from banning guns. It would remove the state-enforced criminal punishment for violating that private policy. It would make a "no guns" policy have the same force of law as a "no unattended children" policy. None at all, but still within the rights of the shopkeeper to have that policy and to enforce it through asking the offending person(s) to leave and filing trespassing charges if they refuse.

Edited February 3, 2015 by monkeylizard

[JAB]

I never said store owners can't request that I not bring a gun into their place of business. Removing posting laws wouldn't prevent shopkeepers from banning guns. It would remove the state-enforced criminal punishment for violating that private policy. It would make a "no guns" policy have the same force of law as a "no unattended children" policy. None at all, but still within the rights of the shopkeeper to have that policy and to enforce it through asking the offending person(s) to leave and filing trespassing charges if they refuse.

 

Yep.  I suppose that a store could post a sign saying, "NO UMBRELLAS ALLOWED" and would be within their rights to ask you to leave or take your umbrella back to your vehicle if you enter their place of business carrying an umbrella.  The only legal trouble you would have would be if you refused to leave after being asked to do so.  You would not have violated a law, would not have to pay a fine and possibly lose your ability to legally carry an umbrella for a certain period of time just because of some stupid sign on their front door.  There is no reason a legally carried firearm should be treated any differently.

 

I, too, would like to see these signs lose the weight of law and, instead, simply reflect store policy for which one could be asked to leave or face trespassing charges.  There is no reason that people who are legally carrying a firearm should be singled out for extra punishment.

Edited February 3, 2015 by JAB

[300winmag]

I think that business owners should be able to disallow firearms, but on the flip side there should not be a weapons charge for someone with a handgun carry permit carrying a handgun at such business.  I think it should be a trespass issue if the person with the handgun is asked to leave and doesn't leave.  That works in most states, why can't it work here?

 

We just need to find the right legislator to sponsor a bill and fix this problem.  It is a pain to go anywhere in downtown Memphis because both private businesses and the local government offices all have 'no guns' signs.  Of course you can say not give businesses your money, but when you are asked to meet somewhere for business or have to go to a local government building for work, good luck avoiding it all.

Edited February 3, 2015 by 300winmag

[monkeylizard]

Since it came up in this thread: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/85570-sb0207-hb0240-no-background-check-for-hcp-holders/

 

I'll add no BG check for HCP holders to my wish list.

[Radlink54]

I never said store owners can't request that I not bring a gun into their place of business. Removing posting laws wouldn't prevent shopkeepers from banning guns. It would remove the state-enforced criminal punishment for violating that private policy. It would make a "no guns" policy have the same force of law as a "no unattended children" policy. None at all, but still within the rights of the shopkeeper to have that policy and to enforce it through asking the offending person(s) to leave and filing trespassing charges if they refuse.

 

AMEN!

 

Is there any hope of someone in the legislature championing this position?  Do any TN state gun rights groups or local chapters of national gun rights groups like the NRA lobby for this?  I would put my money behind such a group or legislator....but sadly I see no one pushing this in TN.

 

Until this issue is addressed everything else is a distraction.