Denial of Handgun Purchase Because of Invalid DL No.

[Guest cnas122]

Ok, this may not be the proper section to post this, but it seemed the most relevant (since I was buying a firearm).  Today I tried to purchase a new pistol (probably my 100th) and my background search was denied because it said something like "invalid Driver's License No. or Suspended License".  Unfortunately I got a DUI in June and I now have a restricted drivers license.  However, I have purchased firearms since my arrest, but not since I got my restricted license.  

 

I'm an attorney and I have done a pretty thorough review of the TN gun laws.  Frankly, I can't figure this out.  I see no reason why a person couldn't buy a firearm with a restricted license....hell, some people don't even have drivers licenses and they own guns.  

 

Any thoughts on this?  My MAIN CONCERN is not the pistol, but I have several  NFA applications pending and I'm scared as hell that they might get zinged because of this.  

 

I know we have some NFA/ATF focused attorneys on the site.  Any help would be appreciated (from an another attorney or otherwise).

 

Thanks,

 

CCS

[RED333]

I am sure you have a Lawyer, you should ask them.

There are a few here that just might know why.

I do know if you are convected you will loose your CCP.

I think if on probation you can not buy a firearm.

[Raoul]

Well I'm thinking your DUI has probably pissed on your parade. No disrespect intended. I'm curious to see someone with a clue weigh in on this.

[eRay]

I just checked my Tennessee Instant Check System FFL dealers guidelines manual and it states that one of the reasons that they will deny a firearms purchase is conviction for an alcohol related offense within the last 12 months. My guess is this is your problem.

 

I decided to look this up as Oh Shoot will soon want to add it to his legal library.They are basing this on TCA 39-17-1316 (a) (1) which prohibits persons addicted to alcohol from purchasing a firearm. How they decided one dui qualifies as addicted to alcohol is beyond me but that seems to be the TICS position.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Eray

[TNWNGR]

Yep and if I recall correctly it'll cancel out your HCP if you have one for a while, but that may have changed.. As to the NFA item's with the DUI conviction, well my suspicion is your probably going to have a set back. But the good news is all of this is a temporary thing, contingent upon no further DUI's etc. Pretty tough experience for you but people do cope. Best of luck.  

[Oh Shoot]

I am sure you have a Lawyer, you should ask them.
There are a few here that just might know why.
I do know if you are convected you will loose your CCP.
I think if on probation you can not buy a firearm.

 

He says he is an attorney. And no, I know of no federal or state sanction against buying or owning firearms for being on probation for a conviction, unless it were a disqualifying conviction, which DUI is not.

 

If properly reported, any Class A misdemeanor causes your HCP to be suspended for duration of sentence, which would include any probation as far as I know, which is the full 11/29 for a first conviction of DUI.  However, this should not affect your ability to buy or own firearms.
 
What I don't understand --

 

1.  is the restricted DL what you presented as ID to the FFL? And is it the same number as your previous full status one?

2.  did you appeal the denial?

 

Assuming you appealed, you should get feedback in whatever time span it is, 15 working days or so I think. Or it might be overturned without having to do anything.

 

- OS
 

edit: just reread eRay's post, glossed over that in a hurry,  sorry.  Bit hard to believe they are contending that, but if true I suppose that is the answer, though this must be new. Thing is, if they are going to maintain that view, means you technically can't legally even own the guns one already does under federal law, as 39-17-1307 says state is supposed to enforce that also,  eh?

 

Also, there is additional irony, as you could probably go to any other state that only uses NICS, and purchase a long gun from FFL.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[VERO1]

I find it hard to believe that an attorney needs to come here for advice. Where do we send our bill?

[Oh Shoot]

I find it hard to believe that an attorney needs to come here for advice.

 

Well, I can understand, since it's not apparently a matter of law, but of a TICS "policy" that apparently nobody has ever heard of before, at least on TGO.

 

Matter of fact, if the reason proves to be accurate,  OP should challenge it in court, since he should easily be able to do it for just the low cost of the filing fee. If they can do this, they can also rule that you're a psychotic because you're got script for antidepressants, who knows what else for c'sakes.

 

- OS

Edited January 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[JohnC]

Challenge it and report back. I'd like to know if this can stand.... 

[hipower]

Interesting and somewhat scary story. Especially as to how it possibly can be applied as and "addiction" and cause revocation of HCP as well as ownership rights.

 

Could this be some of the fallout from the attempt from lib gov't and CDC to further the cause?

[E4 No More]

I find it hard to believe that an attorney needs to come here for advice. Where do we send our bill?

I find this response a little bit rude. Attorneys have specialities just like the medical profession. Would you expect your family doctor to know how to do neurosurgery? For all you know he could be a tax or real estate attorney, and as Oh Shoot points out this could not be a legal question.

[RWF]

I get denied from time to time and do have PIN #, I just appeal and pick up my firearm later. as far as the NFA items they have never been a issue. the state as I recall looks at more items than the fed's. now it does take me about a extra 2 weeks on the NFA items because my finger prints are on the federal data base. 

[Guest livefreeordie1]

Don't drink and drive.  My wife and kids have to drive the same roads you do.

[JohnC]

I get denied from time to time and do have PIN #, I just appeal and pick up my firearm later. as far as the NFA items they have never been a issue. the state as I recall looks at more items than the fed's. now it does take me about a extra 2 weeks on the NFA items because my finger prints are on the federal data base. 

 

What is their excuse for this?

 

I hear it so often that I feel it is a form of harassment from the TBI now.

[RWF]

What is their excuse for this?

 

I hear it so often that I feel it is a form of harassment from the TBI now.

it can be very random, buy 2 or 3 guns (months apart)  then told I can not buy a 22RF. my toy store owner wrote the TIC'S on my behalf. as I recall it was something like, they where training the new personal. that was about 3 years ago. then it stop using my PIN# and all was well and it started again this year.

this year I bought 2 lowers and all was well then next time denied, went home called the store with my PIN when went and picked up my pistol.

I no longer get upset about it. like said sooo very random. sometimes using my PIN causes long waits because the clerk does not know what to do will it. (just my 2ct)

also its easier for me to buy a suppresser etc than a firearm in TN anyway.

[DaveTN]

From some Tennessee attorneys.....

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/will-a-dui-conviction-in-tn-prevent-me-from-purcha-1631984.html

[TNWNGR]

Don't drink and drive.  My wife and kids have to drive the same roads you do.

I don't condone the DUI either and FWIW put my fair share of such in jail. However, the OP presented a good question which should concern any of use.

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

That's very strange from TBI, can I assume they (TBI) told you?.  I understand if you the buyer called but all my denials have just said DENIED, no reason and no need to call b/c they won't tell us dealers nothing.  As Oh Shoot and others stated, just appeal... all of mine have been stupid stuff like same name, bad records, etc.. took a little legwork but all weapons picked up on approved TBI email sent to me telling me to do so - all within 30 days but I believe they have 30 days to responde.. average has been 10-15.

 

The appeal form has to be downloaded from their website -> http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/firearm_check/firearm_docs/tics_appeal_form.pdf

 

You'll need your TICS Transaction ID from the dealer if you don't already have that.

 

Are the NFA transfers to your direct name or a trust? 

 

Good luck

[Oh Shoot]

From some Tennessee attorneys.....

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/will-a-dui-conviction-in-tn-prevent-me-from-purcha-1631984.html

 

Yeah, great resource all right, three responses and all three patently incorrect.

 

"David Louis Raybin
Criminal Defense Attorney - Nashville, TN
... but you cannot possess a firearm while on probation which precludes from purchasing one."

 

Wrong.

 

------------------

 

"Robert Lee Vogel
Criminal Defense Attorney - Knoxville, TN

 

As far as the firearm is concerned, it is my understanding that only a felony prevents a person from purchasing a firearm."

 

Wrong.

 

----------------------

 

"John Barnes
Criminal Defense Attorney - Knoxville, TN

.....Also, you will not be eligible to get a handgun carry permit for 5 years after your DUI conviction."

 

Wrong.

 

- OS

Edited January 13, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

Rats, meant to edit, not quote, double tap.

 

Edited January 13, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[JohnC]

it can be very random, buy 2 or 3 guns (months apart)  then told I can not buy a 22RF. my toy store owner wrote the TIC'S on my behalf. as I recall it was something like, they where training the new personal. that was about 3 years ago. then it stop using my PIN# and all was well and it started again this year.

this year I bought 2 lowers and all was well then next time denied, went home called the store with my PIN when went and picked up my pistol.

I no longer get upset about it. like said sooo very random. sometimes using my PIN causes long waits because the clerk does not know what to do will it. (just my 2ct)

also its easier for me to buy a suppresser etc than a firearm in TN anyway.

 

Yeah, this seems more like harassment. If you do not have a felony, domestic violence or been adjudicated mentally ill or whatever, I see no reason at all that anyone should be denied. Something seriously needs to change to put a stop to these repetitive false denials. 

[JohnC]

That's very strange from TBI, can I assume they (TBI) told you?.  I understand if you the buyer called but all my denials have just said DENIED, no reason and no need to call b/c they won't tell us dealers nothing.  As Oh Shoot and others stated, just appeal... all of mine have been stupid stuff like same name, bad records, etc.. took a little legwork but all weapons picked up on approved TBI email sent to me telling me to do so - all within 30 days but I believe they have 30 days to responde.. average has been 10-15.

 

The appeal form has to be downloaded from their website -> http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/firearm_check/firearm_docs/tics_appeal_form.pdf

 

You'll need your TICS Transaction ID from the dealer if you don't already have that.

 

Are the NFA transfers to your direct name or a trust? 

 

Good luck

 

Wow, I'd be pissed if I had to wait 15 to 30 days!

 

All the denials I've heard about were overturned within an hour to a day even. 

 

Maybe it helped that the FFL I had a chat with used a fax machine to send appeals to the TICS for his customers. 

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

Most I've had John required the buyer to obtain affidavits from local LEO office which took time on their part. I'd expect if it's something TBI could clear they would but that hasn't been my case. These have been proved you're not John Doe #1 from Kalamazoo or your social is 123 not 321, etc.

[Guest cnas122]

Thanks for your replies.  As for the one sarcastic one about me being an attorney...not appreciated.  I'm not a criminal or a firearms attorney...I'm just familiar with reading statutes.  But your heart-felt advice is well taken.

 

I am curious about whether or not being on probation for 11 months 29 days would have an impact on it.  I am not addicted to alcohol...just made a bad decision one night and decided to drive.  I tried to buy the pistol at Bill Goodman's over the weekend and I don't think I can track down the dealer so that I can make an appeal.  I suppose the alternative would be to go to another toy store, put in an application, and see if I get the same result.  Then I could do an appeal if I was denied again.  I suppose my last worry is that I don't want to make too much of a stink with the powers that be in case I somehow become "flagged" as a trouble maker.

 

This is a first for me and a bit concerning, because I typically purchase one or two firearms a month and send in multiple NFA apps a year.  I may call the attorney who set up my gun trust and see if he has any thoughts on the subject.  

[Ugly]

I read the quip about being an attorney as being a joke, and wouldn't be offended if I were one.

This topic could be uncovering one of the many ways the powers that be are using to reduce firearm ownership. After all, they know what's best for us and following the law is mostly accepted if you look at the top.

Good luck with this issue!