The reason why I carry

[saintsfanbrian]

Warning, this story isn't for the faint of heart.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp

Read the article. This is a true story and one of the reasons why I carry. I would absolutely die if I found out this happened to anyone I know and that they could have defended themselves had they had the proper protection with them at the time.

Oh, and here again, no national outrage for the reasons that the article points out.

I did have to send them a comment on their editorial part of the article where they talk about this story not having a compelling enough reason to be "national" news. Basically I called them on their bias because this case is not that dissimilar from the Duke case only what happened to these two individuals was 1000% worse.

[shaftbass]

Also discussed here: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616

[saintsfanbrian]

Thanks Reef for showing me the error of my ways. I had forgotten about that thread, but then again, I did get to "tell off" the writers at Snopes.

[Punisher84]

I would love to see punishment fit the crime in this case. they all deserve to be tortured, shot, hung, several other horrible things I won't even venture to go into here. It's amazing Don Imus calling some lousy basketball players "nappy headed hos" is worthy of national attention and the "reverend" sharpton and Jesse "love to see him drug behind a car" jackson can spew their racist propaganda, but these two kids( kids, hell they were my age) are brutally raped,tortured, and murdered and no one screams for them. Where is the outrage? Where is the call for the death penalty?! You wanna talk about racism?! I'm gonna let this go before I go straight the hell off.

[Guest Boomhower]

My blood boilth over. There's only a few things in this world that make me sick, and things like this is one of the main ones. They will be tortured. Eternally! You can take that to the bank.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

They will be tortured. Eternally! You can take that to the bank.

Yes they will! That is one thing in this world that is for sure.

[dkd83]

I am of two minds regarding these despicable people:

On the one hand, I hope that these people know now or will come to know Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

On the other hand, I demand that our government place a fitting punishment on these individuals, a punishment that will insure that they never have the ability or opportunity to perform these horrendous acts again.

The only true and defensible purpose for the death penalty is to guarantee that heinous criminals can never duplicate their previous atrocious acts.

[Guest mrnord]

Not too many things make me phyically ill...

[Guest looneeetunes]

i am with you ssstactical. i believe they should get the death penalty, but first they should have the same torture and death they imposed on these kids. the guy was a distant nephew of a co-worker of mine. i dont understand what could go thru a human beings mind ( maybe the prob. there, less than an human) to do those types of things to another. i am of the mind an eye for an eye in that type of instance.

[Guest Ghostrider]

IMO - the only thing that connects these people to the human race is walking upright and speaking (sort of) a language, there the similarities end.

Seeing that the state took 16 years to kill Workman, and knowing that every bleeding heart, uninformed do-gooder on the planet will come to the defense of these "under priviledged youths", they will not learn anything from being convicted nor being killed. They don't have enough developed brain cells to make the connection between cause and effect. Nor will their executions serve as an example to other sub-humans because the cause (the crime) is too far removed from the effect (execution).

So does that mean we should not execute them. NO!

We certainly should, in public, and as messily as possible. It should be like the superbowl, with a pre-execution warm up detailing each one's life of crime (you don't just start at murder) gang affiliations, etc, etc, etc. And not slanted to make you sympathetic to the criminal, but just the facts. Then do a bio of each victim, showcasing their potentials and the good they did with the time they had. And then recounting ever fact and facet of the crime.

At that point, it's time for the execution. Strap them to a post, bring out the firing squad (I'd be on it!) Blindfold them (required) and then wait. Anywhere from 1 minute to 1 hour. Make them and their families understand what that TINY bit of torture is like. Make the crooks who want to emulate them hear them scream for mercy, for god, for mama, for death. And then blow them away and leave the cameras on them for a good long time so everyone can see them stop all vital functions. Can see what the wages of murder are. Then the death penalty serves its intended purpose. It WILL deter others from murdering, raping and torturing.

Does this sound horrible? YES

Does it sound uncivilized? YES

Are these criminals civilized? NO

Do they deserve better? NO

Do their families deserve better? NO

But most importantly...

Would it work? Yes

But, what do I know? I'm just a paranoid geek with a gun.

[Guest Len]

1) The people who did this deserve to die a slow horrible death.

2) The people who did this then deserve to serve an eternity on the wrong side of the River Styx.

3) That said, and I know I'm gonna get grief for this, I don't think the state should be in the business of killing people (except in the defense of the state at time of war) The state should set a higher standard. Public brutal executions did nothing to stem the violence of the old west, there is little to no evidence that capital punishment serves as a deterrent to anything today, CP costs WAY more than throwing someone in a hole for life, states without CP often have lower murder rates than states with CP, yada, yada, yada...

4) Here's a thought: Capital Punishment would be legal, but the law would say this:

"5 years of from the date of conviction, the nearest surviving family member of the victim would be asked if they wanted the murderer executed or spend the remainder of his/her life behind bars. If the victim answers that they wish to see the murderer executed, then the state would arrange for the execution, but the family member would have to push the button/insert the needle/pull the switch."

I wonder what that would do to the execution rate?

[saintsfanbrian]

Personally, I think the decline of this country started when criminals got MORE rights than victims. I am all for a right to a speedy trial, right to an attorney, right to remain silent. I am also for a duty to a speedy sentence, a duty to defend the victims with the same voracity that we do the perpetrators.

Lets see, I think it was close to 20 years on the Workman deal. I personally think that there should be a TRUE 3 strikes your out clause.

You get a trial and loose - that's strike 1

You appeal and loose - that's strike 2

You appeal that and loose - that's strike 3 and on capital cases - you have 30 days to get any affairs in order because on day 31 you will be taken to "Court Square" where you will be hanged by the neck until dead. It worked in the olden days of this country.

Here is the problem though. If people know they are going to die if they are convicted of a crime of rape, they are less likely to let their victim live because the victim can identify them. Then again, the more executions that are carried out in a timely manner, might slow down some of the crime rate.

I am also in favor of putting back the stocks. Making people do time there for things such as shoplifting, etc. Public humiliation works. Bring back the days of "Hard" time. Not this pansy three meals a day, cable TV, Air Conditioning, Heat, Exercise rooms, Libraries, schools, etc. What about 3 warms and a cot. You want a book? Here's a bible/Qu'ran/Tora for you. You want to watch TV? I hope you can see the one in the guards break room from your cell. Want to exercise? Well, the road crew needs some one to move rocks. You want to work? Fine, you can work on the road crew/farm/factory/ whatever. Your wages will be divided into 3. 1/3 for your offspring if you have any, if you don't it will go to a general fund for the underprivilidged youth in the state you are housed. 1/3 will go to the victims of your crime or their families. It can never repay what you have done to them, but why should you profit from it. 1/6 will go to the state to pay for your lodging etc. 1/6 will go into a fund so that one day, should you be lucky enough to get out of prison, you will have a little start up money. Don't worry about commisary privledges, there aren't any. Any candy you want/ etc, can come from your family members.

Sounds a bit extreme, but then again, in my opinion, housing this scum and giving them better access to ammenities than some people that are free is extreme.

Remember, vote for me in 2008. A Gun in every house, a criminal in every cell.

[Guest Ghostrider]

Len,

I wouldn't give you grief because you have a different opinion. I would give you grief if your opinion were not supported by facts and logical thinking.

With that said, I disagree. I believe it IS the duty of the state to execute those who have demonstrated by their actions that they are not fit to live in society with any amount of punishment. Obviously, I don't believe that "rehab" works.

My point in my post was that our current system of "justice" is weighted so heavily towards the criminal that it cannot serve (at any level) as a deterrent to any crime. I feel our system MUST be changed to consider the victim AND the criminal equally, not weighting the system towards one or the other. Once the criminal is convicted - then punishment follows immediately. In capital cases, one or two appeals within a six month perios and if they fail, then you're out of here, right now. This is very close to what saintsfanbrian stated in his post.

I also believe that prisons shouldn't cost the taxpayers a dime. There is a way to do that, also, but it's cold and "heartless". There are ways to stop most all of the problems with the US, but it's going to require us, as a society, to "put up or shut up".

Now, you speak of "getting grief" I'm going to post this just once and let everyone here see who I "really" am. You're welcome to agree or disagree, it's just my thinking and my opinions... http://www.houseofdracos.com/prez

Grab a cold one and enjoy.

[Guest Len]

Ghostrider:

I've seen your "For President" website before, and as I recall, I commented that I agreed on your anti-stupidity platform. I still do! A little natural selection does a society good.

-L

[Cannon Fodder]

Len said:

4) Here's a thought: Capital Punishment would be legal, but the law would say this:

"5 years of from the date of conviction, the nearest surviving family member of the victim would be asked if they wanted the murderer executed or spend the remainder of his/her life behind bars. If the victim answers that they wish to see the murderer executed, then the state would arrange for the execution, but the family member would have to push the button/insert the needle/pull the switch."

I wonder what that would do to the execution rate?

I think that is a little to long to support the worthless, how about a week. Hell for that matter I would be willing to do it with my bare hands.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Cannon Fodder

[molonlabetn]

1) The people who did this deserve to die a slow horrible death.

Yes. Criminals deserve to suffer the same cruelties and fate as their victims.

2) The people who did this then deserve to serve an eternity on the wrong side of the River Styx.

Not for me to say... but I certainly wouldn't want to be on the same side as them, when it's all said and done!

3) That said, and I know I'm gonna get grief for this, I don't think the state should be in the business of killing people (except in the defense of the state at time of war) The state should set a higher standard. Public brutal executions did nothing to stem the violence of the old west, there is little to no evidence that capital punishment serves as a deterrent to anything today, CP costs WAY more than throwing someone in a hole for life, states without CP often have lower murder rates than states with CP, yada, yada, yada...

It sure does cut down on the repeat offenders though!

4) Here's a thought: Capital Punishment would be legal, but the law would say this:

"5 years of from the date of conviction, the nearest surviving family member of the victim would be asked if they wanted the murderer executed or spend the remainder of his/her life behind bars. If the victim answers that they wish to see the murderer executed, then the state would arrange for the execution, but the family member would have to push the button/insert the needle/pull the switch."

I wonder what that would do to the execution rate?

5 years is too long. I would say 48hrs perhaps...

I would also add, that if the family member did not complete the execution after the state handed them responsibility for the criminal, then they would be responsible for supervising and providing for them for the rest of their lives, not the tax-payers... it wasn't our decision to spare them, we shouldn't have to foot the bill.

If they want to be merciful, they can do so on their own dime. I would respect that.

[SkWaShDeM]

Bring back chain gangs, the black & white striped jumpsuits, and hard labor confinement. I see lots of trash on the side of I-26 that needs picking up. I also know where there are some big rocks that could be made into smaller ones to provide gravel to use while performing the endless road construction in this state. (=

As for capital punishment... the system just needs a lot of streamlining. Justice should be swift and definitive. Not bogged down by bureaucratic bull**** and feel-good politics.

[Cannon Fodder]

Bring back chain gangs, the black & white striped jumpsuits, and hard labor confinement. I see lots of trash on the side of I-26 that needs picking up.

Actually Sumner Co. had people in stripes picking up trash down a couple of roads the other day. I still say we need to put them in the field planting and harvesting plants like corn or soy for ethanol and for their own food, make these ****ers work for a living, since most of them never have. You don't work, you don't eat.

[saintsfanbrian]

That goes back to the cruel and unusual punishment thing that happened here in Memphis a long time ago with the Penal Farm. Used to be 100% self sufficient with surplus produce being sold to the schools. Between the unusual punishment and companies complaining because they could sell produce at reduced costs to the school, they had to stop.

I am 100% in favor of bringing it back though.

[Guest Len]

My reason for a five year waiting period is two-fold:

1) Some time for new evidence to come up (DNA, etc...) Don't want to kill the innocent.

2) Emotions on the part of the victim. Imagine this. You are the victim's family, the guy who killed your loved one is found guilty. It is up to you right now to say yea/nay on execution. You are angry and devastated. You choose "yea" and push the button. 5 years go by and you have forgiven the sin and now feel devastated you killed the killer. We need time to come to grips with our emotions in such cases. I pulled the 5 year number out of my rear end, I'm willing to be flexible on the exact time. I'm sure there are studies that indicate how long the usual person takes to go through the 5 stages of grief after a death. However long it is, they should not be made to decide until they reach stage 5 (acceptance.)

Enough of my psychobabble for today. It takes the justice system way more than 5 years to go through the appeal process anyway. Cant really speed it up much unless we spend the $ to hire more judges, build more courts, hire more investigators, researchers, DNA labs, etc... Everyone raise their hands who wants a tax increase to shorten the wait criminals have before they are convicted. No one?

[molonlabetn]

I would gladly accept a tax increase to be assured of the justice system speedily ridding society of its scum!

Most of us already spend an extra couple thousand dollars a year in preparation for having to deal with the criminal element, anyways...

Forgiveness is a wonderful thing, so is mercy to a repentant individual... But apathetically releasing a proven, un-reformed evil person, or allowing them to tie up cell-space and tax-dollars for no purpose other than someone's 'feelings' is exactly what has continually expounded this problem which we are currently faced with.