Feds & Gunshow License Plates, Did you know

[runco]

Did you know this:

 

http://www.shotgunnews.com/network-topics/feds-consider-gun-show-spying/

 

Feds Consider Gun Show Spying by Robert W. Hunnicutt   |  January 28th, 2015 0

 

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The American Civil Liberties Union has always been kinda blah on the 2nd Amendment, to the point that in the 1970s, it was just left out of a Bill of Rights display in ACLU headquarters.

So it was good to see the organization taking up for gun owners after a Freedom of Information request exposed a proposal inside the Drug Enforcement Agency to spy on gun shows

The Department of Justice was quick to characterize the spying idea as the idle notion of a low-level employee that was quickly nixed by higher-ups. Given the scandal involving enhanced IRS surveillance of conservative political organizations, it’s hard to have full confidence in that one.

The Wall Street Journal reported earlier this week that the ACLU has raised concerns about widening use of license-plate recognition systems and other advanced surveillance techniques by DEA and other agencies, especially since many of them have made asset forfeiture, even in the absence of a conviction, a major goal.

An internal DEA document said, “DEA has designed this program to assist with locating, identifying, and seizing bulk currency, guns, and other illicit contraband moving along the southwest border and throughout the United States. With that said, we want to insure we can collect and manage all the data and IT responsibilities that will come with the work to insure the program meets its goals, of which asset forfeiture is primary.”

It’s only natural to connect the dots between generalized surveillance at gun shows and asset forfeiture. As has been demonstrated time and again, the feds are perfectly content to snatch your guns and then challenge you to get them back. The best hole for that sort of fishing expedition is a gun show.

As the Journal reported: “The 2009 email is heavily redacted so as not to disclose the sender, recipient or much of the text beyond a single sentence: ‘DEA Phoenix Division office is working closely with [the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives] on attacking the guns going to [redacted] and the guns shows, to include programs/operation with [license-plate readers] at the gun shows.’”

Those who have followed the Fast & Furious scandal will immediately take note of the Phoenix connection, since that’s where the “gun walking” debacle was concocted. If you believe, as most politically aware gun owners do, that Fast & Furious was an attempt to build a rationale for restrictive gun control, gun show surveillance is just, from federal law enforcementís viewpoint, a logical extension.

The ACLU’s Jay Stanley said he was glad to hear DEA officials nixed the program, but noted “there is unfortunately a long history of Americans being subject to surveillance because of their political or associational activities, and we see that to this day. When you combine that history with a powerful surveillance technology like license plate scanners, it raises significant concerns.”

No kidding. Gun shows are a central, maybe the central “associational activity” of gun owners. That’s why the antis always attack them. The number of crime guns acquired at gun shows is small. Antis want to kill gun shows because thatís where gun owners gather, bond, exchange information and gather strength for the fight. Shows are prime recruiting territory for NRA and for state and local gun groups. Eliminate them and building membership and activists becomes much harder.

And how many of you would feel enthusiastic about attending a gun show if you knew federal agents eyeballing your license plate were making a list? There are probably quite a few out there who won’t go now unless they can ride a bus: knowing that attending a gun show might put you in a government database would deter many more.

Just knowing a surveillance plan was discussed will scare off a lot of people, which nicely serves the purpose of those who were considering it.

So one hearty cheer for the ACLU; better late than never! If they can’t work up the stomach to defend our right to bear arms, at least they can support our right peaceably to assemble, and that counts as progress.

Read more: http://www.shotgunnews.com/network-topics/feds-consider-gun-show-spying/#ixzz3QA13yJpx

 

 

 

[Grand Torino]

 

 

. Antis want to kill gun shows because thatís where gun owners gather, bond, exchange information and gather strength for the fight.

 

And all along I thought it was forums like this.  :P

[RED333]

And all along I thought it was forums like this.  :P

Well you let the cat out of the bag now :rant: :rofl:

[monkeylizard]

I'm not looking to gather strength for the fight. I just go to shows for the $700 Glock 19s, $250 Mosin 91/30s, $75 bricks of .22 and the occasional funnel cake.

[hipower]

Going to a gun show might put you into a government database?  How novel an idea.

 

Who doesn't believe that a general database already exists?

 

I've been told it doesn't and can't happen. I've been laughed at because I say it is happening. Happening every time you purchase a firearm thru an FFL Dealer.

 

Why not a chance, you say. Those bits of information are wiped immediately. Never to be seen or found again.

 

I do not believe that the information is not being recorded. And nothing you say to me will be able to  dispel or disprove my belief.

 

Not legal you say. BBWWAAHHAAAA.

 

Since when has a pesky little thing like legality, a stated restriction against keeping records, stopped a government from doing what it wanted?

Edited January 29, 2015 by hipower

[DaveTN]

The ACLU will not do anything to support gun owners. This a lame attempt for them to protect criminals.

So what if they use license plate readers? How would that give them PC or RAS to stop you or search your car and seize weapons? It wouldn’t.

Is there one shed of evidence anywhere that license plate readers are being used to make a database of gun owners? If they wanted that information it is already available to them.

Sorry, I don’t support the ACLU on anything.

[nightrunner]

Anyone that has ever filled out a 4473 is in a database. So is anyone that has ever even mentioned guns on the Internet, or searched about them.

Can or will they do anything with that information? Not likely until it is a true case of SHTF. Then all bets are off.

[JayC]

While this *might* be true, if it is whoever created the list is blatantly violating federal law.  The entire 4473 system was setup to prevent records from being placed into a central database because gun owners know the first step to confiscation is a central list of all gun owners.

 

4473's are destroyed after 20 years, and in theory never leave the gun shop where they are created during that 20 years unless the firearm is connected to a crime.

 

Anyone that has ever filled out a 4473 is in a database. 

[JohnC]

Under Firearms Owners Protection Act:
 
Gun Registry Prohibition Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926 (a)(c)
 
(3) regulations providing for effective receipt and secure storage of firearms relinquished by or seized from persons described in subsection (d)(8) or (g)(8) ofsection 922.
 
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s [1] authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.
 
[1] So in original. Probably should be “Attorney General’s”.
 
18 U.S. Code § 926 - Rules and regulations | LII / Legal Information Institute
 
_____________________________________
 
Privacy and Security of NICS Information
 
The privacy and security of the information in the NICS is of great importance. In October 1998, the Attorney General published regulations on the privacy and security of NICS information, including the proper and official use of this information. These regulations are available on the NICS website. Data stored in the NICS is documented federal data and access to that information is restricted to agencies authorized by the FBI. Extensive measures are taken to ensure the security and integrity of the system information and agency use. The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations. Current destruction of NICS records became effective when a final rule was published by the Department of Justice in The Federal Register, outlining the following changes. Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9( B)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day. If a potential purchaser is delayed or denied a firearm and successfully appeals the decision, the NICS Section cannot retain a record of the overturned appeal. If the record is not able to be updated, the purchaser continues to be denied or delayed, and if that individual appeals the decision, the documentation must be resubmitted on every subsequent purchase. For this reason, the Voluntary Appeal File (VAF) has been established. This process permits applicants to request that the NICS maintain information about themselves in the VAF to prevent future denials or extended delays of a firearm transfer. (See VAF Section below.)
 
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet
 
_____________________________________
 
Q: What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?
 
When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same-State” residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.
 
There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.
 
Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer’s State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See also Question B3.
 
https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons
 

_____________________________________
 

 
What records am I required to forward to ATF upon discontinuance of my business?
The records consist of the licensee’s bound acquisition/disposition (A/D) records, ATF Forms 4473, ATF Forms 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers), ATF Forms 3310.11 (Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss Report), records of transactions in semiautomatic assault weapons, records of importation (ATF Forms 6 and 6A), and law enforcement certification letters. If the licensee was granted a variance to use a computerized record-keeping system, the licensee is required to provide a complete printout of the entire A/D records.
 
[27 CFR 478.127]
 
Must a licensed importer's, manufacturer's, or dealer's records be surrendered to ATF if the licensee discontinues business?
If the business is being discontinued completely, the licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer is required, within 30 days, to forward the business records to the following address:
 
National Tracing Center
ATF / Out of Business Records Center
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia
25405 USA
 
Voice 1-800-788-7133 x 1590
Failure to surrender required records is a felony and could result in the licensee being fined up to $250,000, imprisoned up to 5 years, or both. A licensee discontinuing business also must notify the Federal Firearms Licensing Center within 30 days.
 
If someone is taking over the business, the original licensee should underline the final entry in each bound book, note the date of transfer, and forward all records and forms to the successor (who must apply for and receive his or her own license before lawfully engaging in business) or forward the records and forms to the ATF Out-of-Business Records Center. If the successor licensee receives records and forms from the original licensee, the successor licensee may choose to forward these records and forms to the ATF Out-of-Business Record Center.
 
[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(4), 22 CFR 478.57, 27 CFR 478.127]
 
https://www.atf.gov/content/Firearms/firearms-industry/FAQ-firearms
 

_____________________________________
 

 
Does an unlicensed person need an ATF Form 4473 to transfer a firearm?
 
No. ATF Form 4473 is required only for transfers by a licensee.
 
[27 CFR 478.124]
 
https://www.atf.gov/content/Firearms/firearms-industry/FAQ-firearms
 

_____________________________________
 

 
What are the record keeping requirements for FFL’s?
 
Licensees must maintain records of all firearms receipts and dispositions, including the name, age, and place of residence of purchasers. 18 USC 922( B)(5) and 923(g)(1)(A). Licensed importers and manufacturers are required to identify firearms they import or manufacture by means of a serial number, which must be recorded in licensee records. 18 USC 923(i).
 
Licensees are required to respond immediately to ATF firearms trace requests. 18 USC 923(g)(6). Reports of multiple sales of two or more handguns sold at one time or during any five consecutive business days are also required to be submitted to ATF. 18 USC 923(g)(3). Licensees who discontinue business must deliver their records to ATF. 18 USC 923(g)(4).
 
These requirements enable ATF to carry out one of the principal purposes of the GCA—to assist State, local, and foreign law enforcement officials in tracing firearms used in crime.
 
The United States government does not maintain records of licensees’ firearms transactions, other than the previously mentioned out-of-business records, reports of multiple handgun sales, and records of firearms traces.
 
The assimilation of the information from these records provides valuable leads in the identification of illegal gun traffickers and their sources of firearms in the United States.
 
Regulations at 22 CFR 122.5 require that records of all transactions authorized by export, temporary import, and temporary export licenses must be maintained by the applicant for a period of 5 years. The records must be made available to United States Customs officers upon demand. These transactions are also computerized at the Department of State and Customs ports.
 
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html