Anyone run irons only on an AR?

[btq96r]

Depends on what you expect. Inside of 15 yards you should be able to "point-n-click" a target with practice. From 15-100 yards I would use a sight that has a larger rear aperture and for anything beyond 100 I would use the small aperture.

 

Good rules of thumb for the distances listed. 

 

I do believe that reflex fire out to 25 yards/meters is generally quicker and more accurate for the standard shooter with a red dot.  Irons work too with enough practice, but drilling it with a red dot well enough and someone can get scary good.  I never did reflex fire past 25 meters, however, so my experience ends there.

 

 

If you're going irons only then get the real deal. Something metal, not plastic. I like magpul but I've read several stories of people breaking them under hard use.

 

Concur.  That's one of the reasons I like the carrying handle so much, no flip up spring to worry about, or any parts out there on their own that can get caught up.  DD's rear sight is good against those concerns, but the classic detachable charging handle is as near to indestructible you can get.

 

 

Yeah, I did one of mine with carry handle, just for the older look mainly. Then later even added a cheap 4x scope to mimic the first AR GI scope setup too. See through handle mount, can use irons without removing scope.

 

Completely non-optimum, scope too high, added quick clip stock riser to compensate for cheek weld. All for no real practical reason, but works fine -- the joy of having different ones to toy with, eh?

 

My old battalion commander and Sergeant Major tried that setup with EoTech's in 2005.  Their zeroing at the 25M range was all dicked up since the sight to bore difference was blown out of the water.  They were also having issues because the height of the optic made the traditional nose to charging handle method impossible.

 

I'm guessing you dialed it in at somewhere around or past 50yds?

[R1100R]

I'm running the YHM folding sights. But on some of my others have MBUS and they
Work well.

[Oh Shoot]

....

My old battalion commander and Sergeant Major tried that setup with EoTech's in 2005.  Their zeroing at the 25M range was all dicked up since the sight to bore difference was blown out of the water.  They were also having issues because the height of the optic made the traditional nose to charging handle method impossible.

 

I'm guessing you dialed it in at somewhere around or past 50yds?

 

Yeah, I do all my ARs at 50 yard zero. Works fine for that, same spread as anything else I have up to 200 yards at least, the farthest I ever have got to shoot them.  I suppose the original issue scopes for the AR15 must have been done same way or seems they would likely have been way off at 100 yards and more.

 

I believe this was first military scope issued for the original AR, a Colt branded 3x20 ?

 

 

 

 

- OS

Edited January 30, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[DMark]

Do any of you guys run irons only and have any advice on what to expect? Should I be able to get ALMOST as fast target acquisition with irons with practice?

 

Yes, some of us use Iron sights in service rifle to 600 yards.  The Palma Rifle shooters take it all the way out to 1000 yards.

 

 

Every now and then I'll get a wild hair and shoot a TAC Rifle/Carbine/3Gun match with Irons.  This Dissipator with a LMT rear sight is my current favorite for doing that.

 

 

Its NOT as fast as running with a Red-Dot.  You can look at the results of just about any match and the TAC/TAC Optics folks will have much faster times than the Iron Sight shooters. 

 

Where Irons can sometimes be better - - - IMHO - - - are with longer shots were a Red Dot MOA size might not be the best for accurate shooting.  However, the folks running 1x4 or 1x6 optics will still be beating the Iron Sights for the most part. 

 

That all being said, my "Social ARs" all run Aimpoints with lower 1/3 cowitness BUISs.  

Edited January 30, 2015 by DMark

[crashgordan]

Have many just irons
I believe you need skill with irons.
Also if running just irons, skip flip ups if you ever think you will need to fight with it.
Ideal is a standard FSB on the front and a non folding rear like those mentioned here. Simple

Should you someday choose to enhance your rifle for little money then ad the red dot of your choice.
Currently I am amazed by the advanced micro dot by primary arms.
I have aimpoints and eotechs and the micro is an insanely good optic that you could bet your life on with a 50,000 hr battery life.



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OD2L62M/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687502&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00KB8RQTY&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1J28Q3B94R1TVW0KGKJ2

[Dolomite_supafly]

You can use red dot for distance shots but the key is making sure the dot isn't too big. I own a Millet Zoom Dot and you can turn the dot size down to 1 MOA or as big as 10 MOA. Using it I was able to, with the dot size turned down to 1 MOA, to get hits at man sized targets at 600 meters about 50% of the time and 300 yards 90% of the time. 

 

One thing that I have started to really consider a must with red dots is an automatically adjusting brightness levels. I would watch other people constantly adjust their brightness levels.

[maroonandwhite]

You can use red dot for distance shots but the key is making sure the dot isn't too big. I own a Millet Zoom Dot and you can turn the dot size down to 1 MOA or as big as 10 MOA. Using it I was able to, with the dot size turned down to 1 MOA, to get hits at man sized targets at 600 meters about 50% of the time and 300 yards 90% of the time. 

 

One thing that I have started to really consider a must with red dots is an automatically adjusting brightness levels. I would watch other people constantly adjust their brightness levels.

Yeah that's another thing I don't care for. The Sparc is a 2 MOA which is great but I hate having to click it up and down when going from light to dark environments. I guess though if you are shooting long shots though you have a little time to adjust. I just don't like having to push buttons period. I just want to pull up and shoot. I'm almost certain that my next AR will have a magnified optic with offset irons. It will be more of a fun/gaming gun though.

[rocketman]

My irons fail because I can't see the damn front sight anymore. Getting old is a bitch but my aim points get me back in the game. You gotta do what you gotta do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GhostRecon21]

If you are dead set on the irons only option, DD really is the best choice. They are very robust, light weight, hold zero, and offer a very clear sight picture.



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Edited January 30, 2015 by GhostRecon21

[dcloudy777]

I'm a big fan of A1 uppers on "irons only" guns.

[Clod Stomper]

I'm a big fan of A1 uppers on "irons only" guns.

I'd like an A1 upper. Too bad the only ones I can find are made of gold. At least that's how they're priced. Even the used ones.

[DaveTN]

Other than rifles specifically set up for long range work where optics are necessary, I've never understood why one wouldn't have iron sights.   And that's not just AR's but any rifle.

And I’ve never understood why anyone would want a rifle without optics. You would have to be a heck of a Marksman with open sights to even come close to a mediocre shooter with a scoped rifle.

[Johnny Rotten]

You would have to be a heck of a Marksman with open sights to even come close to a mediocre shooter with a scoped rifle.

accuracy through volume. 

[DMark]

...... You would have to be a heck of a Marksman with open sights to even come close to a mediocre shooter with a scoped rifle.

 

Trust me...., those Marksmen (and women) are out there. 

 

During mid-range 600 yard matches, I've seen a lot for Master and High Master level High Power shooters who will have tighter groups while shooting alongside FClass scoped and bipod shooters.

 

It will humble you.   

[DaveTN]

Trust me...., those Marksmen (and women) are out there. 
 
During mid-range 600 yard matches, I've seen a lot for Master and High Master level High Power shooters who will have tighter groups while shooting alongside FClass scoped and bipod shooters.
 
It will humble you.

Oh I know they are out there; but they are not the norm. I’ve seen Miculek shoot six shots, reload and shoot six more from a revolver in less than 3 seconds. I’ve seen a guy throw 10 clays in the air, pick up a shotgun that was lying on a table and shoot all 10 before they hit the ground. But we mere mortals won’t pull that off. Someone that can shoot better scores with open sights at 600 yards against an opponent with a scoped rifle and a bipod is not your average shooter. That’s a fantastic skill set to have.

[Rhodewarrior]

I've flipped from scope to red dot to irons and back again.  It's so much more rewarding to me to be able to shoot irons well.  Now I keep a 4x quick mount scope for when I need accuracy and take it off when I want to practice the basics.

[Raoul]

Just built a carbine. A2 carry handle with sight built in. It's way too much fun to shoot without any other sights on it. I'm gonna keep it that way.

[rugerla1]

Just built a carbine. A2 carry handle with sight built in. It's way too much fun to shoot without any other sights on it. I'm gonna keep it that way.

I want to do one like that. All the ones I've build have been flat tops but I want an old school one in the collection.

[btq96r]

For those who want to make a rifle from the past with an A2 style upper, this site might be where you can look for your parts.  Not sure about how the prices compare to other sources out there, but figured I would share it anyway.

http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=414

 

They also have full uppers in the A2 style if you look around on the site.

Edited February 17, 2015 by btq96r

[Tempest455]

90% of the time all I ever use is irons with an AR.

[AECS]

And I’ve never understood why anyone would want a rifle without optics. You would have to be a heck of a Marksman with open sights to even come close to a mediocre shooter with a scoped rifle.

It is actually not as hard as you think.  With the right gear and training anyone can get decent at it.  I had never dreamed of it, but one week at the All Navy Matches, with a good instructor and I had them all in the black at 600 yards prone, open sights, with a loaner gun. 

 

Most people are just to proud to learn the right way to do it, always reverting to bad habits they learned while hunting with Granpa'...

[frankmako]

i rum irons on all my ar type guns.  the only ar i do not is my duty ar and it has eotech and irons.  i like irons.  when things go south and no more batteries can be found then the irons will still work. 

[whitewolf001]

I grew up on irons only and have come to appreciate and love optics much more, that being said there is nothing wrong with a K.I.S.S. rifle. If want to keep the weapon as light as possible, sometimes irons is the way to go. I also always run a form of BUIS on all my rifles if using an optic. Two is one, one is none as the ol saying goes.

Edited February 21, 2015 by whitewolf001

[EssOne]

Here are my last two builds. I favor the LMT or Rock River stand alone rear sights shown on these two rifles. They're the same good quality but the RRA unit is about 25% cheaper than the LMT. My AR's are set up for home defense and are zeroed at 25 yards with 55 grain Hornady TAP. I can still see well enough to score almost MOA groups at 100 yards from the bench with irons, so I don't see any reason to scope these guns just for 25 yard application. Suptayu, though. If you're using your AR for defensive purposes, heck with what anybody else thinks, go for what works best for you.


This is a Palmetto State Armory build with added ALG ACT trigger and MagPul furniture. The rear sight is the LMT unit.


This is a Spike's Tactical build of what I call my Short Rifle." I didn't want an ordinary carbine, so I merged a mid-length upper with the heavier government contour barrel and a standard A3 lower. MagPul furniture, RRA buttstock assembly and RRA rear sight, Geisselle SSA trigger.



Testing the handling qualities of my "Short Rifle." It's a darn sweet handling rifle that I'm glad I built.

Edited February 21, 2015 by LMTFAN

[btq96r]

Most people are just to proud to learn the right way to do it, always reverting to bad habits they learned while hunting with Granpa'...

 

I also think the "cool factor" comes in when you have optics involved.  Red dots aren't a new thing anymore, and if you don't have one, it can seem like you aren't cool enough shooting next to the guy with an EoTech, or an Aimpoint micro.

 

Optics also let people think they are good to go right away, instead of focusing on the fundamentals.  I remember when my unit got enough Aimpoint's for everybody to have one, zeroing and qualifying became a chore, because people figured it would be easier with the cool toys and forgot the same fundamentals apply.  I would recommend all shooters learn the basics on iron sights, and when they are consistently hitting what they aim at, then they can add in an optic and go from there.