Hypothetical; SBR / Removable stock / State line crossing / legality?

[Guest mechanically]

So, I've got a Scorpion Evo. It has a 7ish inch barrel. 

 

 

 

I am considering SBRing it, and using the stock designed for it.

 

*Note, these stocks aren't available yet, as there's a question about the 922(aargh) portion of the situation. CZ is planning on offering the folding stock for legal SBRing if that is resolved. Here's what that may look like. 

 

 

 

So, here's the question;

 

If I SBR it, then I technically have to notify someone (ATF? A sheriff in GA? My wife? Can't remember...) if I cross state lines with it. (I live in Chattanooga, and have many genteel friends to the south.)

 

However, the configuration of the Evo stock allows tool-less removal of the stock in about .8 seconds. 

 

If there's no stock on the device as it saunters down to our genteel southern neighbor state, am I in violation of both letter and intent of the law?

 

I think my answer is; "Once an SBR, always an SBR, even if you take the stock off and paint UGA red, and give it a glass to peach iced tea" when it comes to crossing a state line?

 

Does anyone have information to the contrary? 

Edited January 18, 2015 by mechanically

[c.a.willard]

Once the receiver is a SBR it is a SBR until you submit to have it removed from the registry.

[Oh Shoot]

I've looked into that as was considering SBRing what started as a pistol. It's my understanding that as long as it has a short barrel on it, or even if you have the short barrel with you, it stays an SBR even without a stock.

 

Though you could take it out of NFA purview by putting it in GCA condition with 16" barrel and stock and not possessing the short barrel, it can't go back to GCA pistol condition by simply removing the stock.

 

This seems to be an exception to the "first a pistol, can be rifle, or back to pistol" for normal GCA firearms, as you have created a new discrete rifle by SBRing it, and if "first a rifle, must stay a rifle."

 

(note: this exact question is not answered in the ATF FAQs, but seems to be the situation when you read all the others)

 

Once the receiver is a SBR it is a SBR until you submit to have it removed from the registry.

 

Sorry, but I know that's not so. You can take it out of NFA purview, temporarily or permanently, without notifying ATF at all. It is "recommended" to do so, but not required.

 

"Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?

    There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax."

 

"Q: Who is responsible for notifying the NFA Branch when I transfer the GCA firearm to a FFL or another individual?

    There is no requirement that the transferor or transferee of a GCA firearm notify the NFA branch of a transfer or that either party determine whether the firearm was previously registered under the NFA. There is no also no requirement for the registrant or possessor of a NFA firearm to notify ATF of the removal of features that caused the firearm to be subject to the NFA; however, ATF recommends the owner notify the NFA Branch in writing if a firearm is permanently removed from the NFA."

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html#atf-notification

 

 

 

- OS

Edited January 18, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[c.a.willard]

learn something new every day.

[itchytriggerfinger]

I'm new to NFA and thinking of doing my first SBR as well.  Just to get some clarification, I live in TN and have many friends in KY.  Do I have to notify someone if I want to take my SBR to KY to shoot at a friend's range?  If so, does the same rule hold true for silencers?

[Oh Shoot]

I'm new to NFA and thinking of doing my first SBR as well.  Just to get some clarification, I live in TN and have many friends in KY.  Do I have to notify someone if I want to take my SBR to KY to shoot at a friend's range?  If so, does the same rule hold true for silencers?

 

Yes, there is a form you need to file with ATF for approval to cross state lines with an NFA firearm. Is is not required for silencers, though.

 

Dolomite can fill in the details.

 

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

You realize you cannot SBR that unless it has the required US made parts. And I have not seen any retailers sling enough parts the meet the required numbers. And it takes a lot more than just adding a US made stock. Considering the grip and forearm appear to be molded into the receiver that prevents those from being replaced as well.

I know no one has been charged with a violation of 922r but this, at this time, would be pretty easy to tell it is in violation of 922r because there are not enough parts in the market to make it legal to SBR. I went through the same questions and answers with the ATF when I SBRd an AK pistol. They told me that I MUST have the correct part count or I would be in violation of 922r. Again, not saying you would ever be caught but if so that is some pretty serious penalties.

The form to cross state lines can be filled out a year at a time. You can list the dates from January 1 to December 31. Pretty easy to fill out and I think, but not positive, they can be eFiled now. I am just unsure if you can only eFile the form on eFiled firearms.

[Capbyrd]

 

 

*Note, these stocks aren't available yet, as there's a question about the 922(aargh) portion of the situation. CZ is planning on offering the folding stock for legal SBRing if that is resolved. Here's what that may look like. 

 

 

 

You realize you cannot SBR that unless it has the required US made parts. And I have not seen any retailers sling enough parts the meet the required numbers. And it takes a lot more than just adding a US made stock. Considering the grip and forearm appear to be molded into the receiver that prevents those from being replaced as well.

I know no one has been charged with a violation of 922r but this, at this time, would be pretty easy to tell it is in violation of 922r because there are not enough parts in the market to make it legal to SBR. I went through the same questions and answers with the ATF when I SBRd an AK pistol. They told me that I MUST have the correct part count or I would be in violation of 922r. Again, not saying you would ever be caught but if so that is some pretty serious penalties.

The form to cross state lines can be filled out a year at a time. You can list the dates from January 1 to December 31. Pretty easy to fill out and I think, but not positive, they can be eFiled now. I am just unsure if you can only eFile the form on eFiled firearms.

 

 

He's aware.  That's why he mentioned it in his first post. 

[Guest mechanically]

As always, thanks for the assist!

[jtmaze]

This is why I don't do NFA weapons. No matter how much fun.


JTM
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