Die issue - not bumping shoulder

[TNMTBik3r]

Plan to call or email RCBS but wanted to see if anyone here has encountered a similar issue.

I started using a RCBS X-Die .223 a few months back to try and avoid trimming brass as often. I never had issues with the brass in my AR carbine, but when I built this AR pistol have had a few jams, failure to go fully into battery. OAL under 2.250" so not a length issue.

Today I decided to figure out what was going on. I have a Hornady headspace gauge that I initially used to help set my other die sets but the X-Die was just set to cam over and shoulder setback never measured. So today I measured some 2x fired brass fresh from my pistol. Measurement was 1.456".

Again the X die is set to just cam over the turret press. I ran the brass into the die then measured with the headspace gauge. Still measured 1.456"! Tested with a couple other pieces and same result, shoulder is not being set back. I grabbed my standard RCBS FL sizer die, it just kisses the shellholder, ran the brass through it and measured 1.453" - perfect.

I tested with and without the X-Die mandrel that helps with case growth. The shoulder is not being set back with normal die setup. I turned the die two full turns past camming over, to the point it is not possible to cam over at all, and was able to get a slight shoulder setback to 1.455".

Something isn't working right with this die. RCBS says the X-Die works as a standard FL sizer with or without the mandrel.

Loading on a RCBS turret press. Hornady headspace gauge is zeroed on my calipers, brass is rotated 5 full circles to ensure accurate reading. Lube used is Dillon lanolin based and Hornady OneShot (tested both). RCBS standard shellholder.

So, am I messing up and just not seeing it or is there an issue with this die?

Edited January 11, 2015 by jonathon1289

[TNMTBik3r]

Realized I entered the wrong measurement after turning the X-die two extra full turns. Shoulder set back was .001, headspace gauge showed 1.455". This was two full turns past cam over, not a realistic setting and not enough setback anyways.

[TNMTBik3r]

Thanks for the info Dolomite. I am not too worried about case life so I full length resize everything now (used to neck size my 30-06 brass, switched back to FL with a .002 setback).

 

Played around with the die adjustments again this morning and not able to get any shoulder setback. It pretty much has to be a die issue, IF it is a FL die as labeled there should be some setback when set to cam over. 

[Westwindmike]

Maybe your shellholder is too tall.

[TNMTBik3r]

Called RCBS, they said so the shoulder isn't being set back with a 1/4 turn past touching cam over? I said no, right now am at a full turn past cam over, 3 full threads extending below the turret head, and getting 0 setback according to the gauge - ok, send the die in for replacement.

 

Will see what happens when I get it back.

[reloader80]

I personally have run into this problem more than once, every time it was with an rcbs die. My first one was a .223 bolt action I took that die to a machine shop and has .020 removed from the die. I thought it was an extremely tight chamber,  works perfectly now. The next one was a .30-06, same problem with  that one. Bolt lacked a little bit of closing once again had .020 removed worked fine spoke with rcbs after this they informed me it must be an isolated problem, you know me being the only one with such a problem. I must not have learned my lesson so I got a set of .308 dies guess what same old problem once again so I returned those to midwayusa and ordered a set of Dillon .308 worked great straight out of the box. the last time was just a few months ago with a set of .270 dies that I took to a buddys work and put in a lay and removed .020 . I will not be buying anymore rcbs dies everything else rcbs seems to be fine just some quality control with the dies. a friend of mine that lives out of state has had this same problem on multiple times as well. hope this helps you and also hope rcbs gets its act together and once again produces the dies I know they can, because they have in the past.

[leroy]

I like Redding dies for the rifle calibers... They do an excellent job...

 

leroy

[TNMTBik3r]

RCBS tech called me a few days ago, and the die arrived back yesterday. 

 

Tech said the die measured fine in their testing, using a single stage press he was seeing sufficient shoulder setback when measured with a precision mic. He went ahead and took 0.003" off the bottom of the die. They also sent me a new washer for my turret press, said they changed the washer thickness recently to help remove some of the play, and that this washer may help even without the die modification. 

 

I set the die up this morning, touched the shellholder and then 1/4 turn to cam over. Measured 5 pieces of brass then ran through the die, all measured 0.005" setback. Looks like I will be good now, just have to get the die fully adjusted and start resizing all this fired brass sitting here.

[gregintenn]

 

Tech said the die measured fine in their testing, using a single stage press he was seeing sufficient shoulder setback when measured with a precision mic. He went ahead and took 0.003" off the bottom of the die.

Even though it wasn't a die problem? Alrighty then! :shrug:

[wolverine]

Be aware of the RCBS turret press and the 0.005" turret wobble,sent back to Midway and got the Redding T7 turret. The T7 made reloading enjoyable again

[Caster]

This is why a Wilson case gauge is worth 3 times the price you pay for it.  You know then and there what's going on.