hunting overkill

[Handsome Rob]

I think I need something explaining.....


I'm on a lot of the local 'firearms: buy, sell, trade' pages on Facebook looking for the ever elusive .223 GSR & a HUGE number of posts are folks selling low-end hunting rifles (Remi 770s, Walmartchester 7s etc...) in huge, long range hunting calibers. 300wm, 7mm mag, 300RUM etc...
They're nearly all being sold as package deals with Center Point or Bushnell/Tasco scopes & less than a box of ammo.
All I can assume is that folks bought them for deer season & are now dumping them cheap ( :) ) I get that.
What I don't get are the caliber choices.
Do people really think they need 800yd elk cartridges to kill TN deer?
Is it a 'look at the size of my dobber' thing?
I just don't get it. I mean, I can't think of many places you could honestly shot more than 300yds & probably not to many people could ethically make that shot anyway (especially when I see them at Terry Walden's, sighting these rifles in at 50yds)
What gives?

[DaveS]

Rob; I see a lot of folks hunting with those bone crushing magnums and it makes no sense to me either. Most shots on deer are taken in the woods at 100 yards or less. I had a friend who hunted with a 300 Win Mag and Mark shot a medium sized doe with it. He hit her through the shoulders and we wound up throwing the front half of that deer away. Those types of rounds really do a lot of damage. They're not needed for anything that we can hunt in Tennessee. Just their personal choice I guess.

 

Dave

[10-Ring]

This is one of my pet peeves.  I think it's a compensation thing, usually come with an excuse like "I want to make sure I make a clean kill."  These Fudds think that shooting a 60 pound deer with a .338 Lapua makes more sense than knowing their rifle and knowing how to place their shot.  They also seem to be the same ones that throw a 30 round mag in their AR (usually with FMJs) and hunt deer.  I tried to mentor a new hunter this year who was hunting with a .300 WIN MAG, he couldn't understand why I killed so many more deer than him and I was only shooting a .270 (he shot none, surprise, huh?  I will not be taking him next year)  Of the new fad of economy rifles I've only handled the Ruger American and the Remington 770, I was actually pretty impressed with the Ruger, but the 770 felt like cheap junk to me, the action was horrible and the fit and finish of the gun just sucked.  That said the 770 is probably fine for an entry level Tennessee deer rifle, though I wouldn't hunt with one unless I had to.  It's certainly not what I would be wanting to take long range shots with.

[Bad_Bowtie]

When I was younger and even dumber I started out deer hunting with dads old 30-06, but I just had to have a new wizz bang magnum. Started with a 7mm mag then a 300wm. Then I had a revelation. I rarely shoot over 100 yards anyway. These days I mainly use 7mm08 6.8spc,or 308 although I used a 243 for a few years also. Guess what, I killed more deer with the little 243 and I wasnt broke or bruised from shooting it. Edited January 21, 2015 by Bad_Bowtie

[peejman]

I think I need something explaining.....


I'm on a lot of the local 'firearms: buy, sell, trade' pages on Facebook looking for the ever elusive .223 GSR & a HUGE number of posts are folks selling low-end hunting rifles (Remi 770s, Walmartchester 7s etc...) in huge, long range hunting calibers. 300wm, 7mm mag, 300RUM etc...
They're nearly all being sold as package deals with Center Point or Bushnell/Tasco scopes & less than a box of ammo.
All I can assume is that folks bought them for deer season & are now dumping them cheap ( :) ) I get that.
What I don't get are the caliber choices.
Do people really think they need 800yd elk cartridges to kill TN deer?  Well, that's what the guy behind the counter said...
Is it a 'look at the size of my dobber' thing?  No, it's a 'look at the size of my bruise' thing.
I just don't get it. I mean, I can't think of many places you could honestly shot more than 300yds & probably not to many people could ethically make that shot anyway (especially when I see them at Terry Walden's, sighting these rifles in at 50yds)
What gives?

 

 

Pretty much what x-ring said. 

 

They're not very good shots, so they feel the need to buy a monster caliber to compensate for it.  They're not really hunting deer for meat, just to show their buddies how cool they are.  *grunt*... me, big strong man kill defenseless 60 lb animal with elephant gun... *grunt* 

[raildog]

I hunt with a MSR in .223 and have for the last two seasons well placed shot and all six deer have hit the ground with in 25 yards the largest rifle i have used in tn is a 270 i agree no need for the big bore rifles around here

[xd shooter]

Very well agreed but  I do hunt (mostly) with a Rem. 700 in 7mm Rem Mag. It was my late brothers rifle & I do well with it.

 

Now with that being said I load all centerfire rounds that I shoot. The 7 mag I load with a 150gr projectile with IMR 4350 powder barely above minimum load (from Lyman 49th). It don't bruise my shoulder & I can fire it all day & keep 5 shots in 1/2" at 150 yrds.  I normally don't need any longer distance than that.

.

Now if I go into the woods around my house I normally take a levergun. I do sometimes overkill it with the 45-70 :)

 

It literally scares me to see all these inexperienced shooters break out these heavy magnum rounds out 1 time a year & try to hunt with them.

Edited January 21, 2015 by xd shooter

[Caster]

Extra long magnums are compensation for super short minimums elsewhere in the hunters list of tools.

[felinesNfreedom]

All you guys are compensating if you use a rifle, Bow is where it's at.... and not a crossbow. :stir:

[nightrunner]

Unfortunately I don't deer hunt as my dad was more into small game and bird and I no longer have access to land. But I still know 90%+ of deer killed in the southeast is inside of 100 yards. For that a .30/30 or .243 is just fine. The reason for those ultra magnums is the same as .500S&W, it's all about the biggest and most powerful. A .44mag or hot ,45colt will do all the practical application of a .500 with much less recoil.


I read an article talking about elephant hunting in Africa. They did some testing in actual animals and the .45/70 with hot loads penetrated MORE than a .458Lott which is the same size bullet but higher velocity.

Just because something is bigger and badder doesn't mean it's bettter for a particular application.

[gregintenn]

It is the same reason those guys drive heavy duty diesel trucks. They're making up for inadequacies in other areas.

 

As far as selling them after deer season, I used to supplement my income by purchasing these steeply discounted rifles, shuffling them, and selling them back to basically the same guys right before the next year's deer season. It seems that the internet has taken the fun, and most of the profit out of that venture. I also learned that might not be totally legal.

Edited January 21, 2015 by gregintenn

[mike243]

I see bows and guns being sold after season closes or gun opens, it may be folks trying different caliburs out and deciding they dont care for them. I have killed a lot of deer with my 243 but have passed it to my son. I have had a winchester 300wm for about 10 years and use it when I have a chance to hunt big fields. My prefered is my savage 50 cal muzzle loader. I have a hankering for a 308 for some reason and never having owned 1 might start looking. I dont sell guns but also dont buy many and they are hunting guns not collector grade. folks buy stuff on credit cards then have to pay them off at some point and time,they loose somebody else wins

[Wingshooter]

I like hunting with different calibers. I'll use my bow, 44mag handgun, 243, 30-30 lever, 30-06 or 300H&H mag. I'd like to own a win70 338wm someday for an Alaskan trip, but I would not feel bad shooting a TN deer with it. Dead is dead, and they all just punch a hole through the lungs if the shot is good. I really prefer my bow, but I enjoy exercising the mags every once in a while. That said, I've killed the most deer with my 50cal muzzleloader.

I agree, I have no desire to use a budget rifle with low-end scope in a hot caliber though.

[DaveS]

When I was younger and even dumber I started out deer hunting with dads old 30-06, but I just had to have a new wizz bang magnum. Started with a 7mm mag then a 300wm. Then I had a revelation. I rarely shoot over 100 yards anyway. These days I mainly use 7mm08 6.8spc,or 308 although I used a 243 for a few years also. Guess what, I killed more deer with the little 243 and I wasnt broke or bruised from shooting it.

All those calibers you named are fine deer cartridges. When I ran my Taxidermy shop, You would not believe the damaged junk people brought to me to mount that they harvested with a magnum cartridge. The look on their faces was priceless when I told them now much it would cost to repair the "damage", and worse yet, when I told them it couldn't be mounted.

 

Dave

[DaveS]

All you guys are compensating if you use a rifle, Bow is where it's at.... and not a crossbow. :stir:

I'd love to "bowhunt" again, but I can't due to a disability....with me...Crossbow is where it's at. But guess what, using a crossbow isn't any better than a high tech Compound, except a compound is much easier to handle and re-load in a climbing stand. Just my :2cents:

 

Dave

Edited January 22, 2015 by DaveS

[Handsome Rob]

Real men use Real bows ;)

[felinesNfreedom]

I'd love to "bowhunt" again, but I can't due to a disability....with me...Crossbow is where it's at. But guess what, using a crossbow isn't any better than a high tech Compound, except a compound is much easier to handle and re-load in a climbing stand. Just my :2cents:

 

Dave

 

 

Oh no, I agree. Crossbows serve a purpose and are a pain in the butt to reload in a tree.

[felinesNfreedom]

Real men use Real bows ;)

 

 

My wife's grandfather gave me one of those a couple years ago. I still have never tried to shoot it. Do you actually hunt with it? What is the effective distance on something like that?

[gjohnsoniv]

I traded a guy a couple years ago a 300 Win Mag I had right before deer season. Guy said he wanted a larger caliber rifle. Couple weeks go by and I got an email from him asking if I wanted to trade again. Said the rifle was "too much." Guess he didn't listen when I told him that earlier.

Edited January 23, 2015 by gjohnsoniv

[Handsome Rob]

My wife's grandfather gave me one of those a couple years ago. I still have never tried to shoot it. Do you actually hunt with it? What is the effective distance on something like that?

Yep! Killed a black bear in Quebec last June with this bow & a stone point.
That particular bow is an osage selfbow I built & is as primitive as it gets. I'd be comfortable taking a shot on game out to 15yds or so.
I mostly bowhunt with a modern recurve or longbow & I'm quite comfortable at 25yds.
I spent most of last summer, however, practicing at longer ranges ready for Colorado Elk & I was totally at home shooting to 40yds.
Just to be anecdotal; the selfbow draws 60# at my draw & shooting a 715gn, flint pointed arrow, still manages around 155fps.
Blew completely thru the bear ;) Edited January 22, 2015 by robtattoo

[felinesNfreedom]

Yep! Killed a black bear in Quebec last June with this bow & a stone point.
That particular bow is an osage selfbow I built & is as primitive as it gets. I'd be comfortable taking a shot on game out to 15yds or so.
I mostly bowhunt with a modern recurve or longbow & I'm quite comfortable at 25yds.
I spent most of last summer, however, practicing at longer ranges ready for Colorado Elk & I was totally at home shooting to 40yds.
Just to be anecdotal; the selfbow draws 60# at my draw & shooting a 715gn, flint pointed arrow, still manages around 155fps.
Blew completely thru the bear ;)

 

 

That's pretty impressive to put it through the bear. 40 yards is a hell of a shot escpecially with something like that. I don't even like shooting my compound at 40 yards and it shoots around 300fps. I like the 30 yards and under shot just to be sure I make an ethical kill. Does that cost me deer in the long run, yes but I don't mind it. I don't like to shoot unless I know it's going to put the deer down.

[felinesNfreedom]

Yep! Killed a black bear in Quebec last June with this bow & a stone point.
That particular bow is an osage selfbow I built & is as primitive as it gets. I'd be comfortable taking a shot on game out to 15yds or so.
I mostly bowhunt with a modern recurve or longbow & I'm quite comfortable at 25yds.
I spent most of last summer, however, practicing at longer ranges ready for Colorado Elk & I was totally at home shooting to 40yds.
Just to be anecdotal; the selfbow draws 60# at my draw & shooting a 715gn, flint pointed arrow, still manages around 155fps.
Blew completely thru the bear ;)

 

 

That's pretty impressive to put it through the bear. 40 yards is a hell of a shot escpecially with something like that. I don't even like shooting my compound at 40 yards and it shoots around 300fps. I like the 30 yards and under shot just to be sure I make an ethical kill. Does that cost me deer in the long run, yes but I don't mind it. I don't like to shoot unless I know it's going to put the deer down.

[Handsome Rob]

Florida hog.
I built the bow from a piece of Ipe deck board & bamboo flooring.....

Texas feral goat, 58# Pronghorn longbow....

Namibia '08, Black Wildebeest....

Warthog & Springbok from the same trip....

[Handsome Rob]

I really prefer my shots as close as possible, preferably under 20yds, but I didn't figure I'd be able to get that close on an elk in open country! Normally I only practice out to 25 or so, but honestly, shooting instinctive with no sights, I don't really let distance bother me. I either know I can or can't make the shoot.

[peejman]

Florida hog.
I built the bow from a piece of Ipe deck board & bamboo flooring.....
 

 

 

Wow.  That's seriously impressive.  :up: