The United States will normalize diplomatic relations with Cuba, open embassy in Havana

[btq96r]

No.  But they absolutely can park their boats there.

 

The complete strategic picture has to be looked at. 

 

They can park their boats at any port where the host nation allows it.  What's your point?

[E4 No More]

IIRC, Cuba is  Russian vacation spot, so they've been parking their boats there all along. They just haven't parked their nukes there...unless Oblamo screws that up too.

[R_Bert]

They can park their boats at any port where the host nation allows it.  What's your p

Subs, nukes, and other warships rarely are allowed

 

 

 

 

IIRC, Cuba is  Russian vacation spot, so they've been parking their boats there all along. They just haven't parked their nukes there...unless Oblamo screws that up too.

 

Just a few -

 

Nukes  (they already can park in Cuba, just haven't recently)

 

re-opened bases

 

increased technical advisors (can be in any org in Cuban.gov)

 

increased elint

 

 

 

Really..... ??     Putin was head of KGB.  He absolutely knows how to screw with the US, and how to do it behind the scenes.  As SWJ noted, Cuba is their playground.  They will gleefully use the advantages they already have with the Castro regime. Heck, He can do it publically - I mentioned the two programs above as just one example in the last months.  Right now they are openly effing us over in diplomatic and cooperative relations in S. Africa, and several Latin and Asian countries

Edited December 19, 2014 by R_Bert

[E4 No More]

Just a few -

 

Nukes  (they already can park in Cuba, just haven't recently)

 

re-opened bases

 

increased technical advisors (can be in any org in Cuban.gov)

 

increased elint

 

 

 

Really..... ??     Putin was head of KGB.  He absolutely knows how to screw with the US, and how to do it behind the scenes.  As SWJ noted, Cuba is their playground.  They will gleefully use the advantages they already have with the Castro regime. Heck, He can do it publically - I mentioned the two programs above as just one example in the last months.  Right now they are openly effing us over in diplomatic and cooperative relations in S. Africa, and several Latin and Asian countries

But Putin doesn't want the missle shield in Poland either. By doing such as you suggest then he would get the shield in return.

[R_Bert]

But Putin doesn't want the missle shield in Poland either. By doing such as you suggest then he would get the shield in return.

 

 

Perhaps, but probably not. Right now we ain't got the balls or the influence to do that, and the European Union would absolutely block it. Cuba..... is not restricted by EU or any similar agreement (unlike Poland).

 

But, even sans nukes, it will greatly amp up the RF interest in the region, and further destabilize the US-RF standings which will have a *much* bigger strategic and economic impact than just booz, cigars, and child-prostitution.

 

BTW, this year, bad blood has already hammered START-2 extensions / SORT and killed a $1B+ cooperative effort in transparency for nuclear weapons and nuclear materials monitoring. (the US nonproliferation program is nearly in chaos right now.....and NNSA is reorganizing their effort).

 

For us, it is a Loose-Loose. The Russians take this seriously, and personally.

 

 

 

(Bert has errands & Christmas shopping to do. Y'all carry on) 

Edited December 19, 2014 by R_Bert

[mikegideon]

Nukes are icky. We won't be deploying any as long as Puffy Nuts is controlling the military.

[kieefer]

Nukes are icky. We won't be deploying any as long as Puffy Nuts is controlling the military.

Nukes? We don't need no stinking nukes. Sternly worded letters are our new foreign policy.

 

 

U.S. Nukes Down 85%, From 31,255 to 4,804

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/state-dept-us-nukes-down-85-31255-4804_821888.html

 

 

:surrender: .

Edited December 19, 2014 by kieefer

[R_Bert]

Rubio.  It's worth the 15 minutes. 

 

http://therightscoop.com/listen-to-marco-rubios-fantastic-interview-with-mark-levin-on-cuba/

[Dustbuster]

Cuba has amazing golf courses cigars and more. I've had Canadian friends visit and swear it outdoes Hawaii ten fold for fun.Cuba will turn to crap quickly as greedy sharks try to slam it w our way of everything overnight. Drugs gangs and more will prosper quickly. Watch....

[R_Bert]

Cuba has amazing golf courses cigars and more. I've had Canadian friends visit and swear it outdoes Hawaii ten fold for fun.Cuba will turn to crap quickly as greedy sharks try to slam it w our way of everything overnight. Drugs gangs and more will prosper quickly. Watch....

yup.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/12/19/castro-to-pocket-92-of-worker-salaries-from-foreign-companies/

Edited December 20, 2014 by R_Bert

[kieefer]

Cuba has amazing golf courses cigars and more. I've had Canadian friends visit and swear it outdoes Hawaii ten fold for fun.Cuba will turn to crap quickly as greedy sharks try to slam it w our way of everything overnight. Drugs gangs and more will prosper quickly. Watch....

Our way? Surely you don't mean free elections and capitalism.
Nevermind, king zero is not suggesting any of that now is he?

[btq96r]

But, even sans nukes, it will greatly amp up the RF interest in the region, and further destabilize the US-RF standings which will have a *much* bigger strategic and economic impact than just booz, cigars, and child-prostitution.

 

BTW, this year, bad blood has already hammered START-2 extensions / SORT and killed a $1B+ cooperative effort in transparency for nuclear weapons and nuclear materials monitoring. (the US nonproliferation program is nearly in chaos right now.....and NNSA is reorganizing their effort).

 

For us, it is a Loose-Loose. The Russians take this seriously, and personally.

 

I get that Putin isn't someone to take lightly, but he's got his own domestic problems to solve for the moment.  He also hasn't said a word about Cuba that I can find, and he isn't shy about lambasting us for...well anything.  He has an economy falling out from under him to worry about, a new region in Crimea to administrate, propping up the separatists in east Ukraine... us re-establishing diplomatic relations with Cuba has to be near the bottom of his worry list.

 

 

Nukes? We don't need no stinking nukes. Sternly worded letters are our new foreign policy.

 

 

U.S. Nukes Down 85%, From 31,255 to 4,804

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/state-dept-us-nukes-down-85-31255-4804_821888.html

 

 

:surrender: .

 

4,804 nuclear weapons isn't enough?  Just how many do you think we need?  I'm all for getting rid of more.  There expensive to maintain- over $20 billion a year- and the only ones that are operationally sound are the submarine based ones.  The ICBM program is an embarrassment and the bomber based nukes aren't reliable enough to penetrate a decent air defense system if they can't fire cruise missiles from afar like deep targets inside Russia and China would require.

 

The numbers game on nuclear weapons isn't valid anymore.

[Ugly]

Btr-Why defend this traitor? There is nothing good for this country that he's doing. Every single move has been to hurt us.

 

Do you think we'll save 20B a year? Hahahahahahaha

Like the money we saved with the shutter of our space program? Buwahahahah

 

Get your national pride on with a glance at the debt clock! Sorry to remind everyone else of our reality.

 

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[R_Bert]

I get that Putin isn't someone to take lightly, but he's got his own domestic problems to solve for the moment.  He also hasn't said a word about Cuba that I can find, and he isn't shy about lambasting us for...well anything.  He has an economy falling out from under him to worry about, a new region in Crimea to administrate, propping up the separatists in east Ukraine... us re-establishing diplomatic relations with Cuba has to be near the bottom of his worry list.

 

 

 

4,804 nuclear weapons isn't enough?  Just how many do you think we need?  I'm all for getting rid of more.  There expensive to maintain- over $20 billion a year- and the only ones that are operationally sound are the submarine based ones.  The ICBM program is an embarrassment and the bomber based nukes aren't reliable enough to penetrate a decent air defense system if they can't fire cruise missiles from afar like deep targets inside Russia and China would require.

 

The numbers game on nuclear weapons isn't valid anymore.

You really need to stay current on international affairs and our own domestic nuclear program if you intend to speak with any authority.

 

------ Russia several months ago, wrote off $32B of Cuban debt, and expanded relations.  The primary Russian emissary to Cuba is also in charge of the Russian nuclear weapons and space  program.

 

BTW, Since the US all but unilaterally reduced its stockpile under treaty agreement with RF who has only minimally reduced its nuclear stockpile.... yes..... Numbers do count.

 

....and....since all the bad blood I have already mentioned, out-year budget analysis submitted by our NP & Congress is swinging back towards growth, not further reduction (a change in attitude on inventory).

 

My analysis - You are not even reading or listening to the materials offered above by myself & others. You have no clue how much skin Russia has in the game (or how naïve the Valerie-Jarret run administration is, especially with Kerry at State). The Russian Federation already have an investment,  It is orders of magnitude more than the US, They already have nearly 70 years of experience there, and they mean to remain the dominant outside political influence on the island.

 

 Putin, while dealing with domestic issues, is also enjoying a approval rating of nearly 3xObama.

 

Thus, You also underestimate the level of RF nationalism (which historically runs deep even with despots in place) , the priorities they place (war capability over economics  -  "protect the Rodina at all costs" is still very much the heart of the matter - Russians are very used to suffering to protect their national interest - much more than US citizens).  You also do not realize how much the RF fears / distrusts the US, even at the individual level (I worked for 15+ years with Russians in the nonproliferation programs). 

 

They, unlike the Obama administration -  are playing for keeps. It won't be Soviet style (although the Soviets are still running a lot of it, under new name), but it won't be fair, honest, or completely rational either - they will apply what they already know about subterfuge and oppression, and are adding to that the economic lessons learned from the Chinese Communist model.    

 

So, in regards to Cuba - Don't be naïve about the grave stupidity of this particular diplomatic blunder. It is a significant domino that just got tipped. And Cuba has stated just yesterday, that they are changing NOTHING (except a 92% tax on wages from foreign owned companies). Human rights will not improve in Cuba sans entire regime change.

 

SO - disconnect from pollyannic adhesion to Obama/Jarret fantasy, and take time to consider the relationships, political ideologies, from  a Cuban/Russian perspective. It should scare you sh!tless if you do it right.

Edited December 20, 2014 by R_Bert

[R_Bert]

 

There expensive to maintain- over $20 billion a year-

 

a mere drop in the bucket compared to the abominations of waste at Departments of Agriculture, Education, and Human Services.  Fix the $Ts, then worry about the $Bs

Edited December 20, 2014 by R_Bert

[kieefer]

Rubio. It's worth the 15 minutes.

http://therightscoop.com/listen-to-marco-rubios-fantastic-interview-with-mark-levin-on-cuba/

I hope everyone takes time to listen to this and get a clue to what conservatives are saying about this deal.

This is by no means the liar-and-Chiefs Berlin moment which the left is spewing.

I also cant believe so many 2nd Amendment supporters are thinking that this is good for America.

[btq96r]

Btr-Why defend this traitor? There is nothing good for this country that he's doing. Every single move has been to hurt us.

 

Do you think we'll save 20B a year? Hahahahahahaha

Like the money we saved with the shutter of our space program? Buwahahahah

 

Get your national pride on with a glance at the debt clock! Sorry to remind everyone else of our reality.

 

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

I'm not saying we'd save $20 billion a year, just pointing out how much it costs.  The country is still protected by a nuclear shield if we trim the fat a bit. 

 

 

You really need to stay current on international affairs and our own domestic nuclear program if you intend to speak with any authority.

 

------ Russia several months ago, wrote off $32B of Cuban debt, and expanded relations.  The primary Russian emissary to Cuba is also in charge of the Russian nuclear weapons and space  program.

 

BTW, Since the US all but unilaterally reduced its stockpile under treaty agreement with RF who has only minimally reduced its nuclear stockpile.... yes..... Numbers do count.

 

....and....since all the bad blood I have already mentioned, out-year budget analysis submitted by our NP & Congress is swinging back towards growth, not further reduction (a change in attitude on inventory).

 

Unless you get some special briefing from the National Security Council, we're both just two guys on the internet with a difference of opinion.

 

Is there a point that the guy who went to Cuba is also one of their defense officials?  Our own SECDEF and sub-cabinet officials make visits to countries and meet with their leaders all the time, it's not news.  Unless you think there is some nefarious scheme to put Russia's nuclear weapons in Cuban territory again, why they big to-do?

 

As far as the debt write off, the Russians know they wouldn't get back that amount- slight of half of Cuba's GDP- anytime soon, so why not.  It bought them some more good will in future negotiations. 

 

I'll say again, it's not about how many nukes we have, but how we deploy and use them.  Our targeting systems are pretty advanced these days, and make tactical nukes a lot more useful than strategic ones with no need to keep up in a count with the Russians, or anybody else as long as we have the capability we want to have.  We should stock and deploy our inventory based on our needs, not any round count from the other guys.

 

 

My analysis - You are not even reading or listening to the materials offered above by myself & others. You have no clue how much skin Russia has in the game (or how naïve the Valerie-Jarret run administration is, especially with Kerry at State). The Russian Federation already have an investment,  It is orders of magnitude more than the US, They already have nearly 70 years of experience there, and they mean to remain the dominant outside political influence on the island.

 

 Putin, while dealing with domestic issues, is also enjoying a approval rating of nearly 3xObama.

 

Thus, You also underestimate the level of RF nationalism (which historically runs deep even with despots in place) , the priorities they place (war capability over economics  -  "protect the Rodina at all costs" is still very much the heart of the matter - Russians are very used to suffering to protect their national interest - much more than US citizens).  You also do not realize how much the RF fears / distrusts the US, even at the individual level (I worked for 15+ years with Russians in the nonproliferation programs). 

 

They, unlike the Obama administration -  are playing for keeps. It won't be Soviet style (although the Soviets are still running a lot of it, under new name), but it won't be fair, honest, or completely rational either - they will apply what they already know about subterfuge and oppression, and are adding to that the economic lessons learned from the Chinese Communist model.    

 

I'm reading and listening to what you're posting, but it ain't blowing my skirt up.  Rubio's interview with Levin was particularly disappointing.  The only valid point was how we let go some pretty bad people, but that happens with many reconciliations.  The rest was all emotional appeal that comes from his conservative constituency down in Florida.  But is Cuba really worse than other countries we have normal relations and trade with like China or Saudi Arabia? 

 

I also get Russian nationalism, I just don't think it's enough for us to be paranoid over.  Cautious, sure.  But not paranoid.

 

So, in regards to Cuba - Don't be naïve about the grave stupidity of this particular diplomatic blunder. It is a significant domino that just got tipped. And Cuba has stated just yesterday, that they are changing NOTHING (except a 92% tax on wages from foreign owned companies). Human rights will not improve in Cuba sans entire regime change.

 

SO - disconnect from pollyannic adhesion to Obama/Jarret fantasy, and take time to consider the relationships, political ideologies, from  a Cuban/Russian perspective. It should scare you sh!tless if you do it right.

 

How have human rights been in Cuba during the embargo years?  They won't get better if we keep up the embargo and only communicate to them through whatever country we go through for message running.

 

I'm analyzing the situation, still not scared.

Edited December 20, 2014 by btq96r

[R_Bert]

Carry on. Viva Revolucion.

[JPR1959]

As reported by Breitbart:

Just one day before President Obama announced sweeping changes that would allow potential American investment in Cuba, the Cuban government apparently had begun preparing itself by announcing new measures that would allow Cubans who work for foreign companies to keep only 8% of their salaries.

In an official announcement in state newspaper Granma, government officials announced a system in which employees who work for corporations with foreign capital will be paid two Cuban Pesos for every Convertible Cuban Peso (CUC) the corporation actually pays them. The Convertible Peso (CUP) is almost exclusively for the use of tourists and is of significantly greater value; one CUC is the equivalent of an American dollar and the equivalent of 26.5 CUPs. The other 24 CUPs Cuban workers will not receive amount to 92% of their salaries.

 

As Raúl Castro noted in his speech, the Cuban government made no concessions in this recent negotiation with the United States, save the freedom of Gross and one other American agent whom President Obama did not name, which leaves it open to sanctioning American companies who dare attempt to do business on the island as they see fit.

[R_Bert]

 

As reported by Breitbart:

 

Just one day before President Obama announced sweeping changes that would allow potential American investment in Cuba, the Cuban government apparently had begun preparing itself by announcing new measures that would allow Cubans who work for foreign companies to keep only 8% of their salaries.

In an official announcement in state newspaper Granma, government officials announced a system in which employees who work for corporations with foreign capital will be paid two Cuban Pesos for every Convertible Cuban Peso (CUC) the corporation actually pays them. The Convertible Peso (CUP) is almost exclusively for the use of tourists and is of significantly greater value; one CUC is the equivalent of an American dollar and the equivalent of 26.5 CUPs. The other 24 CUPs Cuban workers will not receive amount to 92% of their salaries.

 

As Raúl Castro noted in his speech, the Cuban government made no concessions in this recent negotiation with the United States, save the freedom of Gross and one other American agent whom President Obama did not name, which leaves it open to sanctioning American companies who dare attempt to do business on the island as they see fit.

Please.  Refrain from interjecting reality into this discussion.

[JPR1959]

Please remember after all is said and done, Cuba is still a communist country.  Maybe this agreement will mean nothing more than shipping the last bit of our manufacturing there where things can be made for pennies and SOLD to us for tens of dollars.  Sounds like a great idea to me.  :surrender:

[Ugly]

8 % of their income is so generous for their dear leader. I bet ours has that in his sights too.

And the purge continues. Castro probably doesn't want the terrorist so we gotta let em go

http://www.news4jax.com/news/us-world-news/us-repatriates-4-more-guantanamo-detainees/30332390 Edited December 20, 2014 by Ugly

[bersaguy]

Make a deal with the Devil and you will surely receive a special place in HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Jmho

[R_Bert]

And speaking of devils making deals -

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/19/vladimir-putin-invites-north-korea-kim-jong-un-Moscow

 

Moscow is serious about rekindling the Despot Club, and they are serious about getting under skin of US.

 

But their dealing with NORKS is not totally unusual. 

 

In one Russian city, they once booked us in the same hotel as a group of NORKS who were training on reactor operations or something (only hotel in town).  It was hilarious - sort of - 

 

In the hotel (we usually had relatively free run a hotel & city), they treated us (both groups) like prisoners on lockdown. Separate floors, attendant/guard posted, separate meal times in separate rooms, allotted lobby hours, and of course transport restrictions. The NORKS were afraid to even look at us through a window.

 

It ought to be interesting to see how the Castros handle the increased exposure their lower comrades receive.

Edited December 21, 2014 by R_Bert

[kieefer]

With all the negative news, communist-race-baiting-pandering, cops getting executed, MSM distorting the truth it made my day finding this story, one you will most likely not hear about except on Fox News.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2881906/Ho-ho-ho-George-Bush-dresses-Santa-hand-toys-children-s-hospital-visit-bodyguards-went-elves.html#ixzz3MSwQmnDr%20