What's the deal with TN Firearms Association?

[btq96r]

It's interesting to note, though, that back when TGO was just starting up we had gained a tremendous member base very quickly and apparently that caught the attention of John Harris.  At one of their meetings held at Buford Tune's offices over off of Murfreesboro Road, John asked if I'd be interested in merging the two orgs.  I politely declined.  We've never stopped growing but I have no idea what the TFA's membership looks like.

 

I admit that John himself is almost single-handedly responsible for a great deal of pro-firearms legislation being introduced over the years but at the same time you've got one man doing the bulk of the work there.  What happens with John retires or, God forbid, passes away?  I assume there is some sort of succession plan in place but you're going to lose the big guy with the big name behind the whole thing.  Does TFA even do elections for the Executive Director position?

 

John used to post here.  I haven't seen him post in quite a while, which is a shame given the lack of traffic over there on their own site.  *shrug*

 

Anyway... all of this leads me back to a thought I've had more than once over the years.  Namely, that TGO needs a lobbying "sister org" that can leverage the size of our membership.  It's hard to ignore 20,000 voices -- and that's just the people who have bothered to register.  We get millions of hits on the TGO forum on a daily basis.  Our audience and influence is much larger than the number of registered members on the forum.

 

I don't want for TGO to merge-up with the TFA because there's agility in not doing that.  But I can see us being a force multiplier behind some of the same goals, and I can also see us being a counter-voice if there is ever a case where the TFA or NRA or any other org suddenly loses their minds and backs legislation that might hurt us all.  Hey, anything is possible.

 

I like the idea of having multiple organizations so that people can pick and choose where their priorities align.  With only one org to fall in on, it's their way or the highway.  Also, having another org that comes from the grassroots like TGO represents, can help keep the other orgs from resting on their laurels.  Kind of like how GOA and SAF acting on an issue can force the NRA to move faster than they wanted, lest they be accused of not acting hard enough.

Edited January 27, 2015 by btq96r

[btq96r]

So, I just got an email from TFA.  I take the time to read it because, with the state legislature in session, I would assume they would be busy with firearms related legislation, and that has interest to me. 

 

However,the email is asking for my support for a 'day of action' against the Medicaid expansion here in Tennessee.  They make the argument that it all connects to Constitutional issues, but I'm starting to get the impression that TFA is just a conservative's only club, and the flavor of the month can carry the day with them.  Hardly the single issue organization I felt I was giving money to when I paid for a membership.

 

I'm getting disappointed with them.

[JohnC]

So, I just got an email from TFA.  I take the time to read it because, with the state legislature in session, I would assume they would be busy with firearms related legislation, and that has interest to me. 

 

However,the email is asking for my support for a 'day of action' against the Medicaid expansion here in Tennessee.  They make the argument that it all connects to Constitutional issues, but I'm starting to get the impression that TFA is just a conservative's only club, and the flavor of the month can carry the day with them.  Hardly the single issue organization I felt I was giving money to when I paid for a membership.

 

I'm getting disappointed with them.

 

When you look at The Affordable Care Act and some of the gun related issues that surrounded it, like the left wanting to start a movement in American medicine to treat firearms as a matter of public health, I would agree with the TFA fighting against the Haslam Medicaid expansion in TN. 

 

We can go farther and point out that the NRA was involved in protecting your gun rights during the creation of the affordable healthcare act law. Would you rather they had ignored healthcare as an area to protect gun rights?

 

Read this: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/09/this-is-how-a-secret-gun-provision-made-its-way-into-obamacare-legislation/

 

Or you can read this: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/wolf-blitzer-nra-pushed-provision-banning-doctors-from-discussing-guns-in-obamacare-seems-so-strange/

 

The NRA got in and saved gun owners asses by making sure that patients could not be penalized or discriminated against for owning firearms.

 

 

 

In addition to gun-owner information and how it must be handled by doctors, the text also notes that the law cannot be used to keep and maintain records of individuals’ firearm possession, nor can it be used to track ammunition. Additionally, the language deals with the price of health care coverage, noting that cost cannot be impacted by the possession or ownership of guns

 

The liberal left-wing is patently anti-second amendment. We have to be vigilant in every area of law making for anti-2A law and regulations being added or amended.

 

So if I were you, I'd keep right on supporting the TFA, NRA and GOA. :up: 

[Worriedman]

I think Benjamin Franklin hit it dead on when he said "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."  The grassroots groups calling for the action succor the TFA in its calls for help on our legislation, and the e-mail explained the view point from that perspective.  You don't like the group, don't re-up.

 

[mikegideon]

 TFA is just a conservative's only club

 

Most folks in the gun rights fight are gonna be conservative. If it wasn't for liberals, the NRA would still be doing what they did before the gun grabbers showed up.

[btq96r]

When you look at The Affordable Care Act and some of the gun related issues that surrounded it, like the left wanting to start a movement in American medicine to treat firearms as a matter of public health, I would agree with the TFA fighting against the Haslam Medicaid expansion in TN. 

 

We can go farther and point out that the NRA was involved in protecting your gun rights during the creation of the affordable healthcare act law. Would you rather they had ignored healthcare as an area to protect gun rights?

 

Read this: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/09/this-is-how-a-secret-gun-provision-made-its-way-into-obamacare-legislation/

 

Or you can read this: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/wolf-blitzer-nra-pushed-provision-banning-doctors-from-discussing-guns-in-obamacare-seems-so-strange/

 

The NRA got in and saved gun owners asses by making sure that patients could not be penalized or discriminated against for owning firearms.

 

 

The liberal left-wing is patently anti-second amendment. We have to be vigilant in every area of law making for anti-2A law and regulations being added or amended.

 

So if I were you, I'd keep right on supporting the TFA, NRA and GOA. :up: 

 

Fine, just advocate to put in a section to the legislation that protects gun owners from having to disclose any info about firearms in the home or prevents the medical staff from asking any other gun questions, unless they show up with a gun wound.  That's singularly focused attention on a firearms issue, and what I would expect them to do.

 

But a 2A org lending their name, and petitioning their membership to action another cause that isn't centric to firearms isn't what I gave them money for.

 

 

I think Benjamin Franklin hit it dead on when he said "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."  The grassroots groups calling for the action succor the TFA in its calls for help on our legislation, and the e-mail explained the view point from that perspective.  You don't like the group, don't re-up.

 

I'm on the fence about it.

 

 

Most folks in the gun rights fight are gonna be conservative. If it wasn't for liberals, the NRA would still be doing what they did before the gun grabbers showed up.

 

I think a big service that a gun rights org could do is to help bridge the gap between liberals and gun owners.  Catching more flies with honey than you would with vinegar and all that isn't the worst tactic.  We hear stories of taking a friend who's never shot, or someone who doesn't like them out to the range for the first time, and how the transformation to the pro gun side starts.  Having the orgs who have the resources and knowledge to help with the outreach without the politics would be a force multiplier, IMO.

 

For most liberals, guns are a minor issue.  Even if they are against them, it doesn't bring them out to the ballot box.  The anti-gun crowd doesn't have anywhere near the enthusiasm of the pro gun side, who will go to the ballot box over guns.  Hell, MDA and the types are blown up by the pro-gun groups who elevate them to boogeyman status up to raise money.

 

 

Anybody who thinks liberalism and gun rights are mutually exclusive should look at how friendly Vermont's gun laws are.

Edited February 1, 2015 by btq96r

[JohnC]

Fine, just advocate to put in a section to the legislation that protects gun owners from having to disclose any info about firearms in the home or prevents the medical staff from asking any other gun questions, unless they show up with a gun wound.  That's singularly focused attention on a firearms issue, and what I would expect them to do.

 

But a 2A org lending their name, and petitioning their membership to action another cause that isn't centric to firearms isn't what I gave them money for.

 

If it were that easy, all we'd need is the Second Amendment to protect our gun rights since it is the Supreme Law of the Land. :up:

 

Not even the Constitution stops them from trying to restrict and revoke your Second Amendment gun rights, so how is another "section" of text added to a bill (that may or may not become law) going to protect you and your Second Amendment rights? 

 

This is exactly why the TFA, NRA and GOA are constantly fighting on every avenue to protect your rights. 

[JohnC]

Most folks in the gun rights fight are gonna be conservative. If it wasn't for liberals, the NRA would still be doing what they did before the gun grabbers showed up.

 
I agree!

 

The NRA would not exist if the politicians would stop trying to restrict and revoke our Second Amendment rights.
 
 

[btq96r]

If it were that easy, all we'd need is the Second Amendment to protect our gun rights since it is the Supreme Law of the Land. :up:

 

Not even the Constitution stops them from trying to restrict and revoke your Second Amendment gun rights, so how is another "section" of text added to a bill (that may or may not become law) going to protect you and your Second Amendment rights? 

 

This is exactly why the TFA, NRA and GOA are constantly fighting on every avenue to protect your rights. 

 

Isn't doing what I recommended exactly what happened with the ACA?  Why can't TFA just stick to the gun rights specifics and leave the rest alone because it's out of their lan?

[mikegideon]

Catching flies with honey, btq? You're kidding, right? I have a lot of liberal friends. They won't listen to a word I say if it conflicts with Obungo's marching orders. I'm talking normally thinking people, too. Of course, in their eyes, I'm a knuckle dragging retard for not blindly following the Dipshit in Chief as well. Oh, and I hate black folks too.

 

I have taught a few liberal how to shoot. And, they have taught me to fire a shotgun into the dark off the back porch.

[JohnC]

Isn't doing what I recommended exactly what happened with the ACA?  Why can't TFA just stick to the gun rights specifics and leave the rest alone because it's out of their lan?

 

What they did in the ACA law will only work as long as the folks in charge of the law adhere to it. That's why the best practice for TN is to stop it in its entirety so we don't have a constant fight in the future. Because they will try to use it against gun owners. They'll ignore the gun owners anti-discrimination language int he law, amend it later until it is useless to us, or remove it entirely. Trust me. It just depends on which team is in power as to if the laws and regulations go pro-2A or anti-2A.

 

Make sense?

 

Now let me ask you. Are you pro ACA? Are you for the Haslam Medicaid expansion? 

[ProfEngr]

And just why would anyone disclose to a medical person anything regarding the contents of their house? Not that the non-existent backups of 4473's couldn't fill in the blanks.

[JohnC]

And just why would anyone disclose to a medical person anything regarding the contents of their house? Not that the non-existent backups of 4473's couldn't fill in the blanks.

 

When people go see a doctor, they may be in pain, sick, etc., and say things they normally wouldn't say. :shrug:

 

That said...

 

We can either be pro-active or re-active. Pick your fight. Stop it all now, or fight the constant battles in the future when it gets implemented here. 

[mikegideon]

When people go see a doctor, they may be in pain, sick, etc., and say things they normally wouldn't say. :shrug:

 

That said...

 

We can either be pro-active or re-active. Pick your fight. Stop it all now, or fight the constant battles in the future when it gets implemented here. 

 

My doctor wanted advice on what kinda pistol to get, and where to do his permit class. 

[btq96r]

Catching flies with honey, btq? You're kidding, right?

 

Not kidding.  It was a friend who got me into guns by taking me out to the range with and letting me shoot his.  My goal is to do the same with as many people I can.

 

Though with today's prices, I'll ask them to pay for their own ammo...unless it's a hot chick.

 

 

Make sense?

 

No.

 

Now let me ask you. Are you pro ACA? Are you for the Haslam Medicaid expansion?

 

The ACA- not as it's written, but the aims to expand medical care and curtail costs, yes.  The chokehold the insurance lobby has on America is a farce.    It's a giant hand-job for the insurance industry, with protections out the wazoo for them.  I would have rather they just expand the eligibility for Medicare or Medicaid via means testing to provide a government administered alternative that would keep the private insurance industry more competitive.

 

I'm fine with TN setting up a Medicaid expansion on principal, but would want to read the specifics of how it's proposed before making final judgement.

 

But aside from the invasive questions about firearms, which I'm fine taking care of with legislative safeguards, healthcare has nothing to do with gun rights.

Edited February 1, 2015 by btq96r

[JohnC]

Not kidding.  It was a friend who got me into guns by taking me out to the range with and letting me shoot his.  My goal is to do the same with as many people I can.

 

Though with today's prices, I'll ask them to pay for their own ammo...unless it's a hot chick.

 

 

 

No.

 

 

The ACA- not as it's written, but the aims to expand medical care and curtail costs, yes.  The chokehold the insurance lobby has on America is a farce.    It's a giant hand-job for the insurance industry, with protections out the wazoo for them.  I would have rather they just expand the eligibility for Medicare or Medicaid via means testing to provide a government administered alternative that would keep the private insurance industry more competitive.

 

I'm fine with TN setting up a Medicaid expansion on principal, but would want to read the specifics of how it's proposed before making final judgement.

 

But aside from the invasive questions about firearms, which I'm fine taking care of with legislative safeguards, healthcare has nothing to do with gun rights.

 

 

I just posted how Healthcare has "something" to do with guns because the politicians want to use Healthcare as another avenue to usher in more gun control, which is why the NRA got involved in the ACA. I also posted how the Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution, doesn't stop the anti-2A politicians from trying to restrict or revoke your rights, either.

 

So why do you think you can just keep putting more text in a law to supposedly protect gun owners when the Second Amendment doesn't even stop them?

 

It goes back to the point I made earlier. I'd rather not have the ACA nor the Haslam Medicaid expansion because it just gives Govt more area to control our lives (and guns). They have already shown us they want to use the ACA by inserting language in the law "to treat firearms as a matter of public health."

 

So knowing they wanted to do it from the start, tells us they'll keep trying to use the ACA law, and healthcare in general, to get more "gun control." 

 

So I fully support the TFA's efforts to fight the Haslam Medicaid expansion. :) 

Edited February 1, 2015 by JohnC

[Worriedman]

Having spent a great deal of time at LP working to further firearms Rights issues, (not key board time mind you), but boots on the ground actually working bills, one learns that force multipliers are absolutely necessary to offset Haslam's Mayors Against Illegal Guns mindset.  The groups who have at least some backbone and interest in doing anything about all this "Expanding" government power grab know each other.  We meet in the halls and question what each of us is running.  (If you think calls and e-mails make a difference, I have some beach front property in Weakly County for sale)  Face to face meetings, Town Halls called by grass roots organizations in an elected official's home district have a MUCH bigger influence.  If you do not have at least five meetings scheduled with legislators at LP tomorrow, you are talking, not doing. (a hint, they do not get there on Monday till after noon usually, catch them on their cell phones as the drive in, if you have enough moxie to show up and get them, they are captive in their cars, and if you are pushing hard enough, they will not like hearing from you, but they know they need to take the call. Too, you can text them after the aged parents are in bed and you get a few minutes away from work and duty to family.)

When Beth Harwell sees an individual in the hearing room and scowls, you are making a difference.  When she sees the leaders of five grass roots groups sitting together, it upsets her entire day.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Worriedman

[Randall53]

TFA does a good job of keeping up with bills that do or could affect the 2A in either manner, good or bad and getting them out to us in time to contact our politicians.  I got this yesterday and it's really sticking in my craw:

 

HBO139 - As introduced, creates a Class E felony of intentionally possessing a firearm that the person knows or reasonably should know is stolen. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 14, Part 1 and Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13.

 

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/109/Bill/HB0139.pdf

 

 

To my knowledge, no citizen has access to a database of stolen firearms. How in the world could a law so vague be enforced? To believe all stolen firearms are always sold by an obvious crackhead in a back alley for penny's on the dollar is asinine. Every purchase of a firearm, other than a new purchase from a dealer, has the potential to have been stolen at some point in time unless the seller is well known to the buyer and the seller bought it new. Who decides a person should have reasonably known a firearm bought was stolen and by what criteria is the decision made? This bill is being sponsored by Brenda Gilmore, Democrat of course, and seems to me to be an attempt to throw a bill out there that's ANTI 2A in the face of the many bills that are written by our legislatures that are PRO 2A. 

 

I thank the TFA for keeping me up with the bills that can affect our 2A here in Tennessee. A heads up with plenty of time to contact my reps and voice my opinion.

[DaveTN]

TFA does a good job of keeping up with bills that do or could affect the 2A in either manner, good or bad and getting them out to us in time to contact our politicians.  I got this yesterday and it's really sticking in my craw:
 
HBO139 - As introduced, creates a Class E felony of intentionally possessing a firearm that the person knows or reasonably should know is stolen. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 14, Part 1 and Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13.
 
http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/109/Bill/HB0139.pdf
 
 
To my knowledge, no citizen has access to a database of stolen firearms. How in the world could a law so vague be enforced? To believe all stolen firearms are always sold by an obvious crackhead in a back alley for penny's on the dollar is asinine. Every purchase of a firearm, other than a new purchase from a dealer, has the potential to have been stolen at some point in time unless the seller is well known to the buyer and the seller bought it new. Who decides a person should have reasonably known a firearm bought was stolen and by what criteria is the decision made? This bill is being sponsored by Brenda Gilmore, Democrat of course, and seems to me to be an attempt to throw a bill out there that's ANTI 2A in the face of the many bills that are written by our legislatures that are PRO 2A. 
 
I thank the TFA for keeping me up with the bills that can affect our 2A here in Tennessee. A heads up with plenty of time to contact my reps and voice my opinion.

It’s just noise; already a felony if it’s over $500.

[tnguy]

Gotta agree with btq96r. Orgs need to stay on target and focused. I face-palmed when I started to see tea party ads about abortion and 2A rights. We need to stop this partisan bull####. It's how they divide us and keep us down.

 

If there is something specific in the ACA wrt 2A, sure, target and address that. I'd rather the whole thing was gone of course but that's not the remit of an organization founded to protect gun rights. I know it's tempting and I know there's an inclination to think everyone in your organization thinks like you but they don't. You just end up alienating those who would otherwise be on your side. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by tnguy

[Capbyrd]

Having spent a great deal of time at LP working to further firearms Rights issues, (not key board time mind you), but boots on the ground actually working bills, one learns that force multipliers are absolutely necessary to offset Haslam's Mayors Against Illegal Guns mindset.  The groups who have at least some backbone and interest in doing anything about all this "Expanding" government power grab know each other.  We meet in the halls and question what each of us is running.  (If you think calls and e-mails make a difference, I have some beach front property in Weakly County for sale)  Face to face meetings, Town Halls called by grass roots organizations in an elected official's home district have a MUCH bigger influence.  If you do not have at least five meetings scheduled with legislators at LP tomorrow, you are talking, not doing. (a hint, they do not get there on Monday till after noon usually, catch them on their cell phones as the drive in, if you have enough moxie to show up and get them, they are captive in their cars, and if you are pushing hard enough, they will not like hearing from you, but they know they need to take the call. Too, you can text them after the aged parents are in bed and you get a few minutes away from work and duty to family.)

When Beth Harwell sees an individual in the hearing room and scowls, you are making a difference.  When she sees the leaders of five grass roots groups sitting together, it upsets her entire day.

 

 

Spoken like a true lobbyist.  The summation of your post is as follows.  

"Only I can make the difference and your voice is worthless.  Give me your money so I can fight for you."  

That post alone is enough to make me skip over the TFA.  You cannot have my money.  It will go elsewhere. 

[TGO David]

Spoken like a true lobbyist.  The summation of your post is as follows.  

"Only I can make the difference and your voice is worthless.  Give me your money so I can fight for you."  

That post alone is enough to make me skip over the TFA.  You cannot have my money.  It will go elsewhere. 

 

I think you REALLY missed the point of his post.  What I got from it is it's a tiring, grueling, thankless task where you are up against overwhelming odds all the time.  Maybe you missed the part where he said he does this using time-off from work when his family would rather they be taking vacations.

 

Honestly, very rarely do I read things on TGO that make me wish we were still in an age where we could remove a glove, slap another man across the face with it, and demand that an apology be issued for their transgression.

 

You unlocked that achievement with that post.

[Capbyrd]

I think you REALLY missed the point of his post.  What I got from it is it's a tiring, grueling, thankless task where you are up against overwhelming odds all the time.  Maybe you missed the part where he said he does this using time-off from work when his family would rather they be taking vacations.

 

Honestly, very rarely do I read things on TGO that make me wish we were still in an age where we could remove a glove, slap another man across the face with it, and demand that an apology be issued for their transgression.

 

You unlocked that achievement with that post.

 

 

Doesn't hurt my feelings.  I understand the point of his post.  But if he insults the people that are paying him while doing it, does it not diminish his credibility some?  I don't have a lot of respect for people when they think that they are the only ones that can accomplish something and that is certainly the way that his post came across.  

You want to slap me in the face for my inference of a post, so be it.   

[TGO David]

Doesn't hurt my feelings.  I understand the point of his post.  But if he insults the people that are paying him while doing it, does it not diminish his credibility some?  I don't have a lot of respect for people when they think that they are the only ones that can accomplish something and that is certainly the way that his post came across.  

You want to slap me in the face for my inference of a post, so be it.   

 

Look, what I am seeing here is failure to comprehend what was written so let's take this from another angle:   SHOW ME WHERE HE INSULTED YOU.

 

I've read it several times and nowhere in there does he make a statement that seems like it was designed to insult or offend you.  I see a point where he makes the statement "If you do not have at least five meetings scheduled with legislators at LP tomorrow, you are talking, not doing." but in this case the word YOU seems to be used in the first-person.  That is the only area what I see what what he said might be misconstrued, and even that shouldn't trip up anyone who has ever written a first-person narrative before.

 

So back to my last challenge, show me where he insulted you in his post.  I maintain that you completely misunderstood the point of his post the same way you went straight to a literal interpretation of my statement about being slapped with a glove.

 

While you're doing that, I can show you where what YOU (not used in the first-person, mind you) absolutely intended to offend him with your response.  Hell, it offended me for him.

[Worriedman]

Doesn't hurt my feelings.  I understand the point of his post.  But if he insults the people that are paying him while doing it, does it not diminish his credibility some?  I don't have a lot of respect for people when they think that they are the only ones that can accomplish something and that is certainly the way that his post came across.  

You want to slap me in the face for my inference of a post, so be it.   

Nobody is paying me anything, for doing anything, my labors are 100% volunteer.  I took another day's vacation, spent my gas money to drive to Nashville, and had 11 different meetings with legislators about the coming session just yesterday. Calling me a lobbyist is in fact an insult, they are paid hacks.  Talked to two yesterday who privately told me they were personally against the issue they were selling, at least I am not guilty of that.  By the way, I did not meet anyone else in the halls pushing firearms issues, had it all by my lonesome, again.

TGO David had it correct, I was speaking in general to all who fuss about what the legislature or the NRA or the TFA or the Muffin Club should be doing, yet sit on their dead hinneys and type instead of doing something about it.

When I mean to insult an individual, there is no mistaking it, it will be apparent to all who witness it, in print or in person.

If a gentle remonstration about the actual actions that bear fruit for a cause are "insulting" to some, maybe the vicious halls of LP are not their best venue.  If you are actually making headway on an issue, your very job may in fact be threatened.  Oppositional research is employed against those who dare take issues to the various committees or Leadership, which by the way is where these battles are waged.  It has to be lived to be appreciated.  

I do it for my grandchildren, there is not enough money to pay for the heartache and trouble that results, you win seldom, but the cost is monumental.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Worriedman